Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Zbynek]

“Can our younger players, who are part of the group, can they continue to grow?

???????????????????????

 

[eXile3]

No he’s right (he also wasn’t GM then). They did not move Kadri (24 years old), JVR (25), Gardiner (24) for picks as rebuild moves. Nor did they move Bozak (28) or Komarov (28) in ‘rebuilding’ trades.

They didn’t need to, those rosters were already awful. Matthew’s was 1OV, Nylander 4, Marner 6? You don’t get those picks while having a good team.

 

[chethejet]

Dubas knows he needs to get younger more talent to develop and this will take 3 years or 2 more years of deals to finally have the prospect train in full motion. Pens may have top 10 pick in each round plus what they have and add in Petts trade, Clearly Dubas will move players in the off season for more ammunition. It has to happen and Dubas knows this is the way to go here.

 

[Andy99]

Gretz is reading HF Boards…everything we’ve all been saying lol…

Some random thoughts on the Penguins

Some thoughts on Jesse Puljujarvi, Drew O’Connor, Tristan Jarry and Mike Sullivan.

www.pensburgh.com

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Hearing how things are going in OTt, I really think they'd take EK back for a decent price. IMO Dubi should be looking to unload him there ASAP.

 

[eXile3]

If you’re not competing for one of the 16 playoff spots then you should be competing for a top 5 pick.

If you’re doing neither it’s a recipe for failure. Considering there’s only 32 teams it takes a special kind of mediocrity to accomplish this.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

They didn’t need to, those rosters were already awful. Matthew’s was 1OV, Nylander 4, Marner 6? You don’t get those picks while having a good team.

I simply was affirming what he said. Regardless of if it is an apt comparison or if it worked out for the Leafs (I’m not sure of either)…

He is absolutely correct they kept a nucleus of young-ish to not young guys on the roster while they were bad that they could’ve moved for additional assets.

 

[Andy99]

I don’t like Kan and think he doesn’t really know hockey, but there’s truth to this…said something similar on his podcast (it’s coming from other more knowledgeable hockey people lol)…we have a lot of low IQ players and have previously obtained a lot of those in the past (see Kapanen)….so if you’re wondering why many players play worse here than they do elsewhere, this is a decent explanation…it’s hard to find high IQ players with speed who are available for trade or aren’t overpriced in FA…so the answer is that Sullivan must change his ways lol…this is also an explanation for why Sid and G like playing for Sullivan and might not want him fired…

Analysis: Are Dubas and Sullivan on Same Page? Did Letang Throw Shade?

The Pittsburgh Penguins’ overall trajectory was always going to be down before it could go up. Such is the nature of salary cap sports run by human beings who must look forward and not make decisions with the benefit of perfect hindsight. Yet several factors are specifically crushing this...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

 

[Khelandros]

So I guess Sully still has his job. Now that unseen forces have caused this rash of blown leads, which never happened before this year, who else but SuperSully can fix this problem?


So who sits: Pickering/Shea/St. I? I'm guessing the latter.

St. Ivany, Pickering, and Ponomarev are all waiver excempt. Some one will need to be sent down, not just sat.

 

[Gurglesons]

Depends how lucky the Pens get with the draft. Any idiot can make a #1 or #2 overall selection and not f*** that up.

If the Pens don't get lottery luck then yeah Dubas' job gets harder and he hasn't show any aptitude for being able to navigate that kind of rebuild.

Dubas had a 1st, 4th, 7th and 8th overall pick when he took over the Leafs and won a grand total of one playoff series.

Also, just for clarity since 2014, one first overall pick has won a cup and it was Ekblad last season.

They've played in 3 SCFs and they were the two most recent ones.

So Dubas is basically going to be here for ten more years?

Dubas has already screwed the pooch. The Penguins are in no man's land and he's likely toast within the next 4-5 years based on his complete ineptitude. He'll probably feel the pain towards the end of Sid's career and will make some stupid ass EK65 type trades.

 

[BusinessGoose]

If the roadmap to relevancy was a three to five year plan, then everyone would be doing that?

I'm not sold on Dubas. Nor like 75% of the GMs

 

[SEALBound]

Gretz is reading HF Boards…everything we’ve all been saying lol…

Some random thoughts on the Penguins

Some thoughts on Jesse Puljujarvi, Drew O’Connor, Tristan Jarry and Mike Sullivan.

www.pensburgh.com

Sometimes I wonder if I should become a writer and just use a ChatGPT prompt to scour HFPens and shit out an article. I'd only charge $4.99/mo.

I don’t like Kan and think he doesn’t really know hockey, but there’s truth to this…said something similar on his podcast (it’s coming from other more knowledgeable hockey people lol)…we have a lot of low IQ players and have previously obtained a lot of those in the past (see Kapanen)….so if you’re wondering why many players play worse here than they do elsewhere, this is a decent explanation…it’s hard to find high IQ players with speed who are available for trade or aren’t overpriced in FA…so the answer is that Sullivan must change his ways lol…this is also an explanation for why Sid and G like playing for Sullivan and might not want him fired…

Analysis: Are Dubas and Sullivan on Same Page? Did Letang Throw Shade?

The Pittsburgh Penguins’ overall trajectory was always going to be down before it could go up. Such is the nature of salary cap sports run by human beings who must look forward and not make decisions with the benefit of perfect hindsight. Yet several factors are specifically crushing this...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

Actually, that's a decent article (for once), and it brings up interesting points. To summarize:

Sullivan's system requires a high IQ and higher-than-average skating to be effective while also giving star players the latitude they need to be star players. It's a very loose structure that depends on individuals all recognizing the same play and responding accordingly.

Dubas has brought in guys who are not lightning on their feet and, as one could conclude, not super high IQ guys. Now, we understand Hayes and Glass because we got paid to take them, so it focuses on three guys - Gryz, Graves, and Bunting. All did well in a very structured system but now they all suck.

So the basis of the article was - does Dubas understand Sullivan's system when it comes to the guys he brings in?

And I think there's a "no but..." answer there. It would appear that guys like Graves and Gryz do not fit the system well. I focused on these two because they were UFA signings. The others were all trades, so there was a slight loss of control. Graves and Gryz are 100% Dubas and are 100% self-inflicted wounds even though Gryz is a cheap, one year deal. It's the GM and HC's job to look at players they want to sign and determine how they will fit. If they see Graves and Gryz only doing well in their superstructured systems, then maybe Sullivan's freelancing and free-wheeling system isn't the best fit. So that's on Dubas because he's got the ultimate say on who is brought it. The only caveat I have here, though, is that there are only so many available, capable guys to choose from. It's not like there's a buffet of high-quality NHL players that are ripe for signing and trading. I don't think that's something that gets acknowledged often enough which brings me to the next "...but" point.

I do not think Sid, Geno, Letang, and now Karlsson are playing at the level that requires you to have a freelancing system so that you don't "hold them back". I would suggest all four are at the point where you need a bit of structure, especially in the dzone. If you have a roster that doesn't fit your system, I think it's incredibly reasonable to suggest that Sullivan should be looking to tweak the system to the roster he does have. This is where the stubbornness and ego of Sullivan are causing more of an issue than the roster Dubas has put together. Now, if Sid and Geno don't want a new coach who will require them to play a structured system, then fine...but don't look so f***ing sad and sappy and disappointed when the losses mount. And sure as shit they better not ask off the sinking ship they helped create.

If you can't find the players that 100% fit your system, it's the job of the coach to tweak the system so that it does work. Watching losses mount while blaming individual players for not doing well in the system is such a coward's way out.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

It's Sully's job to coach the team he has, not he team he wants.

 

[BusinessGoose]

It's Sully's job to coach the team he has, not he team he wants.

Or at the very least meet in the middle

Dude is stuck in his own rut

 

[Gurglesons]

If the roadmap to relevancy was a three to five year plan, then everyone would be doing that?

I'm not sold on Dubas. Nor like 75% of the GMs

The roadmap to relevancy is making creative, intelligent, forward thinking moves and a GM with a pair of balls.

We have none of that.

 

[BusinessGoose]

The roadmap to relevancy is making creative, intelligent, forward thinking moves and a GM with a pair of balls.

We have none of that.

I think I meant to imply that.. People saying we're going to be good in three years are out to lunch.

Our current plan, trajectory, and personnel are.... I want to say, horseshit

We will NEVER compete on any timeline with what we've seen so far.

But it's difficult to do right even with the winning mindset. Which is why a bunch of teams are floundering every year. But we're totally f***ed. Indefinitely. Until things change.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's Sully's job to coach the team he has, not he team he wants.

I feel like this is the biggest indictment on Sullivan as a coach as you can get. Regardless of whether or not his "system" can actually work with the "perfect" team, the fact remains that a good coach will fit the system to what he has available and not just this ideal "if every player could play to THIS standard" ideology.

 

[eXile3]

Sometimes I wonder if I should become a writer and just use a ChatGPT prompt to scour HFPens and shit out an article. I'd only charge $4.99/mo.

Actually, that's a decent article (for once), and it brings up interesting points. To summarize:

Sullivan's system requires a high IQ and higher-than-average skating to be effective while also giving star players the latitude they need to be star players. It's a very loose structure that depends on individuals all recognizing the same play and responding accordingly.

Dubas has brought in guys who are not lightning on their feet and, as one could conclude, not super high IQ guys. Now, we understand Hayes and Glass because we got paid to take them, so it focuses on three guys - Gryz, Graves, and Bunting. All did well in a very structured system but now they all suck.

So the basis of the article was - does Dubas understand Sullivan's system when it comes to the guys he brings in?

And I think there's a "no but..." answer there. It would appear that guys like Graves and Gryz do not fit the system well. I focused on these two because they were UFA signings. The others were all trades, so there was a slight loss of control. Graves and Gryz are 100% Dubas and are 100% self-inflicted wounds even though Gryz is a cheap, one year deal. It's the GM and HC's job to look at players they want to sign and determine how they will fit. If they see Graves and Gryz only doing well in their superstructured systems, then maybe Sullivan's freelancing and free-wheeling system isn't the best fit. So that's on Dubas because he's got the ultimate say on who is brought it. The only caveat I have here, though, is that there are only so many available, capable guys to choose from. It's not like there's a buffet of high-quality NHL players that are ripe for signing and trading. I don't think that's something that gets acknowledged often enough which brings me to the next "...but" point.

I do not think Sid, Geno, Letang, and now Karlsson are playing at the level that requires you to have a freelancing system so that you don't "hold them back". I would suggest all four are at the point where you need a bit of structure, especially in the dzone. If you have a roster that doesn't fit your system, I think it's incredibly reasonable to suggest that Sullivan should be looking to tweak the system to the roster he does have. This is where the stubbornness and ego of Sullivan are causing more of an issue than the roster Dubas has put together. Now, if Sid and Geno don't want a new coach who will require them to play a structured system, then fine...but don't look so f***ing sad and sappy and disappointed when the losses mount. And sure as shit they better not ask off the sinking ship they helped create.

If you can't find the players that 100% fit your system, it's the job of the coach to tweak the system so that it does work. Watching losses mount while blaming individual players for not doing well in the system is such a coward's way out.

And this is why the players don’t want a new coach. This is the crux of it.

 

[Gurglesons]

lol

 

[Pancakes]

Dubas had a 1st, 4th, 7th and 8th overall pick when he took over the Leafs and won a grand total of one playoff series.

Also, just for clarity since 2014, one first overall pick has won a cup and it was Ekblad last season.

They've played in 3 SCFs and they were the two most recent ones.

So Dubas is basically going to be here for ten more years?

Dubas has already screwed the pooch. The Penguins are in no man's land and he's likely toast within the next 4-5 years based on his complete ineptitude. He'll probably feel the pain towards the end of Sid's career and will make some stupid ass EK65 type trades.

JR is a huge doofus and he managed to have a hot streak as a gm even if his moves outside of that cup run were largely terrible.

If he can do it, Dubas can do it too

 

[Gurglesons]

JR is a huge doofus and he managed to have a hot streak as a gm even if his moves outside of that cup run were largely terrible.

If he can do it, Dubas can do it too

Rutherford has balls.

Dubas is a beta cuck.

 

[Ulf5]

32 Thoughts: Why the Bruins fired Jim Montgomery and what's next

After the Bruins failed to show consistent "pushback" it was time to make a change behind the bench. Plus, where the salary cap could go next, thoughts on the trade market, and more in this week's notes.

www.sportsnet.ca

1. Sacco was a finalist for the Jack Adams Award after his first season in Colorado (2009-10). An Avalanche player from then laughed recalling one story: While in Las Vegas for the ceremony, Sacco saw Sidney Crosby at the gym at 6:00 am, so he asked some of his best players what they were doing at the same time.

27. Pittsburgh did Lars Eller a big favour sending him to Washington. He didn’t have trade protection, but, clearly, that’s where he wished to go.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

We always seem to do right by the player, which is great and all (but also creates a culture where the players want to hold onto the coach no matter what because of how player-friendly the culture has become). So it really is a double-edged sword.

This team has LONG NEEDED a kick in the ass, from ownership all the way inside the room.

 

[Sideline]

We always seem to do right by the player, which is great and all (but also creates a culture where the players want to hold onto the coach no matter what because of how player-friendly the culture has become). So it really is a double-edged sword.

This team has LONG NEEDED a kick in the ass, from ownership all the way inside the room.

A reputation for putting guys in a good landing spot is going to be key for the Penguins in the offseasons to come. Pittsburgh isn't a destination you go to win anymore. They're going to need something that separates them the other smaller market bottom feeders looking to sign UFAs.

 

[Lustaf]

We always seem to do right by the player, which is great and all (but also creates a culture where the players want to hold onto the coach no matter what because of how player-friendly the culture has become). So it really is a double-edged sword.

This team has LONG NEEDED a kick in the ass, from ownership all the way inside the room.

Well except Hornqvist or Cole.