Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Gurglesons]

Since everything has been pretty quite recently, here is a quick update.

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Congratulations on being a good AHL goalie Jarry. Good luck down there forever.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Glass and Pulijujarvi both have the smarts/talent to play up in the lineup. (And I really don’t care if someone tries to convonce me Glass is garbage. I see something else.)
If the coach wasn’t so regimented, there are some options to try. Unfortunately, he is who he is, so it would take more injuries to see other combos.

That's what I meant. Someone like Glass *could* take the ball and run with it as the 2C if he was given a shot, but Sullivan is so damn set in his ways that he just "moves everyone up a line" as the default option.

 

[Al Smith]

Congratulations on being a good AHL goalie Jarry. Good luck down there forever.

Turns out Jarry is just another Pens' tweener.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Since everything has been pretty quite recently, here is a quick update.

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I hope this builds his confidence and even though he gets paid 5.375 million if he can play at a 3.5 million level I'd just accept him as an overpaid UFA signing (he was a ufa)

It sucks but I will make do. If he comes back and plays like shit well I guess we waive him and let Blomqvist play. I will add we sucked playing in front of him and I don't fully blame him but when your getting paid 5 mill you gotta make some stops.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You CAN do a lot with $5mil, sort of. The problem is that I don't think you're getting a Rust level player in free agency for $5mil. That's the benefit of drafting and resigning - you get a small discount at times. I just cruised the 2025 UFA forwards list and I don't see anyone that makes me say "Oh! Dump Rust and sign that guy!"

You didn't read what I said. I have no interest in them using that money for free agency.
The Pens shouldn't even use free agency anymore, outside of clear bargains they can boost and flip later at deadlines.
Every ounce of available cap space should be funnelled towards futures now, one way or the other.

 

[SEALBound]

You didn't read what I said. I have no interest in them using that money for free agency.
The Pens shouldn't even use free agency anymore, outside of clear bargains they can boost and flip later at deadlines.
Every ounce of available cap space should be funnelled towards futures now, one way or the other.

So what you're saying is, trade Rust and use the $5mil to do another Hayes or Glass like trade where we get assets for taking on cap?

I mean, I think we can do that anyway? I don't think there are a lot of high-dollar cap hits that make sense for us to take on at the expense of Rust with the exception, maybe, of a deal around Huberdeau.

With how the Rust and Rakell contracts line up with Sid, I'm not sure I see the point. Maybe in the very last year if Sid retires?

You would have to give me some examples of who you would target.

 

[Duffy13]

Refreshing to see someone like Trotz come out and say, if the team doesn't start to play better, the rebuild is starting.

This hell the Penguins are stuck in, is not so fun.

 

[Gurglesons]

So what you're saying is, trade Rust and use the $5mil to do another Hayes or Glass like trade where we get assets for taking on cap?

I mean, I think we can do that anyway? I don't think there are a lot of high-dollar cap hits that make sense for us to take on at the expense of Rust with the exception, maybe, of a deal around Huberdeau.

With how the Rust and Rakell contracts line up with Sid, I'm not sure I see the point. Maybe in the very last year if Sid retires?

You would have to give me some examples of who you would target.

I think @AuroraBorealis is correct in his assessment.

I don’t necessarily agree with the logic he’s selling completely, but the cleaner you can make your cap picture the better poised you are to bring in big players when they become available ala Panarin or utilize the cap to gain value.

 

[SEALBound]

I think @AuroraBorealis is correct in his assessment.

I don’t necessarily agree with the logic he’s selling completely, but the cleaner you can make your cap picture the better poised you are to bring in big players when they become available ala Panarin or utilize the cap to gain value.

Why would we bring in Panarin? This year's Panarin would be Marner. Why is god's name would be invest that money and term into someone like that at this stage?

Weaponizing cap space is nothing new. We literally did it twice this off-season. We will have more space coming so that we can do it again. I don't see any move that is so large that necessitates dumping Rust for nothing. Again, you'd have to name the player and show the breakdown.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why would we bring in Panarin? This year's Panarin would be Marner. Why is god's name would be invest that money and term into someone like that at this stage?

Weaponizing cap space is nothing new. We literally did it twice this off-season. We will have more space coming so that we can do it again. I don't see any move that is so large that necessitates dumping Rust for nothing. Again, you'd have to name the player and show the breakdown.

We don't have to do it next year, but Bryan Rust is on our books for multiple years.

Rust is not a part of the future. If you can get out of his contract you do it.

You then bring in shorter term deals that you can flip for value.

That would no be what we did this off season. That would be what the Caps did with Mangiapane, Edmundson, and Chychrun the last few years.

You keep the cap open because then if you have the opportunity you can accelerate the rebuild similar to Panarin.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

So what you're saying is, trade Rust and use the $5mil to do another Hayes or Glass like trade where we get assets for taking on cap?

Yes, except expand that to 20.5M over 4 years. Rust has way more than just 5.125 left on that deal.

I mean, I think we can do that anyway? I don't think there are a lot of high-dollar cap hits that make sense for us to take on at the expense of Rust with the exception, maybe, of a deal around Huberdeau.

There are a million bad contracts in this league. As long as you're getting appropriately compensated, take your pick.
It's not about the calibre of player you get. We're not trying to win anymore, or at least shouldn't be. It's about the quality of picks you receive relative to how much cap you burned to take on anchor deals.
Like Hayes was a 2nd for 3.5M. I'd do that kinda rate all day.
I don't understand this "at the expense of Rust" thing. He's lost his value to the team now. Getting a few more wins only hurts the team. Playoff relevance is over for Pittsburgh for the foreseeable future. He's dead cap space, essentially. He's free to go, like today, if the deal works. Needs to agree to waive his NMC though.

With how the Rust and Rakell contracts line up with Sid, I'm not sure I see the point. Maybe in the very last year if Sid retires?

Absolutely not. There is zero reason for Dubas to wait 3 years to get as many picks as he can. That'll just leave them in a weaker position when Sid's done.
There is always a point in building up your farm. Even if they won't be here when the team are contenders again, you can build up their value and flip them again for draft picks in years that do line up.

If you want examples...idk like Nurse? Eat the whole thing. Get a ton back.
They're not gonna make the playoffs again by the time his deal ends in 2029-30, so it's totally fine as long as you get paid off enough to do it.
You can exploit the Oilers desperation with their Cup window. Huberdeau is a good suggestion too.

 

[Khelandros]

Refreshing to see someone like Trotz come out and say, if the team doesn't start to play better, the rebuild is starting.

This hell the Penguins are stuck in, is not so fun.

It's easy to stick your neck out, when you have no neck.

 

[SEALBound]

Yes, except expand that to 20.5M over 4 years. Rust has way more than just 5.125 left on that deal.

No, that's Rust's cap hit each year. Salary is certainly a part of the discussion for some teams but at the end of the day, cap space is based on player cap hits.

There are a million bad contracts in this league. As long as you're getting appropriately compensated, take your pick.
It's not about the calibre of player you get. We're not trying to win anymore, or at least shouldn't be. It's about the quality of picks you receive relative to how much cap you burned to take on anchor deals.
Like Hayes was a 2nd for 3.5M. I'd do that kinda rate all day.
I don't understand this "at the expense of Rust" thing. He's lost his value to the team now. Getting a few more wins only hurts the team. Playoff relevance is over for Pittsburgh for the foreseeable future. He's dead cap space, essentially. He's free to go, like today, if the deal works. Needs to agree to waive his NMC though.

I think we agree here. I would do another Hayes @3.5mil fora 2nd+3rd again as well. What I was saying though is that with the cap space we will have available, I don't think you need to trade Rust for cheap or pay to get out of the deal in order to facilitate those types of trades. I would even go as far to say that if you're looking to take on a major dud on a contract and need space, the other team might be willing to do it with Rust coming back.

Rust hasn't lost value to the team. He's our top 6 RW. I don't his presence here matters but I do think that on his last year, we could get value.

Absolutely not. There is zero reason for Dubas to wait 3 years to get as many picks as he can. That'll just leave them in a weaker position when Sid's done.
There is always a point in building up your farm. Even if they won't be here when the team are contenders again, you can build up their value and flip them again for draft picks in years that do line up.

So this is where I think I'm starting to have issue with the argument but not because I disagree necessarily. Rust has this year and three more at $5.125mil. Not an inconsequential contract. If he has lost the value that you suggest, who is going to take him? As point out earlier, I'm not in the "pay to get rid of Rust" camp. So who is going to take him at full cap? I would suggest that we may have to pay to send him out only to use the cap space to trade for someone and get a similar payment back. Like Rust+3rd out and Hayes+2nd coming in. And if that's the case, I don't agree that it is THAT necessary of a trade to make. I'd rather just keep Rust and let him help Sid. Then his last year, you send him out for the 3rd.

If you're pushing this down the line three years, then I'm for it. I just think that suggesting a team will take Rust and his full hit for 3.5 years off our hands for...free? and then using that to trade for another guy for a 2nd or 3rd, is a little far fetched at the moment.

If you want examples...idk like Nurse? Eat the whole thing. Get a ton back.
They're not gonna make the playoffs again by the time his deal ends in 2029-30, so it's totally fine as long as you get paid off enough to do it.
You can exploit the Oilers desperation with their Cup window. Huberdeau is a good suggestion too.

I don't think Edmonton has the ponies to do that though. The assets they would use to pay to get out of the deal are the same assets they should be using to improve the team. Their 1st should be used on Marcus Pettersson @ 50% at the TDL, not dumping Nurse.

Huberdeau is a bit different because I believe there is salvageable value there. But that's more me being willing to take the risk. I'd even do it straightup.

But really, when you look at the NHL landscape at the moment, there aren't a ton of high value anchor deals. Most are in that $4-6mil range like a Graves or Jarry. And what I'm saying is if we want to get paid to take those on, we don't have to pay to dump Rust early to get that cap space. We have the space coming up to do it. If you want to target Edmonton, maybe target Kane instead?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Rust full-contact practice. I expect him in vs the Caps.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Refreshing to see someone like Trotz come out and say, if the team doesn't start to play better, the rebuild is starting.

This hell the Penguins are stuck in, is not so fun.

Fingers crossed this is the final season of this masquerade that we're years into at this point. Rust's NTC drops July 1st. EK should be dealt this summer. Petts and Eller should be dealt at the TDL.

Dubas basically said the same thing, this is their last shot more or less. But he half-asses everything so it's one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" situations with him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Fingers crossed this is the final season of this masquerade that we're years into at this point. Rust's NTC drops July 1st. EK should be dealt this summer. Petts and Eller should be dealt at the TDL.

Dubas basically said the same thing, this is their last shot more or less. But he half-asses everything so it's one of those "I'll believe it when I see it" situations with him.

"Alright... I'm giving you guys ONE MORE chance! But if you can't get it done with Kevin Hayes, Tony Beau and Cody Glass then there is just no helping this team."

 

[AuroraBorealis]

No, that's Rust's cap hit each year. Salary is certainly a part of the discussion for some teams but at the end of the day, cap space is based on player cap hits.

I'm talking about 4 years worth of cap hits, not salary. You can use the money each year towards something worthwhile. Cumulatively, it's 20.5M left on his deal.

Rust hasn't lost value to the team. He's our top 6 RW. I don't his presence here matters but I do think that on his last year, we could get value.

We don't need a top-6 scoring RW anymore. Cups are out of reach. We need to draft higher, not lower.

If he has lost the value that you suggest, who is going to take him? As point out earlier, I'm not in the "pay to get rid of Rust" camp. So who is going to take him at full cap?

I said he lost value to the Pittsburgh Penguins, not in the league. He's still a good player.
A desperate GM for scoring might take on the whole thing. Say like...Chicago. Or senile Lou who values veterans and has no offense might do it. Columbus is dying for scoring.
Anaheim same thing. Etc...

And if that's the case, I don't agree that it is THAT necessary of a trade to make. I'd rather just keep Rust and let him help Sid. Then his last year, you send him out for the 3rd.

A 3rd is garbage compensation for burning 15.3M. We got more than that for using 3.5M on Hayes.
It is a necessary trade to make. You can get like four 2nd rounders out of that money, or some medley of picks. They need futures way more than they need Rust.
There's nothing Rust can help Sid with anymore. Sid wants playoffs and Cups, and Rust can't give him that.

I don't think Edmonton has the ponies to do that though. The assets they would use to pay to get out of the deal are the same assets they should be using to improve the team. Their 1st should be used on Marcus Pettersson @ 50% at the TDL, not dumping Nurse.

Sure they do. They have their 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 etc.. 1sts.
They have their 2nds starting from 2025 until many years in the future.
Non-immediate picks even suit us better anyway. Not only do they line up better for us, but the Oilers may be worse down the road and we'd pick higher.

I would expect far more compensation than just a lone 1st for taking on Nurse's full contract. He plays at like a 6M value and gets paid 9.25M. Plus as he ages that net negative value will surely worsen.
We'd be doing them a huge service to relieve them of all of it, so they gotta fork over the picks.
Pettersson can also go to them at the deadline. Those things don't block each other. There's enough picks to go around.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

"Alright... I'm giving you guys ONE MORE chance! But if you can't get it done with Kevin Hayes, Tony Beau and Cody Glass then there is just no helping this team."

"I brought back perfect blueliner Petts at $7M AAV and we've given Rust the C. I've done all I can."

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

"Alright... I'm giving you guys ONE MORE chance! But if you can't get it done with Kevin Hayes, Tony Beau and Cody Glass then there is just no helping this team."

Seriously. If this is the roster Dubas decided was good enough to give the core one last kick at the can with, then it's no wonder the team checks out halfway through the games.

It's like a parent patronizingly handing a kid $5 to go to the movies with nowadays and saying, "You don't have to spend it all, you know".

 

[SEALBound]

Seriously. If this is the roster Dubas decided was good enough to give the core one last kick at the can with, then it's no wonder the team checks out halfway through the games.

It's like a parent patronizingly handing a kid $5 to go to the movies with nowadays and saying, "You don't have to spend it all, you know".

I think this was the "don't finish last" and "if we make the playoffs great, but whatever" roster.

 

[Gurglesons]

Marcus Pettersson worst defenseman in the league in terms of GA per 60 with 160+ minutes played.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Yes, except expand that to 20.5M over 4 years. Rust has way more than just 5.125 left on that deal.

There are a million bad contracts in this league. As long as you're getting appropriately compensated, take your pick.
It's not about the calibre of player you get. We're not trying to win anymore, or at least shouldn't be. It's about the quality of picks you receive relative to how much cap you burned to take on anchor deals.
Like Hayes was a 2nd for 3.5M. I'd do that kinda rate all day.
I don't understand this "at the expense of Rust" thing. He's lost his value to the team now. Getting a few more wins only hurts the team. Playoff relevance is over for Pittsburgh for the foreseeable future. He's dead cap space, essentially. He's free to go, like today, if the deal works. Needs to agree to waive his NMC though.

Absolutely not. There is zero reason for Dubas to wait 3 years to get as many picks as he can. That'll just leave them in a weaker position when Sid's done.
There is always a point in building up your farm. Even if they won't be here when the team are contenders again, you can build up their value and flip them again for draft picks in years that do line up.

If you want examples...idk like Nurse? Eat the whole thing. Get a ton back.
They're not gonna make the playoffs again by the time his deal ends in 2029-30, so it's totally fine as long as you get paid off enough to do it.
You can exploit the Oilers desperation with their Cup window. Huberdeau is a good suggestion too.

If your farm becomes too good then you also leave the Penguins in a worse situation because they might be contributing by the time 87 retires and they aren't able to get any top-3 picks. Rebuilds are about planning, timing, and luck. It's not just about getting as many picks as possible (see: timing).

I do agree that getting Nurse could be a good idea, but what would Edmonton offer? Late firsts when they're a top team?

Spreading out your picks is also desirable if you get a franchise player at the right time. Imagine if the Penguins had extra picks in 07 or 08 that they had traded for a few years prior?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If your farm becomes too good then you also leave the Penguins in a worse situation because they might be contributing by the time 87 retires and they aren't able to get any top-3 picks. Rebuilds are about planning, timing, and luck. It's not just about getting as many picks as possible (see: timing).

I do agree that getting Nurse could be a good idea, but what would Edmonton offer? Late firsts when they're a top team?

Spreading out your picks is also desirable if you get a franchise player at the right time. Imagine if the Penguins had extra picks in 07 or 08 that they had traded for a few years prior?

Then those upcoming picks would have to be difference makers at 18 or 19 years old to derail the team in the standings before Sid quits. That seems super unlikely, especially under this coach.
There's gonna be even more emphasis on development in the minors or juniors when there's less urgency to help the big club. A losing season this year will make Dubas commit harder to rebuilding.
They're not gonna rush them at all. I don't foresee this being a problem.

Idk what Edmonton would give up. A lot. If you're taking on a contract with a net negative 20 mil or w/e in performance value, the return would need to be substantial. It would make sense for both sides too. You only get so many cracks at it in a Cup window. Sacrifice is required.

If I had it my way I wouldn't ask for 2025 or 2026 picks. I'd backload it all, so that they develop during the team's ascension arc, together. That way hopefully you can build a core that are similar ages, and you can potentially exploit ELC's to go deep. But that's not a realistic demand from any GM. They think about the short term for the most part. They don't even know if they'll still be employed by the team X years in the future. They're never gonna ask for picks that are 4+ years out from getting drafted.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I wish Dubas would just trade Puustinen already, why destroy a prospect to the point of being someone you can get nothing for because the coach is a dipshit, it'd clear the way for another prospect to come up that hopefully a twat like Sullivan doesn't ruin or is somehow Sullivan proof.

It could allow Broz to be a call up for example. Also Puustinen deserves better than this, blokes can be about the whole "yeah but he signed the contract" shit but it could also be he was told he had a chance at playing and then realized he was going to get f***ed over harder than he's ever been, instead. They're dicking around Doc as well, he finds chemistry with a duo and Sullivan shits all over it. Glass looks good with Bunting and Beauvillier, nah lets force him into usage he's not ready for at all...need more Acciari or some shit. Jesse Puljujarvi can play well and somehow gets healthy scratched for reasons he won't give a proper answer for.

Meanwhile Bunting will get healthy scratched for being ass and finally looks better the last couple of games, Hayes has been a ghost because of the way he's being used on the 4th line and also his play in addition to his linemates changing on a game to game basis. Tough to get into a groove when you don't know if you're gonna be with Lizotte, Beauvillier, Acciari, Glass, Puljujarvi, or Puustinen in your insane 6-7mins of ice time.

Teams are ravaged with injuries that don't have decent call-ups with offensive upside or NHL experience, Dubas has an opportunity here to move Puustinen even for a 5th to a team like the Avs, Isles, Bruins, etc.

Avs are getting back Nuke in a week, just got back Lehkonen so they might be off that list already.
Isles might not be a good choice because Lou is a nutter.
Bruins might be desperate for some depth help, they literally just signed Tyler Johnson to help them.

Then there are teams that might just see him as an opportunity to be a good fit and are likely waiting for Dubas to waive him and get him for nothing. Sullivan doesn't want to see Puljujarvi and Puustinen properly, might as well get something for them now before losing them for nothing, doesn't even matter if you stockpile a 5th or 6th or two 6th rounders, whatever.

I think this was the "don't finish last" and "if we make the playoffs great, but whatever" roster.

I don't think FSG will be happy about that. After their usual verbal stroke job for Sullivan, they went on about how Dubas is the right bloke to figure this out and get them back to being a playoff team while being younger, yet Sullivan keeps making it impossible to get younger or get into the playoffs because of his usage, lol.

I am curious to see what Werner says if they rip off a bunch of losses in a row and are 2nd from last again and the damage is already done by then for the season, is he going to blame the 3rd GM Sullivan has had or is he going to give Dubas the permission to fire the twat.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

"Alright... I'm giving you guys ONE MORE chance! But if you can't get it done with Kevin Hayes, Tony Beau and Cody Glass then there is just no helping this team."

Most teams add players like Beau and Glass, etc, but the way they're used is far different than the way they are used under Sullivan.

Cronin is a truly awful coach and even he was like "Harkins? lol AHL fodder..."
Colin White took an AHL contract with the Sharks affiliate and sucks.

Beauvillier was hot ass for like 8-9 games and Sullivan never once healthy scratched him, but Puljujarvi has a good game, healthy scratched lol. Cody Glass went from having a breakthrough year in Nashville to being hurt and mediocre last year, so to bring him along, Sullivan has thrown him all over the roster and when he has looked good, he just moves him out of that and f***s him over even more, this lad is going to be even more lost as a player by December if he isn't already. He's not going to "break out" again or "figure it out" with the way he's being used. He was good with Hayes and Acciari and they should have left that, instead they f***ed him around, he looked good with Bunts and Beau, nah can't have that, top 6 usage! Where he looked entirely lost, he's giving him the Doc treatment which almost destroyed Doc in his first couple of years and has f***ed him hard this year. Doc is at least still fantastic on the PK and with Eller, but the constant shit usage is even hurting Eller now.

Kevin Hayes probably thinks Torts wasn't all that bad now I bet, lol.

Sullivan would jerk players around and they'd go on these insane cold streaks - Heinen and Rodrigues were good examples of it, E-Rod went to Florida and was told to focus on certain aspects of his game because he was all over the place and that was after he was honed in a little more with the Avs after leaving the Pens. E-Rod's total points tell a different story if blokes remember how he was used, hot streaks made it look better than it was, he is far more consistent with his time in Colorado and Florida, same for Heinen in his return to Boston and now with the Canucks. Remember when E-Rod went 30 games with 3 goals (5 assists)? Still kept getting top 6 time, because Sullivan couldn't figure out why it wasn't working. Curious to see Smith this season with the Rangers if he ends up being better there overall.

But yeah, we keep blaming players when it's the coach that gives them the ice time and usage as well as where they are in the line-up, all they can control is trying to figure out how to fit in situations they don't fit.