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Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

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With each passing game, the argument that Bylsma is a better coach than Sullivan gets more and more convincing. I'm pretty much sold at this point.

Sullivan had higher highs, but I'm giving the nod to DB for the overall.
I don't believe we would have missed the playoffs the last 2 years under him. Nor do I think he'd be 3-5-1 here right now, with the 31st ranked defense and Sid dormant.

This is just trash coaching.
DBs doing better with Seattle.
 
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AuroraBorealis said:
With each passing game, the argument that Bylsma is a better coach than Sullivan gets more and more convincing. I'm pretty much sold at this point.

Sullivan had higher highs, but I'm giving the nod to DB for the overall.
I don't believe we would have missed the playoffs the last 2 years under him. Nor do I think he'd be 3-5-1 here right now, with the 31st ranked defense and Sid dormant.

This is just trash coaching.
DBs doing better with Seattle.
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I don't see the need for the comparison, at this point Sullivan is past his best before date.

In my mind that's all there is to it.

The alternative is what?

The team is already 26th out of 32, the bottom has already come.
 
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Zbynek said:
Yeah. How does Jarry avoid waivers here?

Not like anyone would have claimed him. Not even Colorado is that desperate.
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They can send him on a conditioning loan for 14 consecutive days, still counts against the cap etc.

Teams have done it before, it's not new. It doesn't always end up being because of a return from an injury.

Tacitus Kilgore said:
Best decision management has made since buying out JJ

Edit: I want to see what happens if Jarry absolutely shits the bed during this "conditioning stint"
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I think 14 days away from the shit goalie coach and with a better one wbs and some games might do him a lot of good. Hopefully enough to come back up, win a bunch and be easier to trade.

Or did you lot want this to fail to bitch about another thing like we don't have enough to be angry about?
 
Imagine needing a conditioning stint 8 or so games into the season. That's like coming back to work from a month PTO and then asking for a couple days off

Honour Over Glory said:
I'm hoping I witness the blowout loss that ended Mike Sullivan's long term romance with FSG and got his ass fired.

If only the canucks arena wasn't garbage I'd at least be able to enjoy it at a nice venue.
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It should be like that (Fla Panthers?) coach who got fired after the game with the pics of the opposing (Canes?) teams equipment managers loading his bags into a car to the airport
 
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I hate Acciari but he’s been fine so far, maybe even good.

The Jarry thing is unusual if he’s healthy. But Dubas seems like he’s a fan of conditioning stints in general. Especially for goalies.
 
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Why is it so hard for GMs to admit their mistakes? Jarry is never going to be worth that contract.

You have a goalie who can’t make saves behind a coach who won’t coach defense. Maybe Dubas is trying to tank.
 
Coach will only matter alongside roster changes. That being said, Sullivan's expiration was years ago and at this point he's turning into a new substance all together.

If they don't fire him, it's probably just as simple as they don't give a shit anymore (my take). I think after Sid was willing to commit they knew they were going to make expected profits and that's that. Things usually just boil down to money - especially with groups like our owners. There's no reason they care if we're 31st or 16th at this point, genuinely. Their long term plans probably involve a team sale in a decade or less.

If they do fire him, there's a pulse to this organization. But we're still missing a brain. The roster, as constructed, stinks. It's awful, and most anyone saw that a mile away. We can't score, we can't defend - and that's both on the system we employ and the abilities of the players we have. So firing him would be step one, but other than the initial dopamine hit I'm not sure what else folks are expecting. We're going to beat equally shit teams this year, but we're going to get run into the ground 9/10 times against playoff teams. They'll have off nights or back to backs where we can celebrate a win - but by and large this team was a 35 win team (tops) before puck dropped opening night.
 
My main takeaway from last nights Oilers game, is they fired the D coach after last season because the system wasn't working and hired a new coach that is now having the defense play the exact same way.

You can see it from Crosby on every play. Defense gets the puck in their own zone, hard around and out along the boards/glass. There is hardly any setup and no one carries the puck out. Get possession, hard around. Break up a play, hard around. It is a system designed to have no danger in your own zone at all and for the players the Penguins have and what they probably want to do, it is the exact opposite system to play.
 
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Khelandros said:
My main takeaway from last nights Oilers game, is they fired the D coach after last season because the system wasn't working and hired a new coach that is now having the defense play the exact same way.

You can see it from Crosby on every play. Defense gets the puck in their own zone, hard around and out along the boards/glass. There is hardly any setup and no one carries the puck out. Get possession, hard around. Break up a play, hard around. It is a system designed to have no danger in your own zone at all and for the players the Penguins have and what they probably want to do, it is the exact opposite system to play.
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The worst part is that the system doesnt change according to the opponent. Carolina was crashing the boards super hard and taking away the pass but they just kept doing it all night. Coaching staff is like a deer in headlights
 
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Malkinstheman said:
The worst part is that the system doesnt change according to the opponent. Carolina was crashing the boards super hard and taking away the pass but they just kept doing it all night. Coaching staff is like a deer in headlights
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Why would you ever change your system?

DwQT8v1WsAAuhAI.jpg

- Mike Sullivan (probably)
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
That first part is so key. Dude doesn't want to (or simply cannot) coach players. They have to come in as basically finished products, whether prospects or vets.

As for the second part; No, because the second Sid decides Sullivan's system/style/coaching are annoying him, Sullivan's gone.
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I am not even sure Sid can outlast Sullivan at this point. Mario has so little say in this organization now. Yeah, it was a country club atmosphere when Mario ran the team, and there were other problems.

But it was so much better than the current Massachusetts mafia setup we have going.


SEALBound said:
I think you and @pistolpete11 are missing the core thesis of my response. I don't disagree that in order for this team to compete better, it would have been (in hindsight) better to use anywhere from $4mil (Graves) up to $18mil (Graves, Jarry, Acciari, Hayes, Glass) on higher-end talent and round everything out with uber-cheap depth players like DOC and Puljujarvi.

What I am saying is:
1. I don't think that talent was available. I listed the big fish in FA and looking at stats, none of them are doing all that well unless we want to advocate for Jake (which would be an incredibly reasonable argument). Steph, Stammer, Bertuzzi, Toffoli, Marchy - none of these guys would be the missing ingredient we currently see. This team is far more broken than what a single 27+ yo top 6 wing can realistically provide.
2. Given where we are at with our window, it doesn't make sense to get any of those guys, even if they were available. I thought what Nashville did was a little bizarre. Now they have Marchy, Stammer, and Skjei on expensive, long-term contracts. Season is still young obviously but if they don't pull something off, that's going to be a big miscalculation by Trotz.
3. With Sullivan at the helm, I just assume ride it out with Sid and Geno with what we have in front of us. We'll get to waive goodbye and we are still collecting draft capital. Dubas weaponized available cap space to gain more draft capital. We got a 2nd from Smith, 2nd+3rd for Hayes, and a 3rd for Glass PLUS whatever we get from those two later down the road.
4. To get the talent needed to turn us into a bonafide contender we would need to flush what little prospect and draft capital we have. And even then, whose available? Seriously. Marner? What would Marner cost us? I think our last big trade was Karlsson. It was a meh trade after 90 games. I don't think we are in a position to pay the price tag anymore. Certainly not when we have potential lottery picks coming our way.
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SEAL, with do respect, no one is available if you are not interested in the player. By you I mean this team.

Dubas (with Sullivan's input undoubtedly) felt that we were better off "trying to compete" in the final years of the four stars' careers while weaponizing draft capital by adding ZERO first-round draft picks, not building at all around said four stars (Grz is a joke of a D partner for either Karlsson or Letang; Beauvillier is a joke of a top-six winger option, etc.) and not improving any facet of the squad. Brilliant!

Steven Stamkos was available. Did we make a call to his agent even for ceremony's sake? We don't know for sure, but there was never any smoke there. So again, we cannot even say we tried and failed here. Yeah, he is struggling in Nashville. That PP also has two other snipers who shoot right. We don't have any. Would a better PP camouflage many other team issues? Maybe. Not like it has not happened in the past.

Patrik Laine was not only available, but he also came with a second-round draft pick for those GMs smart enough to take the plunge. What would it have cost us? The Blue Jackets loved Jordan Harris so much he has been a healthy scratch most games so far this season. Again, he comes with massive risk. But the PP improves with him, no doubt.

We are not talking about giving up future assets to improve this team here. Nobody wants that. But are you telling me we could not have done better than Hayes, Beauvillier, Grz and Glass while trying to weaponizing draft capital? And don't you think that foursome of utter drek deserved at least one first-round draft pick in return???

And again, Mitch Marner is a pending UFA. If he goes to market, there is absolutely zero argument against making him an offer, at least. Mike Sullivan is the head coach until HE decides he is no longer the head coach. At that time, he will likely become President of Hockey Ops. So the real issue is that the players from the outside that might actually help 87, 71, 65 and 58 offensively these next few years are players Mike Sullivan wants no part of. Why? Because they have warts. Because he might have to actually be forced to do some coaching. Marner is actually a player Sullivan would love, AND he is a top-six winger. Marner might be a unicorn the way things are going.

I get it, you want them to blow it up and start over. Sullivan is still here though, so the best we can do is bring in talent around the veterans and try to outscore the opposition. And Marner kills penalties with aplomb, too. However, he might not under Sullivan. But in THEORY, Marner should pan out here.

We all agree that the No. 1 problem that won't go away is the HC. Where you and I disagree is the rest of the plan. You weant a bunch of talented prospects that will be destroyed by Sullivan. I want a bunch of high-scoring veterans that might just ignore him.
 
Dubas has not shown to be a shrewd deal maker
That's why those deals didn't happen
And won't happen

He's a "do the expected at market rate" kind of guy

EK only happened cause EK forced it, and we still didn't get a good deal on it despite having all the leverage

And Guentzel was a bit of a swing and miss, but we didn't have leverage there. If Dubas was with CAR, we would have made out like bandits

Dubas is Mr PlayItSafe. Which isn't great in a risk-reward setting
 
I think it’s most fair to put Dubas’ performance with the Penguins as poor. He hasn’t done well with the moves he has made but I also feel most of the moves he has made have been inconsequential or meh.

You have:

-Jarry deal: horrible
-Graves deal: horrible
-Other UFA signings: some good and some bad, but still mostly inconsequential
-Karlsson trade: fine value that ended up being a mistake
-Guentzel trade: fine value that he mistakenly insisted on targeting Bunting in
-Smith trade: I guess net positive? He traded a 3rd, got a mediocre year out of Smith and then traded him for a 2nd
-McGroarty trade: fine, just an even prospect 1/1 swap
-Hayes/Glass trade: meh? They got paid to take on a bad deal.

I’d say his drafting has been good, his trades have been meh and his UFA signings have been awful. That results in a poor grade overall for Dubas.
 
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