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Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

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Empoleon8771 said:
I think it’s most fair to put Dubas’ performance with the Penguins as poor. He hasn’t done well with the moves he has made but I also feel most of the moves he has made have been inconsequential or meh.

You have:

-Jarry deal: horrible
-Graves deal: horrible
-Other UFA signings: some good and some bad, but still mostly inconsequential
-Karlsson trade: fine value that ended up being a mistake
-Guentzel trade: fine value that he mistakenly insisted on targeting Bunting in
-Smith trade: I guess net positive? He traded a 3rd, got a mediocre year out of Smith and then traded him for a 2nd
-McGroarty trade: fine, just an even prospect 1/1 swap
-Hayes/Glass trade: meh? They got paid to take on a bad deal.

I’d say his drafting has been good, his trades have been meh and his UFA signings have been awful. That results in a poor grade overall for Dubas.
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You forgot arguably his most egregious move as GM - keeping and endlessly praising Mike Sullivan as coach.

I'd be curious to see how all of the things you listed above would have turned out if he'd fired Sullivan first.
 
Sidney the Kidney said:
You forgot arguably his most egregious move as GM - keeping and endlessly praising Mike Sullivan as coach.

I'd be curious to see how all of the things you listed above would have turned out if he'd fired Sullivan first.
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I see no reason to think that Dubas alone has the power to fire Sullivan. FSG negotiated Sullivan’s extension before they even hired Dubas.
 
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Gurglesons said:
Because Dubas is the highest paid member of the Penguins payroll over Sid, Geno, EK, etc.
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Okay? That has nothing to do with what I said.

FSG gave Sullivan a $5.5 million extension before Dubas was even hired. There’s no reason to think that Dubas unilaterally has the power to fire Sullivan with how much FSG loves Sullivan.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Okay? That has nothing to do with what I said.

FSG gave Sullivan a $5.5 million extension before Dubas was even hired. There’s no reason to think that Dubas unilaterally has the power to fire Sullivan with how much FSG loves Sullivan.
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Any executive getting paid the amount of cash Dubas is has the ability to fire Sullivan.

There are two reasons why he hasn’t fired Sullivan.

# 1. As he’s expressed multiple times, he thinks Sullivan is a great coach and a key part of the organization.

# 2. Once he pulls that trigger the timer starts on Dubas in terms of accountability. The longer he waits to fire Sullivan, the longer the public consensus will fall on Sullivan being at fault.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
I see no reason to think that Dubas alone has the power to fire Sullivan. FSG negotiated Sullivan’s extension before they even hired Dubas.
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That would be a really weird way to run a professional hockey club, then. The GM and President of Hockey Ops has always had the power to make hockey decisions. The only time that doesn't happen is when you have Harold Ballard-esque interfering owners.

I just don't think Dubas has given any pushback to the idea of keeping Sullivan. I don't think it's a case of Dubas wanting Sullivan fired but FSG nixing it. I think Dubas simply is on the same page as FSG when it comes to Sullivan. And that's the problem.
 
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Sidney the Kidney said:
That would be a really weird way to run a professional hockey club, then. The GM and President of Hockey Ops has always had the power to make hockey decisions. The only time that doesn't happen is when you have Harold Ballard-esque interfering owners.

I just don't think Dubas has given any pushback to the idea of keeping Sullivan. I don't think it's a case of Dubas wanting Sullivan fired but FSG nixing it. I think Dubas simply is on the same page as FSG when it comes to Sullivan. And that's the problem.
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It’s really weird the loyalty this team has shown to Mike Sullivan for constant failures over the last 7 or so years.

Again, I see literally nothing to make me think Dubas alone has the ability to fire Sullivan. We even heard rumors in the offseason that Sullivan was trying to prevent Rierden from being fired and only agreed to it if he could add his buddy Quinn to the coaching staff. Sullivan has a ridiculous amount of power in this organization and I see nothing that makes me think Dubas alone has the authority to fire him.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
It’s really weird the loyalty this team has shown to Mike Sullivan for constant failures over the last 7 or so years.

Again, I see literally nothing to make me think Dubas alone has the ability to fire Sullivan. We even heard rumors in the offseason that Sullivan was trying to prevent Rierden from being fired and only agreed to it if he could add his buddy Quinn to the coaching staff. Sullivan has a ridiculous amount of power in this organization and I see nothing that makes me think Dubas alone has the authority to fire him.
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I beg you to look at the history of Dubas.

This isn't some conspiracy theory. Dubas is not an intelligent hockey mind, he is a cookie cutter of the 200 hockey men meme, but he is young, stylish and wears glasses.

He is loyal to his guys just like all hockey men and he believes Sullivan is a great coach as he has insisted multiple times.

FSG doesn't give a shit. They aren't even involved.

The only argument you can make about FSG and Sullivan is that they don't want to pay a coach not to work here. Not that Dubas has no control.
 
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Gurglesons said:
I beg you to look at the history of Dubas.

This isn't some conspiracy theory. Dubas is not an intelligent hockey mind, he is a cookie cutter of the 200 hockey men meme, but he is young, stylish and wears glasses.

He is loyal to his guys just like all hockey men and he believes Sullivan is a great coach as he has insisted multiple times.

FSG doesn't give a shit. They aren't even involved.

The only argument you can make about FSG and Sullivan is that they don't want to pay a coach not to work here. Not that Dubas has no control.
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Stylish? I’m no fashionista, but when did dressing like a 60 year old banker on casual Fridays become stylish?
 
The GM said:
Stylish? I’m no fashionista, but when did dressing like a 60 year old banker on casual Fridays become stylish?
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I mean comparably.

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Gurglesons said:
I beg you to look at the history of Dubas.

This isn't some conspiracy theory. Dubas is not an intelligent hockey mind, he is a cookie cutter of the 200 hockey men meme, but he is young, stylish and wears glasses.

He is loyal to his guys just like all hockey men and he believes Sullivan is a great coach as he has insisted multiple times.

FSG doesn't give a shit. They aren't even involved.

The only argument you can make about FSG and Sullivan is that they don't want to pay a coach not to work here. Not that Dubas has no control.
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I think Dibas still likes Sully. But even if he didn't, I think FSG would still veto a firing.
 
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That Werner guy said him and John Henry talk to Dubas every day. I wonder how their conversations are going nowadays
 
Yeah, I think a sticking point for Dubas was autonomy to do his thing. If he wanted to fire Sully, he would, and FSG would let him imo.

The shittier issue is that Dubas, like a lot of people in decision making roles within the org over the years, thinks Sullivan is an unimpeachable asset to any hockey team, and the Pens are lucky to have him.

So unless this team has a calamitous drop to a top-3 pick in the draft, I have no faith they'd even talk about whether he should be the coach moving forward. And even then, I still think it'd be left up to Sully's decision whether to step down or not, because of how venerated the guy is. But I do think if Dubas wanted to, he could fire Sullivan.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
Yeah, I think a sticking point for Dubas was autonomy to do his thing. If he wanted to fire Sully, he would, and FSG would let him imo.

The shittier issue is that Dubas, like a lot of people in decision making roles within the org over the years, thinks Sullivan is an unimpeachable asset to any hockey team, and the Pens are lucky to have him.

So unless this team has a calamitous drop to a top-3 pick in the draft, I have no faith they'd even talk about whether he should be the coach moving forward. And even then, I still think it'd be left up to Sully's decision whether to step down or not, because of how venerated the guy is. But I do think if Dubas wanted to, he could fire Sullivan.
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If you are Dubas why would you fire Sullivan?

Dubas is obviously playing the same playbook as Hextall. Fake competitiveness while restocking for the future.

If he gets a top 3 pick in the draft that helps Dubas' future with the organization and he can part with Sullivan in the off season giving Dubas more runway.

And that is exactly the type of slimy snake Dubas is.

He's not concerned with championships. He's concerned with climbing the hockey operations ladder.
 
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Gurglesons said:
If you are Dubas why would you fire Sullivan?

Dubas is obviously playing the same playbook as Hextall. Fake competitiveness while restocking for the future.

If he gets a top 3 pick in the draft that helps Dubas' future with the organization and he can part with Sullivan in the off season giving Dubas more runway.

And that is exactly the type of slimy snake Dubas is.

He's not concerned with championships. He's concerned with climbing the hockey operations ladder.
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I don't think Dubas is smart enough to conspire like that tbh. I think he just genuinely believes Sully is the right coach now and moving forward, meaning he's a moron. Which is way worse imo. :laugh:

But if he's playing 5D chess and keeping Sully to tank the season, act as a lightning rod for criticism, and land a top-3 pick, only to turn around and fire Sully the second the season's over, I'm fine with that. Happy with it, honestly. It'd be the smart move, and I'd rather the team ended up with something of value for another shit season of hockey as opposed to trying in vain to right the ship and make a run at a WC spot, only to end up just in or just out of the playoffs yet again.
 
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Yeah I don't think some sleazy snake would get a bit too emotional at a press conference and inadvertently get himself fired. More likely than not he's just a moron that likes Sullivan
 
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Sidney the Kidney said:
That would be a really weird way to run a professional hockey club, then. The GM and President of Hockey Ops has always had the power to make hockey decisions. The only time that doesn't happen is when you have Harold Ballard-esque interfering owners.

I just don't think Dubas has given any pushback to the idea of keeping Sullivan. I don't think it's a case of Dubas wanting Sullivan fired but FSG nixing it. I think Dubas simply is on the same page as FSG when it comes to Sullivan. And that's the problem.
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I don't think FSG even thought they had a chance at Dubas when they extended Sullivan. The extension certainly has nothing to do with Dubas' power to fire Sullivan if he wishes. I'm sure FSG doesn't want to pay out all that money. But they have to be smart enough to put in his contract that it's void if he's hired elsewhere. At least you would think.
And as we've seen, people in the hockey world are enamored with Sullivan.
 
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Malkinstheman said:
Yeah I don't think some sleazy snake would get a bit too emotional at a press conference and inadvertently get himself fired. More likely than not he's just a moron that likes Sullivan
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Nah. He's exactly the type to take that incident and frame it as the reason he got fired so that morons pity him because he was "just being emotional".

Dubas was trying to go above his boss's head in Toronto and cut Shanahan out for two years. He may have been correct about it, but he's that type of person and the "aw shucks" my grandma posts on twitter and I'm just a young Canada kid who worked his way up the right way is totally a front.

He's as media trained as Sid and any time he speaks it's obvious as hell he's as snarky as a poltiician.
 
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