Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[BusinessGoose]

Regardless of if he’s worth it- Hoglander is literally the definition of cost controlled. for 4 years. fixed cost with no uncertainty.

What am I guaranteed to experience, as a fan, from this $3mil player?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Cost controlled this year, sure. The next 3 when his extension kicks in? TBD.
He's producing no better than Acciari this year, so it depends what you get from him moving forward.

The Hoglander route also entails abandoning getting a 1st for Petts most likely, so that's pretty notable too.

Well, his career to date from ages 20-24 has him producing at a 17 goal/31 point per 82 game rate. Seems like a pretty good bet if the goal is to buy low on promising young players with speed. If he were producing at that rate this year, he likely wouldn't be available.

Everything's dependent on cost, of course. But Dubas either didn't prioritize or couldn't manage to land a 1st for Guentzel, so I don't really expect it for Petts.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Well, his career to date from ages 20-24 has him producing at a 17 goal/31 point per 82 game rate. Seems like a pretty good bet if the goal is to buy low on promising young players with speed. If he were producing at that rate this year, he likely wouldn't be available.

It's a fairly decent bet in this case, I guess. Hoglander will have to be flipped later for more than they sacrificed to get him though, or there's no point to it. Cups aren't on the line the next 4 years.

Everything's dependent on cost, of course. But Dubas either didn't prioritize or couldn't manage to land a 1st for Guentzel, so I don't really expect it for Petts.

Yeah, but he compensated with quantity amounting to more than the value of a single late 1st.
You're assuming Dubas got shut down for requests for a 1st. Maybe he just preferred the package, given the state of the farm?
Hard to imagine no 1sts were on the table for Guentzel, a proven playoff performer.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It's a fairly decent bet in this case, I guess. Hoglander will have to be flipped later for more than they sacrificed to get him though, or there's no point to it. Cups aren't on the line the next 4 years.

Yeah, but he compensated with quantity amounting to more than the value of a single late 1st.
You're assuming Dubas got shut down for requests for a 1st. Maybe he just preferred the package, given the state of the farm?
Hard to imagine no 1sts were on the table for Guentzel, a proven playoff performer.

Well, that's why I said he either didn't prioritize or couldn't manage to land a 1st.

As for Hoglander, there's always the idea that he thinks players like he and Tomasino are young and promising enough that they could potentially be useful support players for the next wave of Pens stars.

Any young player with pedigree and some proven production who's had some short term struggles should be in our sights...Dach, Pinto, Farabee, Drysdale, whoever.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Well, his career to date from ages 20-24 has him producing at a 17 goal/31 point per 82 game rate. Seems like a pretty good bet if the goal is to buy low on promising young players with speed. If he were producing at that rate this year, he likely wouldn't be available.

Everything's dependent on cost, of course. But Dubas either didn't prioritize or couldn't manage to land a 1st for Guentzel, so I don't really expect it for Petts.

He landed a much better return then a late 1st if you ask me,
Pono and Koivunen are players that help right away in the farm and have potential to play in the top 9 some day. Lucius we have no idea how it plays out but in worse case he ends up in WBS.

On top of that, the 2nd round pick ( Brunicke ) was a fantastic pick and people forget that it had conditions to it and could have turned into a 1st.

Finally there is Buntiing as well, who will most probably be traded this season or next and should bring back something decent as well like a 2nd +.

Very hard to blame KD on this move and I was a big fan of Jake, but let's face it, he was as good as gone in the summer anyways

 

[K Fleur]

Well, that's why I said he either didn't prioritize or couldn't manage to land a 1st.

As for Hoglander, there's always the idea that he thinks players like he and Tomasino are young and promising enough that they could potentially be useful support players for the next wave of Pens stars.

Any young player with pedigree and some proven production who's had some short term struggles should be in our sights...Dach, Pinto, Farabee, Drysdale, whoever.

I would like to get Farabee so I could stop watching him score against the Penguins.

Philly’s not making that move though.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Both those guys are under the age of 27

We need a general offday thread so Salary Cap doesn't get clogged with people complaining about Matt Nieto.

I think complaining about Matt Nieto should be on every thread opened in HFboards, regardless of team (or sport) between now and the end of time.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Regardless of if he’s worth it- Hoglander is literally the definition of cost controlled. for 4 years. fixed cost with no uncertainty.

With the cap going up in the next two years, this is huge. I forget which show said this but GMs are looking for players with term so they'll be super cheap when the cap jumps. Guys on 1 or 2 year deals aren't as attractive cause they'll be negotiating with an extra 5-15 mill on the cap.

 

[Andy99]

lol..nothing about the coach per usual…

Rebuild? Retool? How the Penguins should approach the rest of 2024-25

Though Pittsburgh's core of Crosby, Malkin and Letang remain, they are outside of the playoffs. Time to build for the future? Or take one more swing?

www.espn.com

 

[AuroraBorealis]

lol..nothing about the coach per usual…

Rebuild? Retool? How the Penguins should approach the rest of 2024-25

Though Pittsburgh's core of Crosby, Malkin and Letang remain, they are outside of the playoffs. Time to build for the future? Or take one more swing?

www.espn.com

Rebuild. Topic solved.

 

[SEALBound]

He landed a much better return then a late 1st if you ask me,
Pono and Koivunen are players that help right away in the farm and have potential to play in the top 9 some day. Lucius we have no idea how it plays out but in worse case he ends up in WBS.

On top of that, the 2nd round pick ( Brunicke ) was a fantastic pick and people forget that it had conditions to it and could have turned into a 1st.

Finally there is Buntiing as well, who will most probably be traded this season or next and should bring back something decent as well like a 2nd +.

Very hard to blame KD on this move and I was a big fan of Jake, but let's face it, he was as good as gone in the summer anyways

For a pure UFA rental, the return was fine. Some yokels here just want to bitch because it's Dubas. The late first would have been nice, but when you step back and remember that draft rankings in the late first and second rounds were all over the board, its tough to get too upset (objectively speaking). If there was ever a draft where picking between 31 and 42 probably doesn't matter, it was this draft. Plus, as you point out, Brunicke seems like a really good pick and I'm happy we got him. Dubas's goal was to get help for now and build for later. He did that. At the very least, Bunting is a roster player, and Pono+Brunicke are trending to be roster players as well. Really hard to complain, honestly.

lol..nothing about the coach per usual…

Rebuild? Retool? How the Penguins should approach the rest of 2024-25

Though Pittsburgh's core of Crosby, Malkin and Letang remain, they are outside of the playoffs. Time to build for the future? Or take one more swing?

www.espn.com

I swear, she showed ChatGPT a series of HFBoards discussion and had it write a summary article, lol.

To save everyone some time, here: She speculates that Dubas will continue the trend of Glass and Tomasino. Specifically mentions: Nick Robertson, Luke Evangelista, Jayden Struble, Justin Barron, and Trevor Zegras as all guys who could benefit from a change of scenery trade.

I don't think the Leafs will have to pay to send out Robertson but honestly, I would be okay exploring a trade with them around him. Like Hoglander, I think he's a guy that's probably not in the best position to succeed. If they could work out something Nieto+4th for him, I would do it. Then using the standard Hogs, Mynio, 2nd for Pettersson trade as well, we might be able to do a mini-retool right at the TDL while gaining assets.

Nieto+4th for Robertson
Pettersson for Hoglander, Mynio, 2nd
DOC for a 2nd
Beauvillier for a 4th
Neds for a 3rd

Raks-Sid-Rust
Hoglander-Geno-Tomasino
Robertson-Lizotte-Bunting
Hayes-Acciari-Glass

Still leaves you with Puljujarvi, Pono, and McGroarty that can sub in at forward as well.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Rebuild. Topic solved.

I don't think we will be capable with our lineup if he doesn't start dumping players away. We will be and remain a team that's going to keep drafting between 12 and 16 and it's not good enough IMO to turn the page. I think a retool would be preferable with our lineup and turning into trades of players that are already drafted along side drafting our own long term and hoping for a good UFA signing per year

 

[pistolpete11]

With the cap going up in the next two years, this is huge. I forget which show said this but GMs are looking for players with term so they'll be super cheap when the cap jumps. Guys on 1 or 2 year deals aren't as attractive cause they'll be negotiating with an extra 5-15 mill on the cap.

We've got some of those, too.

 

[Bishop7979]

Like I said, there is no reason he should be here after the deadline.

But, acting like he is a nothing burger is weird.

Calls McCann, who had 14 goals and 32pts in 43games at 24years old during his last year as a penguin a "nothing burger" all the time....

But is mad that someone implied that DOC, who is two years older and whose best season was one more point over 30 more gms, is replaceable.

 

[Gurglesons]

Calls McCann, who had 14 goals and 32pts in 43games at 24years old during his last year as a penguin a "nothing burger" all the time....

But is mad that someone implied that DOC, who is two years older and whose best season was one more point over 30 more gms, is replaceable.

McCann is the type that scores empty calorie points.

DOC is the type that plays a depth role that wins playoff series.

Not hard to understand if you grasp what GMs value.

 

[cookthebooks]

mccann didnt exactly set the world on fire but doc has played 2 career playoff games and has never scored a playoff point fwiw

 

[SEALBound]

McCann is the type that scores empty calorie points.

DOC is the type that plays a depth role that wins playoff series.

Not hard to understand if you grasp what GMs value.

Which is why McCann got a 5x5 and is a top line LW for Seattle and DOC went undrafted is got a 2yr, 925k extension.

And this is coming from a guy that really likes DOC. Your comparison to him and McCann is straight up foolish. It's shit like this that makes people roll their eyes are your hot takes.

 

[Gurglesons]

Which is why McCann got a 5x5 and is a top line LW for Seattle and DOC went undrafted is got a 2yr, 925k extension.

And this is coming from a guy that really likes DOC. Your comparison to him and McCann is straight up foolish. It's shit like this that makes people roll their eyes are your hot takes.

Ryan Graves got 4.5 x 6.

Contracts don't dictate a player's trade value.

DOC is a 925k player that fits into any role needed for a playoff team and has size, speed, and tenacity.

Contending teams are way more interested in that than a perimeter goal scorer who has 1 goal in 20 playoff games.

But, you as always miss the forest for the trees.

Nobody is denying Jared McCann is a solid top six forward. The issue is that he wasn't ever going to be used like that here and his production is largely amplified much like Granlund's because he plays on a bad team that utilizes him in a way that will keep them a bad team.

That's what makes his loss a nothing burger. It's why Evan Rodrigues and Danton Heinen seemlessly replaced him the year after expansion.

 

[SEALBound]

Ryan Graves got 4.5 x 6.

Contracts don't dictate a player's trade value.

DOC is a 925k player that fits into any role needed for a playoff team and has size, speed, and tenacity.

Contending teams are way more interested in that than a perimeter goal scorer who has 1 goal in 20 playoff games.

But, you as always miss the forest for the trees.

So your great comeback is now comparing McCann's 5x5 to Graves. M'kay. Cool, cool, cool.

Not like DOC has a tremendous playoff record with his whopping 5mins over 2 games with zero points.

If both players were currently sitting on a $925k contract that was about to expire at the end of the year, who do you think gets more in a return? The top line LW with 23pts or a bottom 6 guy with 9 who hasn't scored in 10+ games?

You're anti-Jared McCann because you're compensating over the fact that Hextall made one of the worst trades in recent NHL history at the ED. It always comes back to an odd obsession with Hextall with you. Again, as I've stated numerous time, it's an absolutely bizarre ship to want to go down with.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If you don't have a DOC, you're gonna be looking for a DOC.

 

[Gurglesons]

So your great comeback is now comparing McCann's 5x5 to Graves. M'kay. Cool, cool, cool.

Not like DOC has a tremendous playoff record with his whopping 5mins over 2 games with zero points.

If both players were currently sitting on a $925k contract that was about to expire at the end of the year, who do you think gets more in a return? The top line LW with 23pts or a bottom 6 guy with 9 who hasn't scored in 10+ games?

You're anti-Jared McCann because you're compensating over the fact that Hextall made one of the worst trades in recent NHL history at the ED. It always comes back to an odd obsession with Hextall. Again, as I've stated numerous time, it's an absolutely bizarre ship to want to go down with.

DOC gets more value.

I was advocating for us to trade for Jared McCann before you probably even knew who he was.

If you don't have a DOC, you're gonna be looking for a DOC.

I'm not sure what's confusing about this. 925k, big body, plays all positions. This is what every playoff team likes to add. This is why EF is reporting there are a bunch of suitors.

Also factor in teams could potentially get him for another 2-3 years on a cheap contract and it makes him a highly attractive commodity. It's not rocket science.

 

[Gurglesons]

Also, Hextall made the worst trade in recent NHL history, but our current GM literally lost Jared McCann for nothing to protect Alex Kerfoot and Justin Holl.

 

[SEALBound]

DOC gets more value.

I was advocating for us to trade for Jared McCann before you probably even knew who he was.



I'm not sure what's confusing about this. 925k, big body, plays all positions. This is what every playoff team likes to add. This is why EF is reporting there are a bunch of suitors.

Also factor in teams could potentially get him for another 2-3 years on a cheap contract and it makes him a highly attractive commodity. It's not rocket science.

I'm gonna put that reply right next to the "Guentzel should have returns the 1st overall pick" post for future reference.

No one is arguing that DOC wouldn't have a bunch of suiters.

Also, Hextall made the worst trade in recent NHL history, but our current GM literally lost Jared McCann for nothing to protect Alex Kerfoot and Justin Holl.

And Hextall opted to protect Jeff Carter. Just so we're clear.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

For a pure UFA rental, the return was fine. Some yokels here just want to bitch because it's Dubas. The late first would have been nice, but when you step back and remember that draft rankings in the late first and second rounds were all over the board, its tough to get too upset (objectively speaking). If there was ever a draft where picking between 31 and 42 probably doesn't matter, it was this draft. Plus, as you point out, Brunicke seems like a really good pick and I'm happy we got him. Dubas's goal was to get help for now and build for later. He did that. At the very least, Bunting is a roster player, and Pono+Brunicke are trending to be roster players as well. Really hard to complain, honestly.

I swear, she showed ChatGPT a series of HFBoards discussion and had it write a summary article, lol.

To save everyone some time, here: She speculates that Dubas will continue the trend of Glass and Tomasino. Specifically mentions: Nick Robertson, Luke Evangelista, Jayden Struble, Justin Barron, and Trevor Zegras as all guys who could benefit from a change of scenery trade.

I don't think the Leafs will have to pay to send out Robertson but honestly, I would be okay exploring a trade with them around him. Like Hoglander, I think he's a guy that's probably not in the best position to succeed. If they could work out something Nieto+4th for him, I would do it. Then using the standard Hogs, Mynio, 2nd for Pettersson trade as well, we might be able to do a mini-retool right at the TDL while gaining assets.

Nieto+4th for Robertson
Pettersson for Hoglander, Mynio, 2nd
DOC for a 2nd
Beauvillier for a 4th
Neds for a 3rd

Raks-Sid-Rust
Hoglander-Geno-Tomasino
Robertson-Lizotte-Bunting
Hayes-Acciari-Glass

Still leaves you with Puljujarvi, Pono, and McGroarty that can sub in at forward as well.

I don't know why articles keep mentioning Zegras. He's got the *talent* that we should be looking at, but anyone who follows this club even a small amount should know he is *not* the type of player that will be targeted by a Sullivan-coached club. He's literally everything Sullivan hates in a player rolled up into one package.

 

[SEALBound]

Colorado seems like the most logical landing spot for DOC, honestly. They have Ross on LTIR but he'll be back eventually. That doesn't leave them with much cap space. They could fit DOC by sending a guy to the AHL.

If you can pre-discuss a longer-ish term deal with DOC like a 4yr for $2mil per type deal, I wonder if you could pry Ritchie from them. Maybe something like DOC+Poulin for Ritchie.