Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Ryder71]

"Went out of his way". I mean this is standard GM-speak.
But you are apparently the ONLY person who can read tea leaves and pig entrails on this site. !

Clearly!

And no it's not ''standard''. Not if you listened to various GM's over the years. Particularly GM's who didn't hire that particular coach in the first place. Time will tell how this ends up. Context is important, nuance is as well. Since you believe you're the expert here on that front, cite an example to the contrary,

 

[deakka]

I sure hope they trade Jake. But I have a feeling he will either walk for free, which should be borderline fireable for Dubas if that happens. Other outcome is that we sign him for too much for 8 years. I dont like either of those outcomes tbh..

 

[HandshakeLine]

Trade them all; god will know his own.

 

[Ryder71]

Maybe it wasn’t him per se, I didn’t listen, but I reviewed this article about his statements and this quote:

Sportsnet had an interesting twist on the reported off-limits status of core players, leading to speculation that Dubas might keep the top players (including Jake Guentzel) on with the team through the deadline.

Report: Penguins "listening" to offers for just about everyone

Reilly Smith among those with interest around the league

www.pensburgh.com

That's bullshit! Unless you sign Jake long term, which I myself am not in favor of you trade Jake. You trade him or it will be an unmitigated disaster. You absolutely 100% have got to start accruing young assets NOW!

Trade them all; god will know his own.

He knows me, you, not so much.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Clearly!

And no it's not ''standard''. Not if you listened to various GM's over the years. Particularly GM's who didn't hire that particular coach in the first place. Time will tell how this ends up. Context is important, nuance is as well. Since you believe you're the expert here on that front, cite an example to the contrary,

I've repeatedly ask you to provide an example of a GM ripping his coach in public.
I'm going to take your non reply that such an example doesn't exist or you'd have presented it by now

 

[Ryder71]

I sure hope they trade Jake. But I have a feeling he will either walk for free, which should be borderline fireable for Dubas if that happens. Other outcome is that we sign him for too much for 8 years. I dont like either of those outcomes tbh..

Agreed, but letting him walk and garnering nothing in the process isn't something you do. That's utter incompetence, that'd be lunacy. I don't believe he would be that mind numbingly absurd!

I've repeatedly ask you to provide an example of a GM ripping his coach in public.
I'm going to take your non reply that such an example doesn't exist or you'd have presented it by now

There is a decided difference between ripping a coach or praising him without being prompted, I'm talking of the latter.

 

[Maninthebox87]

I have gotten to the point where I’ll be pleasantly surprised if they make a run here. I’d like to see them sell off some guys and make some “hockey trades” while clearing some cap space for the offseason. I think it was the 06-07 season when Philly wasn’t having a good year “ I believe we beat them 8 times that year” but sold off some guys including Peter forsberg and brought in guys that helped them get far in the playoffs in one offseason. Made it the conference finals and the cup finals shortly after their retool. Not saying I wanna be Philly or anything but I remember thinking “they suck why are they trying to bring in guys at the deadline”.

 

[eXile3]

I can’t wait for us to trade a bunch of noncore guys and then somehow play better and out of the 1st pick but not in the playoffs. I can see it happening already.

 

[Maninthebox87]

I can’t wait for us to trade a bunch of noncore guys and then somehow play better and out of the 1st pick but not in the playoffs. I can see it happening already.

I see this as a likely outcome as well unfortunately

 

[deakka]

I can’t wait for us to trade a bunch of noncore guys and then somehow play better and out of the 1st pick but not in the playoffs. I can see it happening already.

yeah. probably will get 11 overall so we cant slide it either since the EK is ony top 10 protected.

 

[Ryder71]

I can’t wait for us to trade a bunch of noncore guys and then somehow play better and out of the 1st pick but not in the playoffs. I can see it happening already.

Dubas NEEDS to trade Jake. I can't imagine him letting him walk for nothing. He's an analytics guy (at least to some extent). That would be poor asset management. And the standings pretty much tell the tale that we're not going anywhere. So yes, trading Jake and extracting the best value possible should be a top priority here. Hopefully we get tid bits today with his presser. We'll see.

 

[Maninthebox87]

I was initially against trading Jake but if they can get a Jordan Staal like package “a player for now, prospect,1st rounder” I’d do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Ryder71]

I was initially against trading Jake but if they can get a Jordan Staal like package “a player for now, prospect,1st rounder” I’d do it in a heartbeat.

That's probably the type of trade it would be. We have to take salary back, so a depth NHLer would likely be paramount to such a deal for cap reasons.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Trade everyone that has a semblance of value:

Smith: to FLA, VGK, DAL for expiring contract(s), prospects
Rakell: same as above
Guentzel: to a contender for a 1st, near ready prospect, and stuff to make the cap work
Pettersson: same as above
Rust: to DET for Fischer/Maatta and whatever
Carter: to a contender @50% for whatever
Eller: to a contender for a near ready prospect
Jarry: to CAR for Necas+
Nedeljkovic: to EDM for 2 2nds


Yes, I'm dreaming.

 

[Maninthebox87]

I think they need to sell high on Ned he’s gonna be due a big ray raise and if Blomqvist is the real deal I’d use him as the backup the rest of the way.

 

[eXile3]

Dubas NEEDS to trade Jake. I can't imagine him letting him walk for nothing. He's an analytics guy (at least to some extent). That would be poor asset management. And the standings pretty much tell the tale that we're not going anywhere. So yes, trading Jake and extracting the best value possible should be a top priority here. Hopefully we get tid bits today with his presser. We'll see.

If he’s confident Jake won’t resign then Jake is essentially a rental and we’re not making the playoffs so I agree.

 

[SEALBound]

That's bullshit! Unless you sign Jake long term, which I myself am not in favor of you trade Jake. You trade him or it will be an unmitigated disaster. You absolutely 100% have got to start accruing young assets NOW!

Agreed. Draft capital and space should be the priority here. If they keep Jake and resign him, I'm generally okay with that but if there is to be change, that means having to send out the likes of Rust, Rakell, Smith, Eller, Acciari, Nieto (not all but at least two from that group), otherwise you are bringing back the same old crap.

I think there are two trades that Dubas could do that could be a good move for both sides:

Smith for Bunting
Graves+Rakell for Huberdeau

Those are high-risk moves, but both Hubes and Bunting offer skill sets that we don't have. I think Hubes could be a Kessel-like addition and Bunting could be the "straw that stirs the drink" disturber that we desperately need. At the very least, it's a major change to the roster.

Send Acciari out for a 4th. Send Nieto out for a 6th. Try to find a young, available 3C. With Perron being a UFA, I wonder if Detroit would have internet in a Copp for Rust swap?

Jake-Sid-Bunting
Huberdeau-Malkin-Puustinen
DOC-Copp-FA
Poulin-Eller-Puljujarvi

FA would ideally be someone like Sprong, Max Domi, or Roslovic or possibly Yager if he can make it out of camp.

 

[SEALBound]

Trade everyone that has a semblance of value:

Smith: to FLA, VGK, DAL for expiring contract(s), prospects
Rakell: same as above
Guentzel: to a contender for a 1st, near ready prospect, and stuff to make the cap work
Pettersson: same as above
Rust: to DET for Fischer/Maatta and whatever
Carter: to a contender @50% for whatever
Eller: to a contender for a near ready prospect
Jarry: to CAR for Necas+
Nedeljkovic: to EDM for 2 2nds


Yes, I'm dreaming.

Dubas could really go nuclear and reshape this roster for both today and tomorrow.

Jake @ 50% to Colorado for 2024 1st conditional (WCF or higher, 1st. Else 2nd) + 2025 1st (no conditions) + 2026 3rd
Pettersson to NJD for Bahl + 2024 1st + 2025 3rd
Jarry to Carolina for Necas
Rust to Detroit for Copp
Rakell+Graves to Calgary for Huberdeau
NJD 1st + COL 2026 3rd + Acciari to Ottawa for Josh Norris
Smith @ 50% to Vegas for Hague

Huberdeau-Crosby-Malkin
DOC-Norris-Necas
Zucker-Copp-Yager/Puustinen
Poulin-Eller-Puljujarvi

Hague-Letang
Bahl-Karlsson
POJ-Ludvig

Nedelkovich-Blomqvist/MAF

While having 2 2024 1sts (PIT/COL), 1 2025 1st (COL)

Graves (28) replaced by Bahl (23)
Pettersson (28) replaced by Hague (25)
Rust (31) replaced by Copp (29)
Malkin (38) to wing, replaced by Norris (24)
Jake (29) replaced by Huberdeau (30)
Rakell (30) replaced by Necas (25)

Major surgery but it completely resets the overall roster clock back a ways and provides a decent "core" to transition out of the Sid/Geno era.

I think they need to sell high on Ned he’s gonna be due a big ray raise and if Blomqvist is the real deal I’d use him as the backup the rest of the way.

Or...they could trade Jarry for a major return, resign Neds and ride a Neds-Blomqvist duo. Then hold out hope that Murashov comes over and is our new Shesterkin or Vasi.

As stated above, if you can pull Necas+, that goes a ways in help us reboot the roster.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If there is any chance at all of trading Jarry... I don't really understand why you'd dish Ned, instead.

 

[Maninthebox87]

I wouldn’t be against trading Jarry for a significant piece coming back. If there was a move to be had with him I’d prefer to keep Ned then I think.

 

[PensFutures]

Dubas could really go nuclear and reshape this roster for both today and tomorrow.

I love all your hypothetical blow it up scenarios, I really do. Its like Goldblums chaos theory from Jurassic Park. All I ask is to leave about 900k in cap space so when we inevitably have 3 injuries we can call up the proper replacement and not have to play 11D 7F or the time in 2014 when they played with 5D until the playoffs started.

 

[Ryder71]

Dubas could really go nuclear and reshape this roster for both today and tomorrow.

Jake @ 50% to Colorado for 2024 1st conditional (WCF or higher, 1st. Else 2nd) + 2025 1st (no conditions) + 2026 3rd
Pettersson to NJD for Bahl + 2024 1st + 2025 3rd
Jarry to Carolina for Necas
Rust to Detroit for Copp
Rakell+Graves to Calgary for Huberdeau
NJD 1st + COL 2026 3rd + Acciari to Ottawa for Josh Norris
Smith @ 50% to Vegas for Hague

Huberdeau-Crosby-Malkin
DOC-Norris-Necas
Zucker-Copp-Yager/Puustinen
Poulin-Eller-Puljujarvi

Hague-Letang
Bahl-Karlsson
POJ-Ludvig

Nedelkovich-Blomqvist/MAF

While having 2 2024 1sts (PIT/COL), 1 2025 1st (COL)

Graves (28) replaced by Bahl (23)
Pettersson (28) replaced by Hague (25)
Rust (31) replaced by Copp (29)
Malkin (38) to wing, replaced by Norris (24)
Jake (29) replaced by Huberdeau (30)
Rakell (30) replaced by Necas (25)

Major surgery but it completely resets the overall roster clock back a ways and provides a decent "core" to transition out of the Sid/Geno era.


Or...they could trade Jarry for a major return, resign Neds and ride a Neds-Blomqvist duo. Then hold out hope that Murashov comes over and is our new Shesterkin or Vasi.

As stated above, if you can pull Necas+, that goes a ways in help us reboot the roster.

100% agree with you on Jake, Petts return! Or at least the equivalent with high end prospect.

 

[JTG]

After last night, it's time to push the NUKE button.

There are a lot of timelines working against each other. The parts are worth more apart than they are together.

If Dubas can claw out of this one, I'll be really impressed.

 

[SEALBound]

100% agree with you on Jake, Petts return! Or at least the equivalent with high end prospect.

Colorado has nothing for prospects, that's why I suggested two 1sts, one being conditional.

The NJD guys didn't balk at that return so I went with it.

 

[The Old Master]

yeah. probably will get 11 overall so we cant slide it either since the EK is ony top 10 protected.

that still might be better than giving them next years pick
edit;i just don't see this year as a very deep draft.(as of now) but that could change if no one wants to draft a Russian this year.