Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

[Honour Over Glory]

Yeah iirc, but who is trading for a guy on an expiring contract if his hand/wrist/finger is broken?

Evander Kane was traded when he had that f***ed up shoulder, I know blokes on LTIR are traded all the time, like Datsyuk who retired an Arizona Coyote. The thing is the expiring contract part, the examples I used were players that were signed already. It would depend on how long term his injury is. If he’s only set to be out for a few weeks, a team will trade for him knowing he’s on LTIR. I think the other example I can think of is Gustav Nyquist, where Guerin traded for him and the NHL looked into it as cap circumvention, but Nyquist returned and played for them for 3 games (had 5pts and 5pts in the playoffs as well in 6 games).

Nyquist then signed with the Predators the following season. So yes, there’s an example right there. Nyquist was injured, dealt to the Wild, NHL said hey you’re cheating the cap, Guerin said piss off and Nyquist actually played. So if a team sees that Jake’s injury isn’t something that will hurt him for the playoffs, they can deal for him and I think given that Jake could be on LTIR in that situation, he’d be even more valuable to a team that can still add given that. But I think a team will deal for him earlier if that was the situation to let the league do their investigation of cap circumvention and blah blah.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Let’s remember that Puljujarvi is playing on Malkin’s wing right now, Puustinen is the player deserving of that spot and Puljujarvi is in Game 4 with 0pts. Jesse has 0pts in 4 games and his ice time has steadily increased each game. Puustinen got jobbed.

I can’t wait for the Chad Ruhwedel extension.

Bitching about Puljujarvi, one of the only players to have a pulse in the last few games, is just par for the course for you.

Puustinen, by the way, has been invisible since going to WBS. Maybe if he showed something he'd be on his way back up.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Bitching about Puljujarvi, one of the only players to have a pulse in the last few games, is just par for the course for you.

Puustinen, by the way, has been invisible since going to WBS. Maybe if he showed something he'd be on his way back up.

Mate, go f*** yourself.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think Meier is a pretty good comparable to Guentzel.

Retained at 50%, didn't he essentially land 2 1sts and a bunch of junk?

That would be a good comparable for sure. I would try to get a center in the “bunch of junk” from one of the teams and see if Dubas can move Rakell and Smith as well so they can call up Poulin and Puustinen the rest of the season to get them games in the NHL and see if Puljujarvi can at least gain some confidence.

Tough to feel hopeful with a coach like this though.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Mate, go f*** yourself.

So Puustinen doesn't have to earn his way? Dude has five goals and 11 points in WBS this year.

Puljujarvi had double hip surgery and had four goals and five assists in 13 games.

I'm all about getting younger, but the youngsters gotta earn it, too. Puustinen made his own bed.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So Puustinen doesn't have to earn his way? Dude has five goals and 11 points in WBS this year.

Puljujarvi had double hip surgery and had four goals and five assists in 13 games.

I'm all about getting younger, but the youngsters gotta earn it, too. Puustinen made his own bed.

Shut the f*** up already. The irony in your usual dumb f*** hot takes are that Jesse had 0pts in 4 games in WBS until he put up points again as he settled in. You’re stupid f*** comment about Puustinen is what? That since being back for 4 games he has 1 assist? Oh no! I forgot how many forwards are killing it in WBS right now.

You’re not all about jack shit. You’re usually playing devils advocate for the dumbest shit possible.

 

[Gurglesons]

So Puustinen doesn't have to earn his way? Dude has five goals and 11 points in WBS this year.

Puljujarvi had double hip surgery and had four goals and five assists in 13 games.

I'm all about getting younger, but the youngsters gotta earn it, too. Puustinen made his own bed.

Puustinen has as many points as Jeff Carter in the NHL.

 

[66-30-33]

So Puustinen doesn't have to earn his way? Dude has five goals and 11 points in WBS this year.

Puljujarvi had double hip surgery and had four goals and five assists in 13 games.

I'm all about getting younger, but the youngsters gotta earn it, too. Puustinen made his own bed.

Pus was good here when on the top 6 and PP1, he was producing. Got Sullied because he was producing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Pus was good here when on the top 6 and PP1, he was producing. Got Sullied because he was producing.

That ignorant tit has had an axe to grind with Puustinen before he got called up, bitched about why we had such a fascination with Puustinen and has never really been a fan of the player. No one is saying Puustinen is the answer to the Pens struggles, but he was an answer for Malkin’s line more than Colin White for a brief moment or Puljujarvi is. I think Puljujarvi being thrust into Malkin’s wing is unfair to Jesse really. Puustinen was a good fit there and they didn’t want him there at all.

So now Puustinen is in WBS, on an anemic offensive squad that has a player that has been gone for 16 games still sitting 3rd for Pts. WBS is 10th out of 15 teams in the East for Offense. This is not an offensive juggernaut, they’re barely average at scoring there with a differential of -11. Puustinen will produce again, he’s always found his way back to producing, the MVP for WBS is easily Blomqvist though, legit stud of a goalie.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Puustinen has as many points as Jeff Carter in the NHL.

Then he should make it harder for this management team to keep him in the AHL.

I'm sick of the idea that guys just need a chance. No, they should f'in seize their moment.

As much as we bag on Bryan Rust these days, that guy busted his ass to get opportunities. He made himself valuable in every situation so he could be trusted, and then he started producing.

Guentzel comes up, scores twice in his debut, eventually gets sent back down. Does he pout? No, he lights the AHL up and forces the Pens to bring him up.

Puustinen, Zohorna, Nylander -- they should be breaking the door down. The only one coming close to doing that is Poulin, and he can't stay healthy. But at least he's producing, he's playing like an NHL guy, and he's embracing playing multiple positions in all situations. The other guys? Bunch of passengers.

Hell, even O'Connor kept busting his ass. He's going to peak as a bottom sixer, but he's at least figured out how to contribute.

 

[Gurglesons]

Then he should make it harder for this management team to keep him in the AHL.

I'm sick of the idea that guys just need a chance. No, they should f'in seize their moment.

As much as we bag on Bryan Rust these days, that guy busted his ass to get opportunities. He made himself valuable in every situation so he could be trusted, and then he started producing.

Guentzel comes up, scores twice in his debut, eventually gets sent back down. Does he pout? No, he lights the AHL up and forces the Pens to bring him up.

Puustinen, Zohorna, Nylander -- they should be breaking the door down. The only one coming close to doing that is Poulin, and he can't stay healthy. But at least he's producing, he's playing like an NHL guy, and he's embracing playing multiple positions in all situations. The other guys? Bunch of passengers.

Puustinen since his call up produced the same amount of points as Reilly Smith, more than Carter, Harkins, Acciari, and White.

If he is a passenger what exactly are those guys.

And don’t give me some “they PK bullshit”.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Puustinen since his call up produced the same amount of points as Reilly Smith, more than Carter, Harkins, Acciari, and White.

If he is a passenger what exactly are those guys.

And don’t give me some “they PK bullshit”.

Everyone but Acciari is riding in steerage. If not for his injuries, his production would have come back to career norms. The rest aren't NHL players. Smith was, but he's too busy pouting.

And Puustinen is a passenger because the second he got removed from the top six, he disappeared. Everyone is upset about the lack of production in the bottom six, but he contributed to that lack of production for over half of his games this year in the NHL.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hey, can't fire a coach when the team's got the 2nd best goals against in the East!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Puustinen since his call up produced the same amount of points as Reilly Smith, more than Carter, Harkins, Acciari, and White.

If he is a passenger what exactly are those guys.

And don’t give me some “they PK bullshit”.

It must be bizarre to that wanker that the bottom 6 wasn’t producing no matter who was in it, but the fact that the 2nd line needs production and his argument is that “when taken out of the top 6 he disappeared” then I mean, what’s the current issue we are seeing? Production from the 2nd line down. Imagine shitting all over a winger that helped the 2nd line while the bottom 6 still had issues and then when put in that same situation, had issues like everyone else does, that’s his entire argument.

That’s some Sullivan level ignorance.

 

[Gurglesons]

Everyone but Acciari is riding in steerage. If not for his injuries, his production would have come back to career norms. The rest aren't NHL players. Smith was, but he's too busy pouting.

And Puustinen is a passenger because the second he got removed from the top six, he disappeared. Everyone is upset about the lack of production in the bottom six, but he contributed to that lack of production for over half of his games this year in the NHL.

Bryan Rust in the 15-16 regular season played a total of 10 minutes of PK time in 40+ games and scored 11 points.

Connor Sheary in 15-16 regular season played 44 games and scored 10 points.

Puustinen has played 21 games and had 9 points.

I ask again. Are you Mike Sullivan or Josh Yohe?

Puustinen has done everything a young player did in 15-16 to get ice time and for some reason got waived for Colin White and Harkins. Those two players have combined for 9 minutes of PK total.

 

[reino]

Do you guys understand that Pulujärvi couldn't produce with peak Mcdavid and Draisaitl? He's is 4th liner at best

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Everyone but Acciari is riding in steerage. If not for his injuries, his production would have come back to career norms. The rest aren't NHL players. Smith was, but he's too busy pouting.

And Puustinen is a passenger because the second he got removed from the top six, he disappeared. Everyone is upset about the lack of production in the bottom six, but he contributed to that lack of production for over half of his games this year in the NHL.

This sounds like a Josh Yohe tweet.

Imagine that, a player whose skillset requires offensive situations no longer produces when he's getting 6 minutes per night with offensively inept linemates.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They would rather Malkin change his game and have a self confidence issue than use him with the winger that he actually produced with and had some great games together.

Do you guys understand that Pulujärvi couldn't produce with peak Mcdavid and Draisaitl? He's is 4th liner at best

Yes but his pulse! He apparently has some stuffs that something something!

Let me be clear too about Puljujarvi - I think he’s looked ok, but a player like him shouldn’t have been recalled as soon as he was and Puustinen should have been tried in the top 6 again before he was sent back down. Sullivan created these issues, Dubas is going to have a hell of a time trying to fix all of these problems that are not fixable.

This sounds like a Josh Yohe tweet.

Imagine that, a player whose skillset requires offensive situations no longer produces when he's getting 6 minutes per night with offensively inept linemates.

How dare you come here with logic!

Actually him being Josh Yohe would make a ton of sense now that I think about it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

How dare you come here with logic!

Actually him being Josh Yohe would make a ton of sense now that I think about it.

I hope he's not actually Josh Yohe because we're not allowed personal attacks on posters and I really like ripping Yohe apart every time he tweets some dumb shit that shows he has no clue what he's covering.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Bryan Rust in the 15-16 regular season played a total of 10 minutes of PK time in 40+ games and scored 11 points.

Connor Sheary in 15-16 regular season played 44 games and scored 10 points.

Puustinen has played 21 games and had 9 points.

I ask again. Are you Mike Sullivan or Josh Yohe?

Puustinen has done everything a young player did in 15-16 to get ice time and for some reason got waived for Colin White and Harkins. Those two players have combined for 9 minutes of PK total.

The best part about Harkins is that he doesn’t even play on the PK really. He averages 4 seconds of PK time per game. 4 SECONDS.

Harkins playing as long as he has been is really not based in any sense of logic for an argument for him. He does nothing to push the needle for anything on this team other than keep a 4th line spot warm for maybe 5-6 minutes a game. Colin White plays 54 seconds a game on the PK on average.

They’re veterans and that’s all there is to it, Sullivan gives all the rope he can to the veteran players, the youth get no benefit of the doubt whatsoever.

 

[Gurglesons]

The best part about Harkins is that he doesn’t even play on the PK really. He averages 4 seconds of PK time per game. 4 SECONDS.

Harkins playing as long as he has been is really not based in any sense of logic for an argument for him. He does nothing to push the needle for anything on this team other than keep a 4th line spot warm for maybe 5-6 minutes a game. Colin White plays 54 seconds a game on the PK on average.

They’re veterans and that’s all there is to it, Sullivan gives all the rope he can to the veteran players, the youth get no benefit of the doubt whatsoever.

I mean that's my point. Neither of White or Harkins is some big time replacement for Acciari or "defensive ability".

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I hope he's not actually Josh Yohe because we're not allowed personal attacks on posters and I really like ripping Yohe apart every time he tweets some dumb shit that shows he has no clue what he's covering.

Yohe is the worst, I read his stuff and I wonder how low the bar is for being a Penguins beat writer, like do you even need your GED to be considered for a Pens writer and hired by The Athletic?

I can’t wait to see his article blaming Malkin for this game.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yohe is the worst, I read his stuff and I wonder how low the bar is for being a Penguins beat writer, like do you even need your GED to be considered for a Pens writer and hired by The Athletic?

I can’t wait to see his article blaming Malkin for this game.

Here’s what we know right now (brace yourselves):

• The Penguins haven’t scored more than three goals in a game since Jan. 8.
• Since the NHL All-Star Break, the Penguins have eight goals in four games.
• The Erik Karlsson experience has been a flop.
• Ryan Graves has been something of a disaster.
• The bottom six can’t score … at all.
• Evgeni Malkin reverted to his old trick of getting fired up by challenging himself in a meeting with reporters and was then invisible again.
• Sidney Crosby has been oddly quiet since the NHL All-Star Game.
• Things are so bad for Rickard Rakell that his monthly goal was correctly wiped out by a high stick on the puck ruling.
• Bryan Rust just isn’t himself, and I suspect he isn’t healthy.
• Reilly Smith isn’t the guy who was an impactful player in Vegas.
• The power play was booed out of the building Wednesday, which was the most polite way the paying citizens could have responded.
• Jake Guentzel, their best trade chip and one of their best players, left with an injury, and I didn’t love his body language in the aftermath.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I mean that's my point. Neither of White or Harkins is some big time replacement for Acciari or "defensive ability".

Yeah, it’s just funny how the hate for Puustinen is that he couldn’t produce in the bottom 6, where no one is producing because of the usage they’re put into. Yet the 2nd line which is a sore point right now, where Puustinen thrived and where the team needs help, is out of question for Puustinen because he couldn’t play himself out of the bottom 6 by producing consistently - Something virtually no player has done, ever, in the last few years.

That bloke has had a hate hard on for Puustinen well before the call up. If you remember, when you and I stated he should be called up, he was whinging about for why call up a small winger that isn’t good blah blah blah. That bloke genuinely got excited when he failed to produce in the bottom 6 (like literally everyone else has).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Here’s what we know right now (brace yourselves):

• The Penguins haven’t scored more than three goals in a game since Jan. 8.
• Since the NHL All-Star Break, the Penguins have eight goals in four games.
• The Erik Karlsson experience has been a flop.
• Ryan Graves has been something of a disaster.
• The bottom six can’t score … at all.
• Evgeni Malkin reverted to his old trick of getting fired up by challenging himself in a meeting with reporters and was then invisible again.
• Sidney Crosby has been oddly quiet since the NHL All-Star Game.
• Things are so bad for Rickard Rakell that his monthly goal was correctly wiped out by a high stick on the puck ruling.
• Bryan Rust just isn’t himself, and I suspect he isn’t healthy.
• Reilly Smith isn’t the guy who was an impactful player in Vegas.
• The power play was booed out of the building Wednesday, which was the most polite way the paying citizens could have responded.
• Jake Guentzel, their best trade chip and one of their best players, left with an injury, and I didn’t love his body language in the aftermath.

This team has largely checked out for a while, most teams in the same position would fire the coach as a big trade won’t spark them, if a big trade like Karlsson hasn’t sparked them, nothing will. You’d need to land something like a Forsberg for Erat sort of trade, a trade that was a unicorn of a trade to begin with. Dubas seems to not want to fire Sullivan at all as the biggest change he can make to spark this team, the next steps is destroying this team via trades by spending assets to get rid of bad contracts.

Edit: I should add, I don’t dislike Karlsson, Graves, or Smith etc. I think their usage on this team is the biggest problem, you can’t expect anyone to succeed in the usage and system that doesn’t help anyone else. There’s far too many players playing poorly to call out anyone as a single problem here and there.

When 5 out of 6 defense stink and 10 out of 12 forwards haven’t been consistent, the problem isn’t the players as much as it is the coach. I think Malkin is just searching for something I feel terrible hearing him say the things he has because he’s trying, I think he’s looked exhausted trying to figure things out. There was that one play where they showed Graves skating in and he’s going to play it safe, he’s one of those blokes that plays that way, but Geno was trailing and didn’t yell for the puck, that’s a player that’s lost his confidence. Sullivan has literally destroyed the confidence of hall of fame players.

That’s just ridiculous.