Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "But if you don't get the President of the Pittsburgh Penguins on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"

[Gurglesons]

Nylander is great and all.....

But his next contract is going to end up an all-timer oof. My .02 cents. The most over-hyped Leaf since....well hell idk. Size and skates on a team full of talent. He'll get grossly overpaid (lookout with revenues possibly falling during economic turmoil) and find himself on Nylander (2M) retained for X threads within 1.5 seasons.

Want zero part of that. We should have targeted a finisher like Tarasenko on that cheap ass deal/prove it deal. This team doesn't need a 7 or 8 year commitment from anyone really. Look to parlay Smith on his hot streak...Rakell if he isn't gonna play with Sid again (swapping for Rust) - or Guentzel into an actual prime Kunitz type or up and coming C. There's really no other option.

I still think JT Miller was the option but that's not possible at this point. Not sure who the next target should be. But out of the names mentioned above only Guentzel really moves the needle on a trade. Maybe it IS time. Sucks because we all like him - but that next deal is going to be maximum pain for only minor gain.

Nylander is very good.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

No-brainer has a different meaning for this organization.

See: Sullivan, Mike. Jarry, Tristan.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Nylander is very good.

Yea I think there are 3 tiers of "very good"

Franchise cornerstones like McDavid, Matthews , Ovi, Sid, etc

Then you have your elite players like Gadreau, Nylander

Then there's another tier of very fine players like Jake, Tarasenko, Stamkos

You can pay big dollar to 1st tier and not the 3rd.

The issue are the guys between that. Are they going to eventually be a franchise guy or do they sink to that 3rd level? To the Parise/Suter examples they definitely didn't turn into franchise guys

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yea I think there are 3 tiers of "very good"

Franchise cornerstones like McDavid, Matthews , Ovi, Sid, etc

Then you have your elite players like Gadreau, Nylander

Then there's another tier of very fine players like Jake, Tarasenko, Stamkos

You can pay big dollar to 1st tier and not the 3rd.

The issue are the guys between that. Are they going to eventually be a franchise guy or do they sink to that 3rd level? To the Parise/Suter examples they definitely didn't turn into franchise guys

The Stammer disrespect. I'd move him up to tier 2.

 

[66-30-33]

Zadorov on the market? I’d love to have him here.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Zadorov on the market? I’d love to have him here.

This is where the Carter contract kills you. Zadorov has a $3.75 million cap hit. If you could clear Carter's $3.125 million cap hit, you'd be in prime position to add someone like Zadorov.

You could trade POJ and run Graves, Pettersson and Zadorov between 18-22 minutes a night apiece down the left side while giving Letang and Karlsson high minutes on the right side and then your third pairing right defensemen getting 12-15 minutes.

 

[molon labe]

Nylander is very good.

He's not 10 or 11M good with a cap below 90M. Even then... he's been fourth fiddle and I'd like to see what he does when all the focus is on him. I could see Chicago overpaying early since their window won't start for a few years anyway. For us, it would be more detrimental.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think Zadorov makes a lot of sense for this team, I don't think they need to invest that much in their 3rd pair. I'd rather have a 3rd pair that can be safe and boring for 15 minutes a night and spend as little money as possible to get that.

I wouldn't want to spend more than $3 million total on my bottom pair or $2 million for any player. Same thing with the 4th line, I'm good with Acciari at $2 million but they absolutely should not have any other $2 million guys on their 4th line.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

If we keep struggling is there anything between Edmonton that can be done? I'm just bored, I actually don't even know what they have on that crummy team

 

[canadianguy77]

Agree with you both about the destination— however FSG is paying Dubas good money to solve those type of problems. Not saying he can though.

I will say that the Pens don’t have it as bad as Canadian teams or Buffalo, etc.

The other issue is that guys worth building your team around usually don’t hit the market - because someone else is building around them. But Vegas did it.

That’s why we have to hope for the Canadian teams to keep failing. The players get sick of losing, and the constant drubbing they take from the media gets to be too much for some of them. Of course you also have to hope that some of the other teams are cap-strapped, but you should be able to snag an elite talent every now and then, even if you’re Pittsburgh.

 

[Zirakzigil]

If we keep struggling is there anything between Edmonton that can be done? I'm just bored, I actually don't even know what they have on that crummy team

Drai for Jake and POJ

 

[Fordy]

That’s why we have to hope for the Canadian teams to keep failing. The players get sick of losing, and the constant drubbing they take from the media gets to be too much for some of them. Of course you also have to hope that some of the other teams are cap-strapped, but you should be able to snag an elite talent every now and then, even if you’re Pittsburgh.

the US-Canada dynamics have never been more real than the last few years

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Drai for Jake and POJ

Or just wait for him to walk and FSG throws money at him after next year. Or throw everything you can at McDavid the year after.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Or just wait for him to walk and FSG throws money at him after next year. Or throw everything you can at McDavid the year after.

If anything it will be throwing money at Nylander this off season.

 

[orby]

Drai for Jake and POJ

I think Holland would actually be drawn and quartered in downtown Edmonton.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

prime Kunitz type

This is the type of player we need to land between now and the TDL, I believe.

 

[Andy99]

I’m putting this here…I’m glad Jesse is beating this drum…the system generates too many good chances…let’s see what happens tonight against the Ducks lol

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I’m putting this here…I’m glad Jesse is beating this drum…the system generates too many good chances…let’s see what happens tonight against the Ducks lol

It's basic hockey: maintaining gaps between your players. Doesn't matter what structure you use, if the players aren't maintaining gap integrity your system is toast

Here is where coaching matters: will my team be able to execute whatever structure I've implemented? If they can't then you better change the setup.

This is where Sully fails. Yes the players aren't executing, but they don't have the legs to do it. It all comes back down to the coach. Woodcroft isn't blameless here...he better find another structure where his players can succeed.

 

[Andy99]

It's basic hockey: maintaining gaps between your players. Doesn't matter what structure you use, if the players aren't maintaining gap integrity your system is toast

Here is where coaching matters: will my team be able to execute whatever structure I've implemented? If they can't then you better change the setup.

This is where Sully fails. Yes the players aren't executing, but they don't have the legs to do it. It all comes back down to the coach. Woodcroft isn't blameless here...he better find another structure where his players can succeed.

Yes, pretty much…I mean I think (well pretty much know) that Sid and G like and want to play “fun hockey,” which roughly translated means aggressive offensive hockey…I don’t believe (well know, just look at the results!) they can play that way all 60 min of games against most opponents (except like the Sharks lol)…the only way we put up those goals is because we got through the NZ with ease and there was no opposition to us getting in front of their net…not going to happen against most teams…it’s up to the coach to tell them reality and if they want to make the playoffs, they’re going to have to play and implement a much tighter D system when they are leading in particular…they did it against the Avs and they can and should adjust within games and adjust differently for each opponent…their strength should be experience and smarts…i fault the coach heavily because he doesn’t do this enough

 

[SEALBound]

When the system is working and everyone had their shot of Russian gas before the game, it looks great. They push the pace and dominate the forecheck and carry the play in the game. Unfortunately, if they tire out or don't get the control they need, the system breaks down quickly. There's no safety net or fall back. It's an all-or-nothing system where you become dependent on individuals to make good individual plays. It's not systemic play at a point. Now, you have guys like Letang, Pettersson, and Karlsson out there making those plays so it's not THAT big a stretch to suggest that they can do it but I think as we are seeing, over the long haul, the percentages are not in our favor.

Sullivan is an issue for sure but part of me is starting to wonder what role the core plays in this as well. I can't get it out of my head that Sid is a creature of habit with his PB&J sammiches and he might want to continue using that system due to unwillingness to change. Is Sid a guy that wants to trap? Or play a more conservative style that is counter-punch in nature? I have doubts. So maybe the come to Jesus needs to be with Sid, Geno, Letang, etc?

 

[Andy99]

When the system is working and everyone had their shot of Russian gas before the game, it looks great. They push the pace and dominate the forecheck and carry the play in the game. Unfortunately, if they tire out or don't get the control they need, the system breaks down quickly. There's no safety net or fall back. It's an all-or-nothing system where you become dependent on individuals to make good individual plays. It's not systemic play at a point. Now, you have guys like Letang, Pettersson, and Karlsson out there making those plays so it's not THAT big a stretch to suggest that they can do it but I think as we are seeing, over the long haul, the percentages are not in our favor.

Sullivan is an issue for sure but part of me is starting to wonder what role the core plays in this as well. I can't get it out of my head that Sid is a creature of habit with his PB&J sammiches and he might want to continue using that system due to unwillingness to change. Is Sid a guy that wants to trap? Or play a more conservative style that is counter-punch in nature? I have doubts. So maybe the come to Jesus needs to be with Sid, Geno, Letang, etc?

Yeah, the come to Jesus is on the coach though…do you want to win and get back in the playoff picture or not? That’s his sole job really, it’s not to kowtow to the core players…sure, do that when it’s not detrimental to winning but at their ages, how they want to play is detrimental to winning most hockey games…

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah, the come to Jesus is on the coach though…do you want to win and get back in the playoff picture or not? That’s his sole job really, it’s not to kowtow to the core players…sure, do that when it’s not detrimental to winning but at their ages, how they want to play is detrimental to winning most hockey games…

Oh yeah, I don't disagree with that one bit. To be fair to Sid too, I guess, he change with Therrien, he changed with Bylsma, he changed a bit with Johnson, and he's changed a bit with Sullivan. So maybe I'm not being fair enough to the guy but it still makes me wonder how much, if any, pull of the strings he has. For as much as I love this organization (and I always will), it's not like this would be the first time we've had a generational superstar talent here. The org was known as quite the country club when Lemieux was playing. For a personality like Sid, it may be more passively dictator-ish.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If anything it will be throwing money at Nylander this off season.

We already have Nylander at home.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Drai for Jake and POJ

I would seriously give them Sid for cool stuff. It would do Sid a world of wonders, it would probably propel Edmonton to serious contender, and if Dubas received really cool stuff, the Pens maybe wouldn't have to go complete burn it to the ground rebuild.

hi

 

[molon labe]

If we keep struggling is there anything between Edmonton that can be done? I'm just bored, I actually don't even know what they have on that crummy team

Something in Edmonton is gonna get done. Probably fire the coach as I don't know what trades are even out there.