Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "But if you don't get the President of the Pittsburgh Penguins on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"

[Gurglesons]

If Pettersson leaves he's going to like NYR, not PIT.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Same. Forget Guentzel, Nylander would be our best forward (because Sid/Malkin are old).

He is a true superstar. Every time I’ve watched Toronto he’s the guy that jumps off the screen for me- not saying he’s superior to Matthews or Marner but I’d be really curious what he’d look like as a go to guy here or on another team.

It'll never happen, but you could afford Nylander if you shipped out Rust and Rakell's contracts. Possibly still employ Jake with a raise (7x7 as someone mentioned)

Jake-Sid-Nylander
Smith-Geno-X

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Petts and Nylander go a real long way toward retooling on the fly. You're probably gonna have to throw an obscene offer sheet to get Petts, and the both likely end up costing you north of $25 million AAV in total. But if this team's trying to avoid an ugly and lengthy rebuild, that's one of the better, sorta realistic paths to take.

Im pro-tanking but would have absolutely zero issue if this team tried to do the “we don’t rebuild” thing if it was done via signing and acquiring legit superstars.

The problem is when you do it around players who aren’t in that stratosphere (like the Flames).

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Im pro-tanking but would have absolutely zero issue if this team tried to do the “we don’t rebuild” thing if it was done via signing and acquiring legit superstars.

The problem is when you do it around players who aren’t in that stratosphere (like the Flames).

I think, like pixies alluded to, the real problem is that who the f*** is gonna wanna come to Pittsburgh of all the choices? I know Gaudreau picked Columbus outta nowhere (f***ing idiot lol) but if given the choice, I gotta think a legit elite talent is picking a better living situation 99 times out of 100.

They can have all the money in the world to throw at guys, but they'll be a bottom feeder by then, and Pittsburgh isn't NYC, Miami, LA, Chicago, Vegas, etc.

 

[LOGiK]

Im pro-tanking but would have absolutely zero issue if this team tried to do the “we don’t rebuild” thing if it was done via signing and acquiring legit superstars.

The problem is when you do it around players who aren’t in that stratosphere (like the Flames).

How can you just sign superstars though?
Well... with no sid and geno and every other fat cat high % of team cap .... it is possible...
Funds are one thing...
Why would they come to pitt ? Is another...
Which team the trade is with, what exactly would they want for him... is another.

But another thing in sports.... sometimes money trumps location.... but sometimes playing for a specific org is meaningful to them... I donno....
Pitt is kinda, kinda.... meh....

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not that Jarry has been all that great to start the year, but good thing the Penguins didn't try to replace Jarry with Andersen in the off-season:



The contract Dubas gave Jarry sucks but it really seems like all of the UFA goalie options were just horrendous. None of Jarry, Andersen, Korpisalo or Raanta have had good starts to this season.

The only starter that has actually been successful this year and was mentioned as a potential option to replace Jarry is Cam Talbot, but he was rarely mentioned as a viable replacement for Jarry.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Quick, send 'em Jarry.

Our idiot GM gave Jarry a NTC for some stupid ass reason. So while you are joking, it's not even on the menu of possibilites

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Our idiot GM gave Jarry a NTC for some stupid ass reason. So while you are joking, it's not even on the menu of possibilites

Yeah. It kicks ass how pretty much every single guy signing for multiple years automatically gets some kinda clause nowadays.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

What's your intent? You want the same kind of floaty player next to Sid or you want some jam?
I mean Hertl to me is Jake-lite and he'll probably be cheaper

Trading a guy after he has had a mediocre 10 game start to the season is the kind of shortsighted decision Jim Rutherford would make. Look at how well the Hagelin trade ended up working for the Penguins.

I want to be clear. To me this may be an off season move or deadline move.

Where Dubas decides we need to change it up so no more Guentzel because it could be a 7x8.5 type contact.
So he messages the Sharks and offers to take on more cap space and we get a top 6 C that can play LW for us. At 6x8.1375 or whatever number he Is.

Sheds a year and gives us a top 6 C option.

Sharks so it because that's 48.5 million in savings for them.

 

[SEALBound]

I would kill to get Nylander here. He's a significantly better player than Jake

No question there but the problem is, Nylander will want $10mil. Say Jake wants $7mil, is having Nylander worth the extra $3mil? I have doubts.

My worry becomes creating a roster that gets us closer to the Toronto model than the 2016 Pens model. If you back the truck up to Nylander, your money to allocate to depth goes way down. Unless, like I said, you get a solid roster player, prospect, and recouped pick in a Jake trade to help fill out the roster.

Rakell-Crosby-Nylander ($10mil)
Smith-Malkin-Rust
Marchment-Yager-Demidov
Nieto-Eller-Accari

Petterson-Karlsson
Graves-Letang
Shea-Smith-Pickering

TJ-JB

It's close but it works. Assumes: Marchment+Bourque+2025 1st for Jake @50% this year; we keep 2024 pick and it ends up Top 5; we draft Demidov.

You get some breathing room if you can send Eller or Accari out and replace them with Bourque or Zohorna.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think, like pixies alluded to, the real problem is that who the f*** is gonna wanna come to Pittsburgh of all the choices? I know Gaudreau picked Columbus outta nowhere (f***ing idiot lol) but if given the choice, I gotta think a legit elite talent is picking a better living situation 99 times out of 100.

They can have all the money in the world to throw at guys, but they'll be a bottom feeder by then, and Pittsburgh isn't NYC, Miami, LA, Chicago, Vegas, etc.

How can you just sign superstars though?
Well... with no sid and geno and every other fat cat high % of team cap .... it is possible...
Funds are one thing...
Why would they come to pitt ? Is another...
Which team the trade is with, what exactly would they want for him... is another.

But another thing in sports.... sometimes money trumps location.... but sometimes playing for a specific org is meaningful to them... I donno....
Pitt is kinda, kinda.... meh....

Agree with you both about the destination— however FSG is paying Dubas good money to solve those type of problems. Not saying he can though.

I will say that the Pens don’t have it as bad as Canadian teams or Buffalo, etc.

The other issue is that guys worth building your team around usually don’t hit the market - because someone else is building around them. But Vegas did it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Im pro-tanking but would have absolutely zero issue if this team tried to do the “we don’t rebuild” thing if it was done via signing and acquiring legit superstars.

The problem is when you do it around players who aren’t in that stratosphere (like the Flames).

I think the Wild should also be a cautionary tale for why the "we don't rebuild" strategy isn't all that effective. It will definitely keep you as a consistent playoff team but you're not accomplishing anything if you can't develop your own home-grown superstars.

They pulled off basically the best you could get in UFA when they signed Parise and Suter and what did it accomplish them? Pretty much nothing and now they have their bloated dead cap hits to deal with.

 

[LOGiK]

Yeah. It kicks ass how pretty much every single guy signing for multiple years automatically gets some kinda clause nowadays.

I'd demand one in sports... at least give me a 6 or at worst 3 places I would not go (or 3 or 6 places I would like to go....

Hell, I mean... even the (united states) military let's you pick where you want to live for 2-5 years.

I mean, as an average andy at least give me some say... I'm a human being not a piece of meat to trade around at will (the older you get and have roots/family etc). Superstar, yeah, full nmc... but jeez... at least let a guy turn down 3 or so places... however they work nmc's....

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think the Wild should also be a cautionary tale for why the "we don't rebuild" strategy isn't all that effective. It will definitely keep you as a consistent playoff team but you're not accomplishing anything if you can't develop your own home-grown superstars.

They pulled off basically the best you could get in UFA when they signed Parise and Suter and what did it accomplish them? Pretty much nothing and now they have their bloated dead cap hits to deal with.

You can probably survive with just 1 "bloated" contract/dead hit in your rebuild strategy. Having 2 really handcuffs you

Guerin should have picked 1 of those to rip the band aid off and not both of them.

 

[LOGiK]

Agree with you both about the destination— however FSG is paying Dubas good money to solve those type of problems. Not saying he can though.

I will say that the Pens don’t have it as bad as Canadian teams or Buffalo, etc.

The other issue is that guys worth building your team around usually don’t hit the market - because someone else is building around them. But Vegas did it.

Not a comment about rebuilding, but about vegas... yeah... they did it, but also expansion drafts are MUCH more expansion team friendly today.... 20 years ago if vegas came into the league they'd be awful for a decade minimum.

 

[SEALBound]

I think the Wild should also be a cautionary tale for why the "we don't rebuild" strategy isn't all that effective. It will definitely keep you as a consistent playoff team but you're not accomplishing anything if you can't develop your own home-grown superstars.

They pulled off basically the best you could get in UFA when they signed Parise and Suter and what did it accomplish them? Pretty much nothing and now they have their bloated dead cap hits to deal with.

Agree. It's been quite a while since a Stanley Cup winner didn't have a 1OV or 2OV. I mean, St Louis in 2019 but Piets with #4 and Schenn was #5 but I it demonstrates they are the exception and not the rule.

You need the core of super high-end talent. And you have to get lucky to be bad at the right now because the 1-5ov from year to year are hardly guarantees of anything. Sometimes you pick 1st and then 2nd over and you get Sid and Geno or you get Lafrienere and Kakko. Sometimes you pick #1 3 times in a row and get Hall, RNH, and Yakpov.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Agree with you both about the destination— however FSG is paying Dubas good money to solve those type of problems. Not saying he can though.

I will say that the Pens don’t have it as bad as Canadian teams or Buffalo, etc.

Pittsburgh's a fine little city, I've been there for Penguins games and I prefer it to Philly or NYC personally. But if you're making millions in bunches, you're home situation's gonna be kick ass anywhere you go--even Winnipeg. It's the "stuff to do" that tips the balance, not necessarily the living conditions.

I don't think it's a puzzle Dubas can solve tbh. Also, I don't really believe teams can retool on the fly and be legitimate contenders for any length of time, I think teams have to trudge through a shitty rebuild from the ground up, and hope like hell they get exceptionally lucky in drafting and development.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not a comment about rebuilding, but about vegas... yeah... they did it, but also expansion drafts are MUCH more expansion team friendly today.... 20 years ago if vegas came into the league they'd be awful for a decade minimum.

Vegas largely built their team through trades and UFA signings though. Any team could do that.

If anything Vegas is a perfect example of how to build a team through UFA and trades and it’s not getting attached to franchise favorites like Fleury, etc.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think the Wild should also be a cautionary tale for why the "we don't rebuild" strategy isn't all that effective. It will definitely keep you as a consistent playoff team but you're not accomplishing anything if you can't develop your own home-grown superstars.

They pulled off basically the best you could get in UFA when they signed Parise and Suter and what did it accomplish them? Pretty much nothing and now they have their bloated dead cap hits to deal with.

True but it doesn’t have to be UFA. Wild didn’t really add any other studs IIRC. I’m thinking about the Vegas model for their big 3 stars. Trades and FA.

FYI- agree with you overall. I still think a brutal tank is the best way to build and no org can win without drafting and developing talent.

However I completely get why an owner would be hesitant to tank. There’s no guarantee you don’t just become bad forever.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Vegas largely built their team through trades and UFA signings though. Any team could do that.

If anything Vegas is a perfect example of how to build a team through UFA and trades and it’s not getting attached to franchise favorites like Fleury, etc.

Shit, if they feel like the fit isn't right or they're stagnant, they'll send a coach packing too. People give Vegas shit for being cutthroat as hell, but that's an organization that wanted to win. They don't seem content to just sit on a situation and hope it changes for the better.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I don't think it's a puzzle Dubas can solve tbh. Also, I don't really believe teams can retool on the fly and be legitimate contenders for any length of time, I think teams have to trudge through a shitty rebuild from the ground up, and hope like hell they get exceptionally lucky in drafting and development.

Boston has done it well IMO but like you said - they have the luck component with their drafting. Getting Pasta, McAvoy, (and possibly Poitras) at the slots they did was ludicrous.

 

[Gurglesons]

True but it doesn’t have to be UFA. Wild didn’t really add any other studs IIRC. I’m thinking about the Vegas model for their big 3 stars. Trades and FA.

FYI- agree with you overall. I still think a brutal tank is the best way to build and no org can win without drafting and developing talent.

However I completely get why an owner would be hesitant to tank. There’s no guarantee you don’t just become bad forever.

Also Suter and Parise were never foundational players.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Also Suter and Parise were never foundational players.

I’ll give a pass on Parise up to that point. I can see why you’d think he can be part of a SC contender core when he hit UFA. Definitely ended up not being that guy though.

But yeah Suter was always kinda overrated because he played big minutes decently. kinda like a better Seth Jones

 

[molon labe]

Nylander is great and all.....

But his next contract is going to end up an all-timer oof. My .02 cents. The most over-hyped Leaf since....well hell idk. Size and skates on a team full of talent. He'll get grossly overpaid (lookout with revenues possibly falling during economic turmoil) and find himself on Nylander (2M) retained for X threads within 1.5 seasons.

Want zero part of that. We should have targeted a finisher like Tarasenko on that cheap ass deal/prove it deal. This team doesn't need a 7 or 8 year commitment from anyone really. Look to parlay Smith on his hot streak...Rakell if he isn't gonna play with Sid again (swapping for Rust) - or Guentzel into an actual prime Kunitz type or up and coming C. There's really no other option.

I still think JT Miller was the option but that's not possible at this point. Not sure who the next target should be. But out of the names mentioned above only Guentzel really moves the needle on a trade. Maybe it IS time. Sucks because we all like him - but that next deal is going to be maximum pain for only minor gain.

 

[molon labe]

Dubas should be in touch with Bill Zito... Impressive Florida has the team they do with practically no trade restrictions on the roster.

Plenty to choose from and they seem like a great trading partner.

Not sure if they'd be willing to work a deal around any of Knight (currently buried), Bennett, Cousins, etc. A little patchwork for our goalie situation or some added grit/depth to our roster. Though, again, not sure if they're willing. Bennett seems like a no brainer on this team.