Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "But if you don't get the President of the Pittsburgh Penguins on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"

[McGroarty2]

MacEwen also on waivers.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Gummy bears and domestic piss beer, baybeeeeeee

You can just hear The Mayor rationalizing it in real time, too.

"Well we really like our super special Heinen/Malkin/Kapanen line so we can't break THAT magic up!"

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The issue here is trying to act like all of these problems are of the same magnitude. The top line can suck in a playoff series but be a much smaller reason for the team losing than the atrocious goaltending performance. No series will ever have the team being absolutely perfect, but that doesn't mean the issues on the team are equal in value.

Both of those series losses were primarily due to goaltending, especially the Islanders series.

If the top line doesn't absolutely suck shit, they have a chance to overcome the goaltending woes. I'm not gonna sit here and measure out in percentages who or what is to blame. I'm saying the laziness and convenience of pinning it on one guy--not saying that's what you're doing--is exactly why this team always has excuses to fall back on and they've been getting steadily more shitty since 2018.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Jarry was hung out to dry for the majority of that series by the same shit that has been happening with our defensive zone coverage for years.

Jarry had his moments, but go watch the video Empo posted. Jarry is getting beat because the Islanders were basically given a red carpet to shoot within 5-10 feet in front of the net untested.

I'm so tired of the Jarry narrative. He sucks ass. Vegas just won a cup with Adin Hill.

Maybe if Mike Sullivan didn't love Jeff Carter and Chad Ruhwedel we would actually have internal options. Jared McCann isn't here because of Mike Sullivan. Same with Evan Rodrigues. One of the Penguins beat guys said Rodrigues was not re-signed because of his atrocious penalty in the 2022 playoffs.

Mike Sullivan hockey has been predicated on getting "low event" players that literally can not find NHL jobs after playing here to play 60+ games a year in bottom six roles because they "stick to it" and are "conscientious" for years now.

Bro are you seeing Sully in your sleep? It’s ok if you are

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Bro are you seeing Sully in your sleep? It’s ok if you are

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the top line doesn't absolutely suck shit, they have a chance to overcome the goaltending woes. I'm not gonna sit here and measure out in percentages who or what is to blame. I'm saying the laziness and convenience of pinning it on one guy--not saying that's what you're doing--is exactly why this team always has excuses to fall back on and they've been getting steadily more shitty since 2018.

But again, these aren't equal in size issues. That series wasn't just "goaltending woes", the team should have given up more than a goal a game less. Yes, the top line stunk. Yes, the powerplay stunk. Yes, Sullivan has just been bad for years. But none of those come even close to the magnitude of suckage that Jarry had in that series.

That's not a lazy excuse, that's just a fact. The Penguins objectively lost that series primarily due to Jarry being terrible. The only reason this is even being debated on here is because people want to bitch about Sullivan, so they want to defend Jarry to complain about Sullivan.

 

[pistolpete11]

I can't believe this is even a debate still

Jarry didn't 'struggle'. He melted down.

For all the other issues, of which there were plenty, Jarry was the single biggest issue in that series. By far. They easily advance with an average goalie performance.

 

[Empoleon8771]

And anyways, the original point of me bringing up that 2021 team was to point out how good production they got out of their bottom-6 last year, to comment on how awful their bottom-6 is today. That team had depth production that year that was easily 3x what they got last year and likely will get this year. The comment about the playoffs was that the team was getting a lot of depth production and Jarry being dogshit wasted that strong depth production.

 

[Darren McCord]

The 7 extra goals Jarry gave up at in a 6 game series is objectively a much larger impact than either the 1st line or the powerplay. That's a fact. The powerplay isn't scoring 7 more goals in a 6 game series. The top line isn't scoring 7 more goals in a 6 game series.

I can't even believe I'm arguing this here. Do you have just this much of an axe to grind with Sullivan that you refuse to acknowledge reality?

If Jarry doesn't make 37 games in game two they probably lose the series faster.

You're right though it's something different every year but never sullivans fault. he makes all the right adjustments when the team is struggling.

Sullivan is flat out the biggest problem with this team over the last 7 years. I dont even know how that is an argument at this point.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Jarry doesn't make 37 games in game two they probably lose the series faster.

You're right though it's something different every year but never sullivans fault. he makes all the right adjustments when the team is struggling.

Sullivan is flat out the biggest problem with this team over the last 7 years. I dont even know how that is an argument at this point.

The only reason this is even being debated on here is because people want to bitch about Sullivan, so they want to defend Jarry to complain about Sullivan.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Darren McCord]

If the top line doesn't absolutely suck shit, they have a chance to overcome the goaltending woes. I'm not gonna sit here and measure out in percentages who or what is to blame. I'm saying the laziness and convenience of pinning it on one guy--not saying that's what you're doing--is exactly why this team always has excuses to fall back on and they've been getting steadily more shitty since 2018.

This 100%

 

[The Old Master]

No it isn't. The systematic issues the team has are coaching problems. O'Connor not being able to process the game at NHL speeds is not a Sullivan issue, it's an O'Connor issue.

if that was the case, the coach would simplify the system till the bonehead players could grasp it. it seems that it still goes back to the COACH..

 

[Empoleon8771]

I can't believe this is even a debate still

Jarry didn't 'struggle'. He melted down.

For all the other issues, of which there were plenty, Jarry was the single biggest issue in that series. By far. They easily advance with an average goalie performance.

This is really just people wanting to grind their axes with Sullivan, there is no legitimate way that the people defending Jarry in here can seriously believe what they're posting.

People on here have this black and white idea where if something is one fault, it can't be the fault of another. Both "Jarry was atrocious in this series and cost the team" and "Sullivan has been an issue for years with his stubbornness" can be true. It's not either/or.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

if that was the case, the coach would simplify the system till the bonehead players could grasp it. it seems that it still goes back to the COACH..

#1 responsibility of a coach/manager = putting people in position to succeed.

But it's still not Sully's fault according to all his water carriers

 

[Darren McCord]

Thank you for proving my point.

Maybe because that bottom 6 you like so much is mostly gone because of sullivan.

 

[Empoleon8771]

if that was the case, the coach would simplify the system till the bonehead players could grasp it. it seems that it still goes back to the COACH..

Being able to process the game at a NHL speed has nothing to do with the system the coach is running. It entirely has to do with O'Connor.

Sullivan's system definitely has issues, and I think his offensive structure is set up extremely badly for the low skilled guys at the bottom of the lineup. But O'Connor being bad due to not being able to process the game at the NHL speeds is 100% an O'Connor issue.

Maybe because that bottom 6 you like so much is mostly gone because of sullivan.

Yes, it's Mike Sullivan's fault that Ron Hextall gave away McCann and lost Tanev in the expansion draft and decided to pay Carter and let ERod walk. Damn Mike Sullivan, doing the GM jobs when he's not the GM!

#1 responsibility of a coach/manager = putting people in position to succeed.

But it's still not Sully's fault according to all his water carriers

O'Connor's issues have nothing to do with "not being put in a position to succeed". He's just not very good.

What would be putting O'Connor in a position to succeed that O'Connor's play has warranted?

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Plot twist: Dubas waived Harkins in order to claim Simek.

 

[Darren McCord]

Being able to process the game at a NHL speed has nothing to do with the system the coach is running. It entirely has to do with O'Connor.

Sullivan's system definitely has issues, and I think his offensive structure is set up extremely badly for the low skilled guys at the bottom of the lineup. But O'Connor being bad due to not being able to process the game at the NHL speeds is 100% an O'Connor issue.



Yes, it's Mike Sullivan's fault that Ron Hextall gave away McCann and lost Tanev in the expansion draft and decided to pay Carter and let ERod walk. Damn Mike Sullivan, doing the GM jobs when he's not the GM!

The bottom 6 this year is literally sullivans wet dream. You are crazy to think he has no input.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The bottom 6 this year is literally sullivans wet dream. You are crazy to think he has no input.

Now you're just moving the goalposts. You claimed that the bottom-6 from the 2021 season is no longer here because of Sullivan, which is just a dumb statement.

The bottom-6 that Sullivan has right now is what he wants, because it's 2023 and not 2021 anymore. The failures of the bottom-6 now are on Sullivan's shoulders. Which is what I've been saying since last night about how badly Sullivan's offensive system fits the kind of bottom-6 players he wants.

Crazy, having nuance in a discussion! I can both criticize Sullivan while also acknowledging that there are other problems too!

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You can look through the GDTs. I was torching Jarry as much or more than anybody for shitting his pants in Dan Cloutier or MAF fashion. But hockey's a chaotic sport and if the team's best players (and depth) don't completely skip that Isles series, they have a genuine shot at overcoming Jarry's shitstorm in the crease. Just like if the PK didn't allow like 6 goals or whatever in the final three games of the Rangers series, or Sullivan put Jake-Rust with Geno, or losers like Kap, Zucker and Blueger were able to chip in. Etc etc

Anyway, I'm not gonna keep spiraling into debate perversion over some dumb shit that happened nearly three years ago.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It is honestly hilarious to me that some people here hate Sullivan so much that they will interpret any sort of criticism of another part of the team as a defense of Sullivan and will twist any sort of problem of the team as being due to Sullivan.

 

[SEALBound]

Harkins gone. Looking at stats...him and DOC have a lot of similarities. Eye test confirms that too. Might be time to waive 1-2 more guys and get in different guys.

Zohorna-Eller-Hinostranza
Nieto-White-Accari
HS: Carter

Rudwedel waived. Harkins claimed.

 

[Turin]

Was hoping Harkins would work out but he’s been ass since the season started to matter so whatever. Winnipeg claims him back I’m sure

 

[Victor Z]

MacEwen also on waivers.

He sucks. But he is a willing combatant and would still be better than at least half of our bottom 6, who bring nothing at all.

But that contract.... woof. I can't imagine any decent team claiming him.

 

[Darren McCord]

Now you're just moving the goalposts. You claimed that the bottom-6 from the 2021 season is no longer here because of Sullivan, which is just a dumb statement.

The bottom-6 that Sullivan has right now is what he wants, because it's 2023 and not 2021 anymore. The failures of the bottom-6 now are on Sullivan's shoulders. Which is what I've been saying since last night about how badly Sullivan's offensive system fits the kind of bottom-6 players he wants.

Crazy, having nuance in a discussion! I can both criticize Sullivan while also acknowledging that there are other problems too!

2021 offeseason

Reese was signed for Sullivan over Freddy at 650k more.
TB was a hundred percent protected over McCann for Sullivan.
Ditto for Carter.

Hextall was a moron but he definitely didn't make those moves alone. Sullivan doesn't want skill in the bottom six.

How many coaches make it the the third GM without having a ton of power of the moves?