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Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "But if you don't get the President of the Pittsburgh Penguins on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"

How soon before Letang is back on PP1:

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Big Friggin Dummy said:
I'm not gonna wax poetic about guys like ERod or McCann but they'd be a lot more fun to watch on any given night than Eller (who is the best of the bunch, sad as it is to say) or any of the other bottom-6 guys this team has.
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I guess the point isn't that I seriously think ERod, Gaudreau or whoever was gonna really blow up and change this team's fortunes. Only that I sure wouldn't mind those 30-40 points for 2-3M on this team's bottom six right now as opposed to... uh... whatever this is.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
And yet that team finished with 77 points in a 56 game season, which would have been a 113 point pace over a full season. The only Penguins team in the Crosby/Malkin era that had a better pace than that was the 2013 lockout team.

If you think that team sucked, I don't even know why you're watching this team.
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Because I enjoy watching the Pittsburgh Penguins?

The 2013 team was a paper tiger too. Largely because of their coach.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
And yet that team finished with 77 points in a 56 game season, which would have been a 113 point pace over a full season. The only Penguins team in the Crosby/Malkin era that had a better pace than that was the 2013 lockout team.

If you think that team sucked, I don't even know why you're watching this team.
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The team didn't suck which is disappointing. The goalie and coach did though.
 
Gurglesons said:
The fact Penguins fans still act like that first goal on the video was on Jarry is hilarious.
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Uh, I play goalie and understand the expectations out of the position. That 1st goal was a horrendous goal by Jarry.

A short side, unscreened shot that Jarry was down way too early on? That's absolutely an awful goal by Jarry.
 
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Gurglesons said:
Don't worry. Mark Friedman isn't going to become anything in Vancouver. He went unclaimed on waivers.



Obviously you forget what watching Rodrigues and McCann was like at times lol.
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No, I don't. I bitched about ERod disappearing for long stretches and McCann doing a shitty James Neal cosplay every playoffs. But every now and then they'd have games beyond what anyone in this bottom-6 is capable of, and for a team with no Cup chances, excitement during the regular season's all this fanbase has anymore. /shrug
 
BlindWillyMcHurt said:
I guess the point isn't that I seriously think ERod, Gaudreau or whoever was gonna really blow up and change this team's fortunes. Only that I sure wouldn't mind those 30-40 points for 2-3M on this team's bottom six right now as opposed to... uh... whatever this is.
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I get it. We're on the same page. I just don't wanna overextend and pretend ERod, McCann or Gaudreau would have this team humming right now or something. But I'd take that trio over any of our bottom-6 guys, for years at this point, without a second thought. :laugh:
 
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pistolpete11 said:
A lot of things contributed to that Palmieri goal.

Doesn't change the overall point that Jarry was as bad as MAF at his lowest in that series.
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Jarry was hung out to dry for the majority of that series by the same shit that has been happening with our defensive zone coverage for years.

Jarry had his moments, but go watch the video Empo posted. Jarry is getting beat because the Islanders were basically given a red carpet to shoot within 5-10 feet in front of the net untested.

I'm so tired of the Jarry narrative. He sucks ass. Vegas just won a cup with Adin Hill.

Maybe if Mike Sullivan didn't love Jeff Carter and Chad Ruhwedel we would actually have internal options. Jared McCann isn't here because of Mike Sullivan. Same with Evan Rodrigues. One of the Penguins beat guys said Rodrigues was not re-signed because of his atrocious penalty in the 2022 playoffs.

Mike Sullivan hockey has been predicated on getting "low event" players that literally can not find NHL jobs after playing here to play 60+ games a year in bottom six roles because they "stick to it" and are "conscientious" for years now.
 
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Be nice to each other. Hate something else, like Ruh or Sully, not your fellow posters.
 
pistolpete11 said:
A lot of things contributed to that Palmieri goal.

Doesn't change the overall point that Jarry was as bad as MAF at his lowest in that series.
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Yeah and anyway, the point of me bringing up that 2021 team in the first place was to comment on how good their bottom-6 was. Jarry's meltdown cost that team of making a run, but the overall point was how much better that bottom-6 was than the Penguins bottom-6.
 
pistolpete11 said:
A lot of things contributed to that Palmieri goal.

Doesn't change the overall point that Jarry was as bad as MAF at his lowest in that series.
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Jarry was awful but the team infront of him was awful as well.

3 PPG 1 SH The top line was invisible. Players were miscast on lines.

Sullivan was out coach like every other playoffs since 2018.
 
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Sidney the Kidney said:
I think the issue with DOC is he doesn't think the game at the NHL level. He's got some physical tools to be effective now and then when his natural gifts take over, but I don't think he reads the play well enough to be consistently effective.

Maybe that comes with more experience, who knows. But right now, he just looks like he's all over the place with no clear cut idea of what he should be doing or where he should be on any given shift.
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those are both coaching problems.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Yeah and anyway, the point of me bringing up that 2021 team in the first place was to comment on how good their bottom-6 was. Jarry's meltdown cost that team of making a run, but the overall point was how much better that bottom-6 was than the Penguins bottom-6.
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You cant just say it was just Jarry though. The top line was awful in the playoffs and sully ran them 35% of the game. Dont go 0 - 3 on the pp in game one and you probably win the series.
 
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The Old Master said:
those are both coaching problems.
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No it isn't. The systematic issues the team has are coaching problems. O'Connor not being able to process the game at NHL speeds is not a Sullivan issue, it's an O'Connor issue.

Darren McCord said:
You cant just say it was just Jarry though. The top line was awful in the playoffs and sully ran them 35% of the game. Dont go 0 - 3 on the pp in game one and you probably win the series.
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Jarry gave up 18 5v5 goals in that series and had an xGA of 11.28.

I don't know what kind of crazy world some of you are living in to think that the series loss was not almost entirely on Jarry. Jarry even being just passable in that series has the Penguins winning the series 4-1 or 4-2, even with the special teams issues and top line struggling.

Blaming the top line and top PP for that series is like blaming the turn signal being broken for your car not working while your engine is on fire.
 
It's never one thing. It's always, always a combination.

Even with Domingue against the Rangers. The guy was good enough to play net while they got a 3-1 series lead, then Sid got elbowed in the face and everyone forgot how to play. The PK cratered, nobody stepped up in the game-plus Sid missed.

The convenience of pointing at Jarry, or Domingue--who -did- absolutely suck--is exactly how and why this team constantly shrugs and chalks it up to misfortune, bad bounces, or whatever, never adapting, evolving or really making difficult choices in an effort to genuinely change in hopes of improving.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
It's never one thing. It's always, always a combination.

Even with Domingue against the Rangers. The guy was good enough to play net while they got a 3-1 series lead, then Sid got elbowed in the face and everyone forgot how to play. The PK cratered, nobody stepped up in the game-plus Sid missed.

The convenience of pointing at Jarry, or Domingue--who -did- absolutely suck--is exactly how and why this team constantly shrugs and chalks it up to misfortune, bad bounces, or whatever, never adapting, evolving or really making difficult choices in an effort to genuinely change in hopes of improving.
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The issue here is trying to act like all of these problems are of the same magnitude. The top line can suck in a playoff series but be a much smaller reason for the team losing than the atrocious goaltending performance. No series will ever have the team being absolutely perfect, but that doesn't mean the issues on the team are equal in value.

Both of those series losses were primarily due to goaltending, especially the Islanders series.
 
Big Friggin Dummy said:
It's never one thing. It's always, always a combination.

Even with Domingue against the Rangers. The guy was good enough to play net while they got a 3-1 series lead, then Sid got elbowed in the face and everyone forgot how to play. The PK cratered, nobody stepped up in the game-plus Sid missed.

The convenience of pointing at Jarry, or Domingue--who -did- absolutely suck--is exactly how and why this team constantly shrugs and chalks it up to misfortune, bad bounces, or whatever, never adapting, evolving or really making difficult choices in an effort to genuinely change in hopes of improving.
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Tell you what was a galaxy brain move, though... substituting Jeff Carter in for Sid Crosby after he went down with injury. Paid immediate dividends, too. Well... for the Rangers, at least.

*chef's kiss*
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
No it isn't. The systematic issues the team has are coaching problems. O'Connor not being able to process the game at NHL speeds is not a Sullivan issue, it's an O'Connor issue.



Jarry gave up 18 5v5 goals in that series and had an xGA of 11.28.

I don't know what kind of crazy world some of you are living in to think that the series loss was not almost entirely on Jarry. Jarry even being just passable in that series has the Penguins winning the series 4-1 or 4-2, even with the special teams issues and top line struggling.
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Cool

The PP even being just passable in that series has the Penguins winning the series 4-1 or 4-2, even with the Jarry and top line struggling.

Line even being just passable in that series has the Penguins winning the series 4-1 or 4-2, even with the Jarry and special teams struggling.

Point is it wasnt entirely on Jarry. Putting it all on him is just scapegoating him for the coach.

Sullivan refuses to fix the PP and break up line one. He refuses to do in game adjustments. And he also doesn't believe in matchups.
 
Darren McCord said:
Cool

The PP even being just passable in that series has the Penguins winning the series 4-1 or 4-2, even with the Jarry and top line struggling.

Line even being just passable in that series has the Penguins winning the series 4-1 or 4-2, even with the Jarry and special teams struggling.

Point is it wasnt entirely on Jarry. Putting it all on him is just scapegoating him for the coach.

Sullivan refuses to fix the PP and break up line one. He refuses to do in game adjustments. And he also doesn't believe in matchups.
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The 7 extra goals Jarry gave up at in a 6 game series is objectively a much larger impact than either the 1st line or the powerplay. That's a fact. The powerplay isn't scoring 7 more goals in a 6 game series. The top line isn't scoring 7 more goals in a 6 game series.

I can't even believe I'm arguing this here. Do you have just this much of an axe to grind with Sullivan that you refuse to acknowledge reality?
 
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