GDT: Pens 2024 Trade Deadline Thread: Jake Shake Talk here

[deakka]

So the new prospect gets buried right away in AHL... god forbid we give the kid a look on the big club seeing we have nothing to play for (except tank for a top 5 pick)

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't think Sid's some huge fan of Sullivan in the sense that he's made it known he would be unhappy if Sully was fired, or lobbied to keep him around. I think this team's too chickenshit to make the easy move *because* Sid's not said peep as they've been on this steady and steep decline.

It's not that Sid wants Sully here so much as all it'd take is Sid speaking up to have the coach replaced this afternoon. But Sid won't rock the boat because he's a robot, so here we are. Twiddling our thumbs until after the '26 Olympics because Sid wants one final shot at a gold with MacKinnon.

No player is forced to say "He's the only coach I want to play for, for the rest of my career" - Sid said that about Mike Sullivan.

Even at the height of Disco's tenure, you didn't hear shit like that. Reportedly he wasn't happy with Mike Johnston and that ended quick, the room supposedly didn't care for Bylsma the year he was fired as well. But right now? The body language of that entire roster under Sullivan is that they don't really want to be there and to ignore that is insane.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

"The Penguins got 3 prospects I've never heard of instead of 1 prospect I have heard of for Guentzel, so Kyle Dubas had a terrible deadline!"

The impression I get from this thread is that a lot of people are mad for a lot of different reasons, so I really think there was no way Dubas was going to have a winning deadline in the eyes of people here. People are mad that they traded Guentzel instead of not extending him. People are mad that Dubas didn't target a well known prospect over more less known prospects. People are mad that Dubas didn't trade players for the sake of getting rid of them. People are mad at Dubas for not getting more value for the players he did trade.

I think this board as a whole is just mad at the state of this team, and people are just jumping at anything to show their displeasure. Even had Dubas pulled off an insane return like Morrow, Blake and a 1st for Guentzel, you'd still have people mad about the deadline.

Sure, but Morrow or Blake and a 1st (let alone all three assets) is a hell of a lot better than a conditional 2nd rounder and three prospects nobody gives a shit about--despite Dubas' best "Put on a smile and sell it, Kyle!" attempt. Especially since this team has to make the tough choice of kicking the 1st to SJ this year regardless of where they finish (so long as it's outside the top-5) because next year won't be any better.

It's pretty much unanimous that these guys are all meh based on what I've read from guys way more knowledgeable and up to date on prospect stuff than any of us (including Canes fans, who seem to agree they were like 5th, 7th and worse in their prospect pool).

I dunno. I'd rather this trade than letting Jake walk or re-signing him to some stupid as f*** contract this summer. But I don't know that there's any way it can be spun as anything but a disappointing return at the moment. We'll see what happens in a handful of years, but I'd be surprised if these guys ended up as good as someone like Sundqvist turned out tbh.

 

[The Old Master]

Sully is never getting fired. If he leaves it will be his decision. "I feel like I need a new challenge or a break to focus on my family" type of stuff.

but can we just trade him?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

No player is forced to say "He's the only coach I want to play for, for the rest of my career" - Sid said that about Mike Sullivan.

Even at the height of Disco's tenure, you didn't hear shit like that. Reportedly he wasn't happy with Mike Johnston and that ended quick, the room supposedly didn't care for Bylsma the year he was fired as well. But right now? The body language of that entire roster under Sullivan is that they don't really want to be there and to ignore that is insane.

Can you provide a source? Cuz I feel like if that's true, this place would be way more up in arms over the absolute absurdity of it.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Just Chad, Ty and Jake? Aren’t we trading anyone else? Maybe at the draft.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sure, but Morrow or Blake and a 1st (let alone all three assets) is a hell of a lot better than a conditional 2nd rounder and three prospects nobody gives a shit about--despite Dubas' best "Put on a smile and sell it, Kyle!" attempt. Especially since this team has to make the tough choice of kicking the 1st to SJ this year regardless of where they finish (so long as it's outside the top-5) because next year won't be any better.

It's pretty much unanimous that these guys are all meh based on what I've read from guys way more knowledgeable and up to date on prospect stuff than any of us (including Canes fans, who seem to agree they were like 5th, 7th and worse in their prospect pool).

I dunno. I'd rather this trade than letting Jake walk or re-signing him to some stupid as f*** contract this summer. But I don't know that there's any way it can be spun as anything but a disappointing return at the moment. We'll see what happens in a handful of years, but I'd be surprised if these guys ended up as good as someone like Sundqvist turned out tbh.

Mate this screams "I didn't get what I thought they should get and now I am the big mad."

Pens didn't get 3 shitty prospects in that deal and the East is such a joke that Carolina legit can make it to the SCF, the West will be a blood bath with the shitty playoff set up. But the 2nd isn't conditional, it's a 2nd no matter what, it's conditional to being a 1st with the SCF appearance with Jake. For a rental that has made it known to the hockey world about testing the market, that's a tough sell.

The other teams dropped out with the offers.

 

[SEALBound]

So the new prospect gets buried right away in AHL... god forbid we give the kid a look on the big club seeing we have nothing to play for (except tank for a top 5 pick)

Dubas literally said he's going to WBS to get acquainted with the system and then will be called up for games.

Jesus...some of you people...

Some of you could win the billion dollar Powerball and be the guy that bitches to everyone about the taxes you had to pay for the rest of your lives.

 

[molon labe]

I don't think they were necessarily a firm "seller". Not many teams sold off everything. Plenty of teams should have been sellers but only did 1-2 trades.

Dubas is still in the "do what makes sense now, do what makes sense later to make us a more competitive next year".

That doesn't mean selling everything for bad returns.

Except this team sucks shit. Clearing cap for any return is better than sitting on these guys. But - Summer is still around the corner - which is clearly the only time the guy works before he takes vacation to catch high school hockey.

You think Empo would understand that when he is making the argument he is.

People are mad because there is no direction. There is no rhyme or reason to any of the moves Dubas has made.

You don’t trade your 1st for a 10 million dollar player, then do nothing all season while your team sucks ass, then trade your best forward for win now pieces at the deadline.

That's at least me.

It all ties together. Keeping a failed coach. Making ZERO in-season moves. None of it makes a damn bit of sense. So to rationalize it - I create a scenario where that DOES make sense:
- You did not actually want the playoffs because that gives you more leverage w/Jake and others (than already representing the entire FO)

Because clearly making in season adjustments or coaching/system adjustments is, you know, a path to different - a path to success. Not doing those things is what exactly? Stupidity?

 

[Super Duper]

Was the Jake trade great? no. But the same people complaining about how bad it was would be the same people complaining if Dubas didn't make a trade and had Guentzel just walk.

It was probably the only good offer that Dubas had that provided the pens with picks, roster player, and much needed prospects as our pool is completely bare.

At the end of the day we got future pieces that we wouldn't have had if he didnt get traded.

The Penguins and their fans knew what it would cost to be competitive by being buyers most seasons, and now they're going to pay for it.

The penguins paid and it paid offer, now we deal with the consequences.

That being said, f*** Sullivan, fire him into the sun

 

[eXile3]

Jake didn't want to extend in the summer before the season, then his agent made up some shit about not wanting to negotiate during the season, I think blokes getting mad about this is like when Lloyd thinks he's got a chance when he's got shit all of a chance in Dumb and Dumber.

Jake didn't want to be on the Penguins anymore and blokes here seem to be really hurt by the mere thought of this being a hard truth. I wouldn't be shocked if Jake re-signs with his new team or a different one during free agency.

Yeah when Jake stayed in the bench after practice with his head hung I thought how much he didn’t want to be there?

I wish people stop forcing this obvious false narrative. Dubas just came out and said he didn’t actually negotiate with him after the season started.

 

[HandshakeLine]

When you think about it, if Kris Beech had really turned into the next Ron Francis, that Jágr trade wouldn't have been half bad.

 

[SEALBound]

Except this team sucks shit. Clearing cap for any return is better than sitting on these guys. But - Summer is still around the corner - which is clearly the only time the guy works before he takes vacation to catch high school hockey.



That's at least me.

It all ties together. Keeping a failed coach. Making ZERO in-season moves. None of it makes a damn bit of sense. So to rationalize it - I create a scenario where that DOES make sense:
- You did not actually want the playoffs because that gives you more leverage w/Jake and others (than already representing the entire FO)

Because clearly making in season adjustments or coaching/system adjustments is, you know, a path to different - a path to success. Not doing those things is what exactly? Stupidity?

No, I disagree with you there. I would rather roll the dice that they play better by seasons end and after a couple of teams miss on FAs, they can circle to us for a trade - mainly for Eller or Acciari. The center FA looks pretty bleak this year.

 

[canadianguy77]

Can you provide a source? Cuz I feel like if that's true, this place would be way more up in arms over the absolute absurdity of it.

Pretty sure the “source” is his own mind. Dude is extremely sour about this coach but blames the team captain for some reason. It’s crazy. If Crosby is looking around the room and everyone on the team hates the coach, he isn’t going to lobby for the coach lol. HOG must truly think 87 is a scumbag.

 

[eXile3]

They’re not competing. You think the team has cup aspirations? They don’t. Guentzel is the guy who had to go to get any assets back into the fold. We don’t even know what his ask is. If he wants 9 mill long term are you comfortable with that? Is that good asset management?

Yes. Because those years with Jake would be more valuable and productive than anything we got in this trade. Or you could have traded him later. But to let him walk for peanuts is insane.

 

[Ryder71]

They are 2nd round guys years out. They peak at complimentary top six / top nine guys and they are already on the clock.

They aren’t helping the rebuild and Kyle is clearly trying to make this team competitive in a few years.

We are the Ken Holland Red Wings when they thought Larkin, Tatar and Nyquist was their future.

I wouldn't lump them all in together, weren't you high on Firkus? Or maybe I'm mixing you up with someone else. Anyway Koivunen could be a pretty nice piece.

 

[ChaosAgent]

"The Penguins got 3 prospects I've never heard of instead of 1 prospect I have heard of for Guentzel, so Kyle Dubas had a terrible deadline!"

The impression I get from this thread is that a lot of people are mad for a lot of different reasons, so I really think there was no way Dubas was going to have a winning deadline in the eyes of people here. People are mad that they traded Guentzel instead of not extending him. People are mad that Dubas didn't target a well known prospect over more less known prospects. People are mad that Dubas didn't trade players for the sake of getting rid of them. People are mad at Dubas for not getting more value for the players he did trade.

I think this board as a whole is just mad at the state of this team, and people are just jumping at anything to show their displeasure. Even had Dubas pulled off an insane return like Morrow, Blake and a 1st for Guentzel, you'd still have people mad about the deadline.

The remaining players, including the core and Karlsson, choked a game and flat out quit 2 games before they even started this week.

No one should have any delusions about retooling. The leadership has quit. Sully has quit and sucks

 

[Gurglesons]

No, I disagree with you there. I would rather roll the dice that they play better by seasons end and after a couple of teams miss on FAs, they can circle to us for a trade - mainly for Eller or Acciari. The center FA looks pretty bleak this year.

And our center depth looks exactly like it has since Hextall with two older elite stars and a 3C who is super old, but is allegedly defensive amazing.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yohe: Penguins rightly tie up Mike Sullivan through Sidney Crosby's final years

Just lol

 

[chethejet]

The regime of Dubas will come down to the rebuld and how fast. Who is the coach to do this and geting FSG to grasp the obvious. It is over and only a rebuild of the talent base will pay dividends down the road. It is not the window is closed, there is no freaken window. Move players after this season and next when the deals can be done for better prospects and picks.

 

[eXile3]

When you think about it, if Kris Beech had really turned into the next Ron Francis, that Jágr trade wouldn't have been half bad.

Is it bad that when I saw the deal this was the first trade I thought of?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Pretty sure the “source” is his own mind. Dude is extremely sour about this coach but blames the team captain for some reason. It’s crazy. If Crosby is looking around the room and everyone on the team hates the coach, he isn’t going to lobby for the coach lol. HOG must truly think 87 is a scumbag.

Genuinely, I have zero recollection of that happening. I feel like this place would be memeing that quote like crazy if it happened. Maybe it did and I missed it, I barely care enough about this team to put 'em on as background noise anymore.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wouldn't lump them all in together, weren't you high on Firkus? Or maybe I'm mixing you up with someone else. Anyway Koivunen could be a pretty nice piece.

I’m not high on any picks that aren’t a top five 1st rounder because that’s the only thing rebuilding this team.

Carolina is the best drafting team in the league. You think they are giving up anything they value in this trade?

Even getting Morrow would’ve been limp dick.

 

[SEALBound]

And our center depth looks exactly like it has since Hextall with two older elite stars and a 3C who is super old, but is allegedly defensive amazing.

Good thing we have three young prospects at center now that can help.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Genuinely, I have zero recollection of that happening. I feel like this place would be memeing that quote like crazy if it happened. Maybe it did and I missed it, I barely care enough about this team to put 'em on as background noise anymore.

IDK. I think there was some quote about it with Sid, but I think it was actually back when they first extended Sullivan after the B2B, not the most recent extension.