GDT: Pens 2024 Trade Deadline Thread: Jake Shake Talk here

[Lust for Life]

Bunting is 28 years old, signed for 2 more years at $4.5M. It seems Dubas really likes him, as he's one of his wins in Toronto. His assumption is he fit with Matthews/Marner, so he'll fit with Crosby the same way.

He was too expensive for what he brought to Carolina (3rd line winger for 4.5M), so I would think he had negative value for them.

As for the prospects:
Koivunen - 2nd round pick (#51)
Ponomarev - 2nd round pick (#53)
Lucius - 4th round pick (#124)

So basically we gave up Jake + a 1st rounder (Ty Smith) for:
Bunting
3 x 2nd rounder
1 x 4th rounder
and a conditional upgrade to 1st + conditional 5th rounder

I'm really surprised he didn't get a no-strings-attached 1st rounder draft pick out of this.

My biggest concern is what Sully will do to these guys .

I don't see the reasoning behind being worried about draft slot. Their russian guy who for all intents and purposes is a fantastic prospect was a third rounder. That Jackson Blake dude who was discussed was a fourth rounder. Scott Morrow was also a second rounder.

Don't get me wrong, the prospect the Pens got may suck, all of them. I have literally no idea. My point is, after the first what, 10-15 spots? in the draft it's just throwing a dart blindfolded and so many guys drop not because they are bad prospects but that in that particular draft there are better players, the teams drafting near their spot prefer another position or player type, or any number of other reasons. We've seen plenty of first rounders bust and plenty of seventh rounders become all-stars.

 

[StaalForOne]

 

[Trade]

I would love as clean of a slate as possible going into the offseason.

Apparently Rust is untouchable. But anyone making less than Rust and over a million should be shopped.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Until Jake signs somewhere else, I have to believe he's coming back in July. If he wanted to be her so bad then he'll just re-sign as a FA.

Boy I sure hope he has trouble breaking in those Red Hurricane gloves. I"m really worried about his comfort

 

[Jacob]

If Kuznetsov has 3rd round pick value even at $4 million cap hit over 2 years surely Smith does too.

 

[TKalltheTime]

Burn it all down: Jarry, Smith, Rakell, Peterson, Acciari, Eller, Carter, Graves, POJ

Move all that crap for any and everything you can. You can’t trade Jake & not totally clean house on the roster & behind the bench. KILL IT WITH FIRE!

 

[Flying Dego]

Yep, my biggest problem with the trade was that these prospects don’t have NHL speed

They definitely can't move like Harkins

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

The thing is, other than maybe local hacks who quite literally don’t know, I haven’t seen anyone say we got “bad” prospects. Just simply that we didn’t get any of the Canes’ top-4. There are some sources that’ll say any of the top-5, but saying we got their 5th, 7th, and 8th-best prospects doesn’t seem like a huge overreach.

What that lacks is context. For example, if, in 2012, someone traded for the Penguins 2nd best centre, you could go “wow, you only got their 2nd best centre!?!?” If that’s how it was listed it doesn’t say much. Saying it’s Malkin and he’s second to Crosby gives far more weight.

How good are their top-4? How much better than the ones we got? No clue. But no one has said they’re bad players. In fact, all of them are apparently killing their respective leagues and they’re all still quite young.

The other aspect of this is by all accounts (not rumor mongering) nobody was offering top 3 blue chip prospects. I get we all expected that and twitter media helped prop that up, but in reality I doubt Dubas took 3 OK ones instead of 1 great one.

JR wouldn’t trade Lekkerimaki or Wallander, Perrault and Nishikin we most likely never on the table. Just cause guys on twitter "heard maybe so and so might be in play" doesn't mean there was an ounce of truth to it. Look how many so called journalists got Morrow and Blake wrong

 

[66871]

I would have liked to have seen a 1st in this trade but it is what it is. A few things on my mind here:

1) I've always worried a little bit about how Guentzel's career would go once he got on the wrong side of thirty. He's a bit undersized and I think some players in that category slow down around 33/34 years old. Depending on term I would have had some concern about a 10M deal to keep him (I'm not sure that would even be possible without paying some sort of penalty to free up cap space.)

2) His special chemistry with Crosby is a two-way street. It's possible he does not gel in Carolina and his value dips enough that the most logical place for him after this season is right back where he started on Sid's wing. I'm not saying he will be dog shit or that this scenario has a high likelihood. But it's possible that he looks different when he isn't playing alongside Sid and/or Geno.

3) Either way, (and unless I missed some indicator to the contrary) it seems clear that Guentzel wanted a deal at or very close to his value on the open market. In which case he should be, in theory, interchangeable with other players in the same price range. If that's the direction negotiations were headed, it's a no-brainer of a trade.

 

[Ryder71]

Failing to trade any of Smith, Eller, Carter or Ned at this point would be asinine. Fully commit to the suckage and make that top-10 pick. Give Sullivan zero options but to play the youth (even/especially when it leads to Ls).

Bunting-Crosby-Rust
Malkin-Ponomarev-Rakell
O’Connor-Poulin-Puustinen
Gruden-Acciari-Puljujarvi

That line up gives 2002-2004 vibes.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I could see smith going, but again, no one wants Carter and he has a NMC. Rakell I still think makes sense to keep.

Move out Eller/Ned, etc.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

They definitely can't move like Harkins

Harkins is love, Harkins is life, Harkins is eternal, Harkins does not forgive.

 

[Empoleon8771]

x.com

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I think those upside projections for Ponomarev and Koivunen look reasonable. Jesse described him as Blueger with much better playmaking, so I think that’s a 3C caliber guy.

If Koivunen ends up a Rakell caliber top-6 guy, I don’t think anyone looks back on this trade poorly. Especially if Bunting can be good for the Penguins.

 

[Ryder71]

many so called journalists got Morrow and Blake wrong

Which is why I was furious, made the letdown all the more profound. The way that was mishandled was epic!

 

[OnMyOwn]

I think those upside projections for Ponomarev and Koivunen look reasonable. Jesse described him as Blueger with much better playmaking, so I think that’s a 3C caliber guy.

If Koivunen ends up a Rakell caliber top-6 guy, I don’t think anyone looks back on this trade poorly. Especially if Bunting can be good for the Penguins.

I definitely think ponomarev is our 3C next year

 

[Jacob]

I could see LA taking Carter back at 50% retained and for like a 7th. Just for depth or moral support.

 

[Trade]

over/under 60 points for Sid next year

 

[Ryder71]

I think those upside projections for Ponomarev and Koivunen look reasonable. Jesse described him as Blueger with much better playmaking, so I think that’s a 3C caliber guy.

If Koivunen ends up a Rakell caliber top-6 guy, I don’t think anyone looks back on this trade poorly. Especially if Bunting can be good for the Penguins.

Button had Koivunen ahead of Blake and apparently ahead of Firkus and Yager.

Cutter Gauthier, Alexander Nikishin lead Craig Button’s top 50 NHL-affiliated prospects list | TSN

Cutter Gauthier was in the midst of some controversy this season, but there's nothing controversial about Craig Button ranking him at No. 1.

www.tsn.ca

 

[eXile3]

x.com

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Given the hit rate on prospects and picks, I think we go 2 NHL players, both bottom 6 and Bunting being one of them. Pretty unlikely it turns out to be more.

Have to think there was better out there and if not keeping Jake seemed like the better option.

 

[Come on]

Dumbass blew this one badly. He should go with Sullivan and the rest. He got younger Bunting is one year younger than Jake kudos and as usual he got a bunch of sh$t to throw at the wall praying something sticks. If he doesn't flip that trash pick for a good young player this trade is a straight middle finger to this organization. Terrible return for the most coveted player at the deadline.

 

[Flying Dego]

I definitely think ponomarev is our 3C next year

If Bunting clicks with the top 6, and Pono can be a good 3C this trade is fine.

We do very well if Koivunen makes the team.

I want to see all these guys plus Poulin or other prospects fill out the team. Done with old bottom 6 fodder.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

We’d be in the same spot if Guentzel walked in the summer except without 4 pieces that have a real shot to play and one legitimate NHLer.

3 GMs have tinkered with the complimentary pieces in different ways for 5+ years now and it didn’t work. (Obv that’s why coach should’ve been shitcanned but story for another day). They’re old and it’s over. It was simply just time to move on from an expiring piece going on 30 that happened to be the one guy that could actually return some value (vs Rakell, Rust, Smith etc).

Then we ought to just move the core too.

 

[EVGENIMERLIN]

Which is why I was furious, made the letdown all the more profound. The way that was mishandled was epic!

You and me both caught the hype virus. It made the return a damp squib, but clearly those prospects and players (Jarvis/Necas) weren’t being offered.

If anyone proves otherwise, then yes run Dubas out of town. I just don’t believe it happened and he got an OK return.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Then we ought to just move the core too.

I know you’re having a temper tantrum but can you at least see how moving a bunch of 35+ year olds with term and NMCs is a lot more difficult than moving Guentzel.

That’s without the obvious mention of 71, 58, and 87s status in hockey and the franchise versus Jake Guentzel.

 

[Ryder71]

Given the hit rate on prospects and picks, I think we go 2 NHL players, both bottom 6 and Bunting being one of them. Pretty unlikely it turns out to be more.

Have to think there was better out there and if not keeping Jake seemed like the better option.

I think Koivunen has a bit more upside there, bottom six? I don't think so. But likely be years before we find out for sure.