Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Jag68Sid87]

You certainly could do this, but I don't think it takes advantages of the resources we do have in the system.

• St. Ivany showed enough that I am fine penciling him in as the #6. We do need a Ruhwedel type behind him that can step in for injuries or poor form that wont lose their game in the pressbox. That was always the Ruhwedel value - as a #7.
• Spending 4M on a 3C doesn't make sense to me when we have Ponomarev, Poulin, Eller or DOC that can fill that role, probably in that order of preference. Try the guys we have, add externally in December if you have to.
• 3m for a 4th liner doesn't seem like good asset management. Tanev 2.0. Love the player, hate the value for his usage. Gruden is an option, Acciari is an option (on the W), as are the loser of the Poulin/Pono battle, Puljiarvi, etc. There's better places to spend that money.
• I don't think we need to retain 2.5m just to dump Reilly Smith, unless it's a part of a big trade for an under market value guy coming back. It's just one year, but that still hurts.

I'd rather take the 4M from Colton, 3.1M from Arviddson, 3M from Trennin and spend it on one 10m impact W.

This is where I am at, too. I don't hate Emp's roster ideas. I would be fine starting next season with those additions. I just like where Desert is at more.

I will continue to hammer home the youth philosophy until Kyle Dubas says otherwise, or proves his own words wrong by doing otherwise. Plus, I will also continue to insist that the team that finished 2023-24 is a team that can build something. We played solid hockey down the stretch and got results that were eluding us earlier in the season (and probably for the better part of two seasons). AND, that is WITH Todd Reirden running both the defense and the PP. Someone new is taking over both roles, so that alone could/should improve both the man advantage situation and the overall state of the defense. It was also without Jake Guentzel, but with an overall improved top six situation thanks to some tweaks.

- like DesertPenguin, I am comfortable with Jack St. Ivany on the third pairing. I am also comfortable keeping the status quo on defense and adding to the depth. Dubas began that exercise with Filip Kral, which is an underrated move imo. But I like P.O. Joseph alongside Kris Letang and I like the Swedish combo. Graves was not around for our playoff push, yes. So what if we simply replaced Ryan Shea with Ryan Graves from stretch drive roster? Ideally, you don't want the third LD to make more money than the other two LDs, but this is about roster construction. How you get there matters, but is not the only consideration. I am a huge believer in team chemistry, and to me the top two pairings have that. They also need a new voice to help them improve. We are getting that. Do we need a right depth defenseman? Yes. Do we need to draft right defensemen this year? Absolutely. We are barren behind St. Ivany right now and our two studs are up there in age. We need to start thinking about the future of the defense on the right side. On the left? Pickering is a nice prospect and he could be one season away from helping us. I would extend Pettersson, too. Nothing crazy but he is a solid D and every team that wins needs a Pettersson. We know because we have won. I agree that Ruhwedel's value was as a 7 but we have to avoid bringing HIM back because our coach LOVES him way too much. It is unhealthy for all involved.

- the center situation should be relatively easy. Find a trade partner for Eller because he has value and Sullivan will not play him on the fourth line if he sticks around. He will take ice time away from the younger centers we have, and we need to see what we have in those players. IF you can't trade Eller for whatever reason, then you should trade Acciari. My preference is Eller because he is older and he is better, therefore he brings back more via trade. I could be wrong about that because GMs and teams have their own ideas and agendas. Malkin is a center. Period. Enough with the lunacy. We need one top-six winger upgrade. When we traded Guentzel, it created that opening. Reilly Smith failed as a top-six winger and Michael Bunting replaced him. Now we need the Guentzel replacement.

- Just like starting the season with the same defensive duos, I would start training camp with the same first line as we ended '23-24. O'Connor-Crosby-Rust looked to me like the type of line that could both a) satisfy Sullivan and b) create scoring depth down the lineup. That is a good thing. The jury is out on O'Connor, sure. I was not sold on him until the stretch drive and his work with the top unit, but I would run with it and see what happens. If he was 22, we would all be excited. But he is 26. This team over-marinates prospects. It is what it is. I think there is still some upside there, just as I believe there is still some upside in P.O. Joseph, Jack St. Ivany and even Sam Poulin and Jesse Puljujarvi. I know there is upside in Puustinen.

- When we were successful, Rutherford brought in players and did some things that seemed counter to what Sullivan's philosophical preferences were (whether that was real or speculation is a moot point). Phil Kessel comes to mind. Dubas and Sullivan need to butt heads philosophically for this thing to work. But, I think it can. We traded a first-line player that Sullivan loves last season and it worked out OK. It took a while to get there, but the lineup that finished the season played good hockey. Now, tweak it a little bit more.

- We obviously have to solve the goaltending issue. Our projected starter was on the bench for our stretch run. Not good. But I will always downplay the goaltending position because quite frankly, we just don't know anything. When we don't have an automatic 60-game stud in goal, and maybe 7-8 teams in the league do at this time (MAYBE), then you just take a flier on a couple of guys and you hope. IF we can trade Jarry to a team that thinks he is an upgrade over what they have, and I think it is possible, then try. If not, don't. It sure sounds like Dubas wants to give Blomqvist a look. I am cool with that. I am also cool with trying a castoff or reclamation project. It worked with Ned. It could work again.

O'Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-top-six upgrade
young RFA acquisition-one of our C prospects-Rakell
Puljujarvi-Acciari-Puustinen
Poulin

Joseph-Letang
Pettersson-Karlsson
Graves-St. Ivany
NOT Ruhwedel, but similar D

Jarry or other
Blomqvist

This is the outline of what I would like to see this summer.

 

[chethejet]

POJ isn't close to a first pairing D. I expect Graves to be better and he has a pedigree when used to his strengths. Who Dubas brings in as coach will suggest Sullivan needs to adapt here. Adding a physical LW like Stephenson after trading Smith and always liked Trinen as well. Puustinen is a possible RW with a shot and speed to be good enough. But he has to get stronger and gain experience. Sullivan has to be better in April than October and getting younger players the time to mix in. BUt physical play with ST Ivany, Ludvig, sign Stephenson, Trinen and Pens can have the kind of balance needed in todays game.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

dump Jarry, sign Talbot to a 1yr and send POJ for Spencer Knight?

 

[Darren McCord]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794197772394217874

Can’t believe what Hextall did to us this year.

Can’t blame Sullivan or Dubas so gota blame the scapegoat who isn’t even with the team anymore lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, the expansion draft happened like 3 years ago at this point. If you can't recover lost depth over that window, that just says you're doing a bad job as a GM. That's directed at both Hextall and Dubas, by the way.

I think Hextall absolutely murdered the Penguins depth by the end of his time here, but at the same time, Hextall wasn't the one who decided to trade for a $10 million Erik Karlsson rather than address their depth forward issues.

 

[Victor Z]

Anyone who overly agonizes about Ryan Graves or makes asinine claims that "he not evun gud enuf 4 thurd pare!"....

....and yet pencils POJ in as a FIRST pair (or any pair west of Wilkes-Barre) is either blind, stupid or both.

The Pens need to go as far out of their way as necessary to find a REAL #1LD this offseason because there isn't anything close to one on this roster. Petts may look like prime Rod Langway compared to the rest of the panicky low-IQ types on the blue line, but he's hardly a #1 or even #2.

But instead they're probably nitpicking about whether Lars Eller should be the #3 or #4 center, and which 33-year-old mediocrity should be brought in at $4 mill+ to be next year's Lars Eller (or worse, next year's Jeff Carter); or pipe-dreaming about Mitch Marner, or whatever.

I realize that it's just a bunch of bored HFB posters doing that stuff and not the actual Pens' front office, but the guys with the nerd glasses and the big paychecks who are employed by the Pens need to do whatever it takes, first and foremost, to address what is by far the most glaring weakness on the team before spending time shuffling the deck chairs to no tangible benefit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is where I am at, too. I don't hate Emp's roster ideas. I would be fine starting next season with those additions. I just like where Desert is at more.

I will continue to hammer home the youth philosophy until Kyle Dubas says otherwise, or proves his own words wrong by doing otherwise. Plus, I will also continue to insist that the team that finished 2023-24 is a team that can build something. We played solid hockey down the stretch and got results that were eluding us earlier in the season (and probably for the better part of two seasons). AND, that is WITH Todd Reirden running both the defense and the PP. Someone new is taking over both roles, so that alone could/should improve both the man advantage situation and the overall state of the defense. It was also without Jake Guentzel, but with an overall improved top six situation thanks to some tweaks.

- like DesertPenguin, I am comfortable with Jack St. Ivany on the third pairing. I am also comfortable keeping the status quo on defense and adding to the depth. Dubas began that exercise with Filip Kral, which is an underrated move imo. But I like P.O. Joseph alongside Kris Letang and I like the Swedish combo. Graves was not around for our playoff push, yes. So what if we simply replaced Ryan Shea with Ryan Graves from stretch drive roster? Ideally, you don't want the third LD to make more money than the other two LDs, but this is about roster construction. How you get there matters, but is not the only consideration. I am a huge believer in team chemistry, and to me the top two pairings have that. They also need a new voice to help them improve. We are getting that. Do we need a right depth defenseman? Yes. Do we need to draft right defensemen this year? Absolutely. We are barren behind St. Ivany right now and our two studs are up there in age. We need to start thinking about the future of the defense on the right side. On the left? Pickering is a nice prospect and he could be one season away from helping us. I would extend Pettersson, too. Nothing crazy but he is a solid D and every team that wins needs a Pettersson. We know because we have won. I agree that Ruhwedel's value was as a 7 but we have to avoid bringing HIM back because our coach LOVES him way too much. It is unhealthy for all involved.

- the center situation should be relatively easy. Find a trade partner for Eller because he has value and Sullivan will not play him on the fourth line if he sticks around. He will take ice time away from the younger centers we have, and we need to see what we have in those players. IF you can't trade Eller for whatever reason, then you should trade Acciari. My preference is Eller because he is older and he is better, therefore he brings back more via trade. I could be wrong about that because GMs and teams have their own ideas and agendas. Malkin is a center. Period. Enough with the lunacy. We need one top-six winger upgrade. When we traded Guentzel, it created that opening. Reilly Smith failed as a top-six winger and Michael Bunting replaced him. Now we need the Guentzel replacement.

- Just like starting the season with the same defensive duos, I would start training camp with the same first line as we ended '23-24. O'Connor-Crosby-Rust looked to me like the type of line that could both a) satisfy Sullivan and b) create scoring depth down the lineup. That is a good thing. The jury is out on O'Connor, sure. I was not sold on him until the stretch drive and his work with the top unit, but I would run with it and see what happens. If he was 22, we would all be excited. But he is 26. This team over-marinates prospects. It is what it is. I think there is still some upside there, just as I believe there is still some upside in P.O. Joseph, Jack St. Ivany and even Sam Poulin and Jesse Puljujarvi. I know there is upside in Puustinen.

- When we were successful, Rutherford brought in players and did some things that seemed counter to what Sullivan's philosophical preferences were (whether that was real or speculation is a moot point). Phil Kessel comes to mind. Dubas and Sullivan need to butt heads philosophically for this thing to work. But, I think it can. We traded a first-line player that Sullivan loves last season and it worked out OK. It took a while to get there, but the lineup that finished the season played good hockey. Now, tweak it a little bit more.

- We obviously have to solve the goaltending issue. Our projected starter was on the bench for our stretch run. Not good. But I will always downplay the goaltending position because quite frankly, we just don't know anything. When we don't have an automatic 60-game stud in goal, and maybe 7-8 teams in the league do at this time (MAYBE), then you just take a flier on a couple of guys and you hope. IF we can trade Jarry to a team that thinks he is an upgrade over what they have, and I think it is possible, then try. If not, don't. It sure sounds like Dubas wants to give Blomqvist a look. I am cool with that. I am also cool with trying a castoff or reclamation project. It worked with Ned. It could work again.

O'Connor-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-top-six upgrade
young RFA acquisition-one of our C prospects-Rakell
Puljujarvi-Acciari-Puustinen
Poulin

Joseph-Letang
Pettersson-Karlsson
Graves-St. Ivany
NOT Ruhwedel, but similar D

Jarry or other
Blomqvist

This is the outline of what I would like to see this summer.

I want to go into next year with opportunities for youth but I think there's a healthy balance between "no youth" and "too much youth". You need some veterans to insulate them in case they struggle at first, we don't know how these guys would do in full time roles.

That's why my roster had a bunch of young but semi-proven NHLers, I think that makes a lot of sense for the Penguins to be targeting those kind of players. I'd even look at trading some of their prospects for young proven NHLers, guys like Necas, Robertson, Kotkaniemi and Hague all fit that. I'd substantially rather trade both of their 2nds to get 2 guys (Necas would obviously cost way more) like that over just using those 2nd rounders to draft some guys.

The Pens need to go as far out of their way as necessary to find a REAL #1LD this offseason because there isn't anything close to one on this roster. Petts may look like prime Rod Langway compared to the rest of the panicky low-IQ types on the blue line, but he's hardly a #1 or even #2.

Do you mean a LD for Letang here? I don't think they need a "real #1LD" to be playing with him.

Pettersson-Karlsson as a pair was terrific last year, that's a legitimate top pair even if Pettersson isn't a "real #1LD". They absolutely need a legitimate LD partner for Letang, but frankly Letang's pair is probably the 2nd pair at this point. You need a solid middle pair guy but you don't need anything more than that IMO.

 

[Victor Z]

Pettersson-Karlsson as a pair was terrific last year, that's a legitimate top pair even if Pettersson isn't a "real #1LD". They absolutely need a legitimate LD partner for Letang, but frankly Letang's pair is probably the 2nd pair at this point. You need a solid middle pair guy but you don't need anything more than that IMO.

It's not like they could find a real #1LD without mortgaging the farm anyway, so I agree:

What they really need is the reincarnation of Brian Dumoulin (from about 5 years ago) to pair up with Letang.

Someone who will be the defensively responsible one and who will be the "brains" of the pairing & let Letang do his thing (and be ready to retreat quickly when it backfires).

 

[Perratrooper]

What kind of ask is there for DOC and Puljujarvi to Colorado?

 

[Ugene Magic]

If they want to compete there's not a lot of room for gambles in all their moves. They need one given addition whether it be top six wing or center.

Push out the dead weight in Graves and Acciari both whom are on IR. Adds 6.5 to the cap and bring in a better top 4 LD. The Pens have Eller to assume the 4C position until one of the prospects can take over after this coming year.

Bringing in a top 2 C is imperative to creating a top 9 worthy of making the playoffs. Personally, I don't think moving Geno to wing is going to do it, Geno has made himself being the 3c by not being able to keep up the defensive game, and however you see it, him being the 3C from the 2C position favors the teams depth adding another 2C to play on the 3rd line with capable players.

Smith, Lindholm/Stephenson, Rakell is a very good 2nd line hidden via the 3rd. Geno is not playing with scrubs, but with adequate wings in Bunting/Puustinen


The Pens can support going with....

O'Connor, Crosby, Rust
Bunting, Malkin, Puustinen
Smith, Lindholm/Stephenson, Rakell
Poulin, Eller, Pulju
Bemstrom

I like the Skjei talk, addition.

Skjei, Letang
Pettersson, Karlsson
POJ, St. Ivany/Ludvig


Those two "Key" additions are not just needed, they are imperative to their success. Beyond those two moves, the rest can be adjusted or moved about along the way.

 

[Andy99]

I want to go into next year with opportunities for youth but I think there's a healthy balance between "no youth" and "too much youth". You need some veterans to insulate them in case they struggle at first, we don't know how these guys would do in full time roles.

That's why my roster had a bunch of young but semi-proven NHLers, I think that makes a lot of sense for the Penguins to be targeting those kind of players. I'd even look at trading some of their prospects for young proven NHLers, guys like Necas, Robertson, Kotkaniemi and Hague all fit that. I'd substantially rather trade both of their 2nds to get 2 guys (Necas would obviously cost way more) like that over just using those 2nd rounders to draft some guys.



Do you mean a LD for Letang here? I don't think they need a "real #1LD" to be playing with him.

Pettersson-Karlsson as a pair was terrific last year, that's a legitimate top pair even if Pettersson isn't a "real #1LD". They absolutely need a legitimate LD partner for Letang, but frankly Letang's pair is probably the 2nd pair at this point. You need a solid middle pair guy but you don't need anything more than that IMO.

Skjei or Walker

 

[Ryder71]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1794197772394217874

Can’t believe what Hextall did to us this year.

So, McCann who disappeared for weeks at a time, Tanev who wasn't healthy and ERod who had one hot stretch and otherwise was vanilla? lol

Oh yea, those guys were world beaters here. lol

HOLY REVISIONIST HISTORY BATMAN, THEY SUCKED!




GLAD THEY'RE GONE!


NOTHING LIKE PINING FOR GLORIFIED CURTAIN JERKERS WHO REALLY AREN'T MISSED by anyone who has seen them play in a pens uniform!

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's not like they could find a real #1LD without mortgaging the farm anyway, so I agree:

What they really need is the reincarnation of Brian Dumoulin (from about 5 years ago) to pair up with Letang.

Someone who will be the defensively responsible one and who will be the "brains" of the pairing & let Letang do his thing (and be ready to retreat quickly when it backfires).

I don't know if he quite fits it, but I'd be totally good with giving Skjei a long-term deal this off-season. He's probably the closest guy to that.

 

[Ugene Magic]

So, McCann who disappeared for weeks at a time, Tanev who wasn't healthy and ERod who had one hot stretch and otherwise was vanilla? lol

Oh yea, those guys were world beaters here. lol

HOLY REVISIONIST HISTORY BATMAN, THEY SUCKED!




GLAD THEY'RE GONE!


NOTHING LIKE PINING FOR GLORIFIED CURTAIN JERKERS WHO REALLY AREN'T MISSED by anyone who has seen them play in a pens uniform!

McCann thrived in a bigger role. Properly used he was exactly what they needed. He was fine the year Carter was brought in. The fact they kept/protected Blueger over him was hilarious in a bad way.

I'm willing to bet McCann was worth more than the 3rd and D- Peter DiLiberatore Teddy brought back..

The fact is, this team wasted assets repeatedly along the way until they were baron of them. Costing them to move, take on even more bad contracts.

 

[Ryder71]

McCann thrived in a bigger role. Properly used he was exactly what they needed. He was fine the year Carter was brought in. The fact they kept/protected Blueger over him was hilarious in a bad way.

I'm willing to bet McCann was worth more than the 3rd and D- Peter DiLiberatore Teddy brought back..

The fact is, this team wasted assets repeatedly along the way until they were baron of them. Costing them to move, take on even more bad contracts.

Another fact is the players in question didn't show this sort of consistency or production when they were here. AGAIN McCann was invisible for WEEKS at a time, look it up if you don't believe me. They aren't missed nor should we revise history to suggest that they are.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't loop know if he quite fits it, but I'd be totally good with giving Skjei a long-term deal this off-season. He's probably the closest guy to that.

I wouldn’t. Plus LeBrun reported he’ll likely be re-signing in Carolina which makes sense.

McCann thrived in a bigger role. Properly used he was exactly what they needed. He was fine the year Carter was brought in. The fact they kept/protected Blueger over him was hilarious in a bad way.

I'm willing to bet McCann was worth more than the 3rd and D- Peter DiLiberatore Teddy brought back..

The fact is, this team wasted assets repeatedly along the way until they were baron of them. Costing them to move, take on even more bad contracts.

Not really at all. McCann, Tanev and Rodrigues had no value.

McCann found a fit in Seattle, but imagine even if moved now he returns very little.

Rodrigues has been signing bargain bin contracts.

Honestly, we are lucky Seattle didn’t take Pettersson if you want to talk about mistakes around the expansion draft.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Another fact is the players in question didn't show this sort of consistency or production when they were here. AGAIN McCann was invisible for WEEKS at a time, look it up if you don't believe me. They aren't missed nor should we revise history to suggest that they are.

I wouldn’t. Plus LeBrun reported he’ll likely be re-signing in Carolina which makes sense.



Not really at all. McCann, Tanev and Rodrigues had no value.

McCann found a fit in Seattle, but imagine even if moved now he returns very little.

Rodrigues has been signing bargain bin contracts.

Honestly, we are lucky Seattle didn’t take Pettersson if you want to talk about mistakes around the expansion draft.

I'm speaking to asset management waste. McCann served a purpose because our elite centers could not stay healthy. They worried about keeping a 4th liner over a top six.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm speaking to asset management waste. McCann served a purpose because our elite centers could not stay healthy. They worried about keeping a 4th liner over a top six.

You’re almost there.

They protected Carter and Blueger for that exact reason because Sullivan didn’t trust McCann as a center

 

[orby]

I can see them moving Malkin to wing and signing Necas to play 2C.

 

[ChaosAgent]

It is just disingenuous to not caveat statements about losing players with "well there was an expansion draft so they had to lose one for nothing." The overall point is fine but omitting that fact discredits the person making the point.

 

[Ulf5]

I can see them moving Malkin to wing and signing Necas to play 2C.

Necas is a RFA.

 

[orby]

Necas is a RFA.

Oh. For some reason I thought he was a UFA. In any case there are rumblings that the Canes aren't gonna bring him back.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Bottom 6 players being inconsistent isn’t a new thing. That’s why they’re there.

The GM has to rotate them. Besides a proven 3C* you only sign bottom 6 players to 1 or 2 years max! If you can’t get them on those terms move on.

*Or a decent young winger with high probability of moving into the top 6

 

[PensPlz]

I got a charity bag this year. Just pulled out Jansen Harkins autographed puck...

You don't know how excited I am...

Sign him.

 

[Ryder71]

I got a charity bag this year. Just pulled out Jansen Harkins autographed puck...

You don't know how excited I am...

Sign him.

Fantastic!