Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Turin]

Both CJ and Friedman have said they’re trying to trade him, I wouldn’t worry about not being able to move him yet.

 

[Sideline]

If they can't trade Jarry for value, I think it was pretty god damn dumb to re-sign Nedjelkovic in the first place. It's not even just from the money spent on the position, but you could just run with Jarry-Blomqvist for a few years and eventually let Blomqvist take over the starter's role.

The Nedjelkovic deal only makes sense in the context of trading Jarry as well. If they can't trade him, they shouldn't have kept Nedjelkovic and should have just run with Jarry-Blomqvist.

Blomqvist has zero NHL experience. The GM saying they expect him to push for a job next year is exactly what previous regimes have said about the likes of Eric Tangradi and Derrick Pouliot.

 

[Gurglesons]

Both CJ and Friedman have said they’re trying to trade him, I wouldn’t worry about not being able to move him yet.

He'll need to be traded within the next 6 days then.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Blomqvist has zero NHL experience. The GM saying they expect him to push for a job next year is exactly what previous regimes have said about the likes of Eric Tangradi and Derrick Pouliot.

Okay? You can have a backup with zero NHL experience to start a year.

It's funny that people here scream about this team not giving young players a chance, but then freak out about giving a young player a chance in a backup goalie role because "he has zero NHL experience".

 

[Sideline]

Okay? You can have a backup with zero NHL experience to start a year.

It's funny that people here scream about this team not giving young players a chance, but then freak out about giving a young player a chance in a backup goalie role because "he has zero NHL experience".

They signed a career backup to a very short and relatively cheap contract. Ned is easily moved if Blomqvist is clearly a better option. It's not like they gave him 6 years or a NMC.

If Blomqvist sucks you are scrambling to find a Ned level guy in December after they have all found homes for the season.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Blomqvist has zero NHL experience. The GM saying they expect him to push for a job next year is exactly what previous regimes have said about the likes of Eric Tangradi and Derrick Pouliot.

Goaltenders are weird. It's not out of the question.

Matt Murray only had like 30ish more games than Blomqvist before vaulting right to B2B Cups. It's certainly not a good 1 to 1 comparison but I dunno... it's not like bringing forwards or especially defensemen along. You can platoon a guy like Blom w/ a vet and I'd be fine enough with it. Especially considering where this team is at right now.

The real dumb thing to do with goaltenders is pay them and/or get attached to them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They signed a career backup to a very short and relatively cheap contract. Ned is easily moved if Blomqvist is clearly a better option. It's not like they gave him 6 years or a NMC.

Or the more realistic outcome, they keep Blomqvist stashed in the AHL even if he's better than Jarry and/or Nedjelkovic.

You shouldn't be saying "they can move the deal if they need to" 5 days after signing the contract.

If Blomqvist sucks you are scrambling to find a Ned level guy in December after they have all found homes for the season.

If Nedjelkovic sucks, you're stuck with his $2.5 million dead cap for the entirety of his deal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If they weren't going to trade Jarry but were still uneasy about Blomqvist being the backup immediately, they should have brought in a 1 year stopgap that could be waived and stashed in WBS if Blomqvist outperforms him. They should have tried to find the 2023 version of Nedjelkovic, a guy who would take a 1 year, $1.5 million deal that you could throw aside if Blomqvist is better.

If they wanted to make sure they didn't rush Blomqvist, they should have signed someone like Martin Jones to a 1 year, low money deal. The Nedjelkovic deal in the context of keeping Jarry just shows a lack of planning from Dubas, if that is actually the case. I do think Dubas is actively trying to move him and probably does end up moving him, but he shouldn't have signed Nedjelkovic to a multi-year deal before having something lined up with trading Jarry.

 

[Andy99]

Has Jarry been traded yet? Come on Dubas…who cares about value back..just get some cap space

 

[Malkinstheman]

The Wings and Oilers need to do something about their goaltending and Jarry is by far the best goalie available. There's bound to be a couple more goalie moves

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If they weren't going to trade Jarry but were still uneasy about Blomqvist being the backup immediately, they should have brought in a 1 year stopgap that could be waived and stashed in WBS if Blomqvist outperforms him. They should have tried to find the 2023 version of Nedjelkovic, a guy who would take a 1 year, $1.5 million deal that you could throw aside if Blomqvist is better.

If they wanted to make sure they didn't rush Blomqvist, they should have signed someone like Martin Jones to a 1 year, low money deal. The Nedjelkovic deal in the context of keeping Jarry just shows a lack of planning from Dubas, if that is actually the case. I do think Dubas is actively trying to move him and probably does end up moving him, but he shouldn't have signed Nedjelkovic to a multi-year deal before having something lined up with trading Jarry.

Oh come on... a Jarry/Ned tandem clocking in at ~8M doesn't appeal to you?

Not to mention the good possibility of friction due to how last year ended. What's not to like, Emp?

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

The Wings and Oilers need to do something about their goaltending and Jarry is by far the best goalie available. There's bound to be a couple more goalie moves

Avs too but their cap situation is rough.

 

[Sideline]

Or the more realistic outcome, they keep Blomqvist stashed in the AHL even if he's better than Jarry and/or Nedjelkovic.

You shouldn't be saying "they can move the deal if they need to" 5 days after signing the contract.

You think it makes no sense to sign a proven backup goalie because he might block a higher potential unproven goalie.

If the unproven guy isn't as good as you hope then you have Jarry and he needs a backup.

If the unproven guy is a world beater then you want to be able to make room for him.

Maybe Gurgs is right and Jarry is immovable without attaching a massive sweetener. Ned's contact is obviously easy to move; Blomqvist is not blocked.

Maybe Gurgs is wrong and Jarry is easily moved and even brings back good value. Blomqvist is not blocked, but he still needs a backup.

There is no scenario where signing Ned prevents the Penguins from starting the best of Ned, Jarry, or Blomqvist whenever they want. There are plenty of scenarios where not signing a good backup blows up in their faces.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You think it makes no sense to sign a proven backup goalie because he might block a higher potential unproven goalie.

No, I think it makes no sense to sign a proven backup goalie to a multi year deal because he will block a higher potential, near NHL ready goalie. They shouldn't have given term to a backup goalie when they have a very good goalie prospect that dominated the AHL last year.

Maybe Gurgs is right and Jarry is immovable without attaching a massive sweetener. Ned's contact is obviously easy to move; Blomqvist is not blocked.

Based on what? If Nedjelkovic goes back to Detroit performance days, his contract is absolutely not easily moved. Especially with the extra year on it.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol spending money on goaltenders is almost as smart as incessantly worrying about your friggin' third line and how much more the team could be spending on it while your top six can barely score and your powerplay is a dumpster fire because you have like 1 1/2 guys who can shoot.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, I think it makes no sense to sign a proven backup goalie to a multi year deal because he will block a higher potential, near NHL ready goalie. They shouldn't have given term to a backup goalie when they have a very good goalie prospect that dominated the AHL last year.

Had the Penguins done the same thing in the 2015 off-season by re-signing Greiss to a 2 year deal, they never would have gotten to Murray in the playoffs in 2016 and almost definitely wouldn't have won the cup that year.

Based on what? If Nedjelkovic goes back to Detroit performance days, his contract is absolutely not easily moved. Especially with the extra year on it.

I mean we did sign Zatkoff.

 

[Sideline]

No, I think it makes no sense to sign a proven backup goalie to a multi year deal because he will block a higher potential, near NHL ready goalie. They shouldn't have given term to a backup goalie when they have a very good goalie prospect that dominated the AHL last year.



Based on what? If Nedjelkovic goes back to Detroit performance days, his contract is absolutely not easily moved. Especially with the extra year on it.

Worst case you send him the the AHL. The cap relief is $1,150,000. So you're out all of $1.35MM.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let's go back to 2015 for a second. The Penguins had a goalie tandem in 2014-2015 of Fleury-Greiss, who both had fairly good seasons. Greiss was very comparable to Nedjelkovic, he was signed to a pretty cheap 1 year contract to be Fleury's backup. He was not re-signed after that year, which opened up an avenue for Murray to be the Penguins "#2 goalie" (not "backup" since Zatkoff was the backup, but the goalie that would replace Fleury if Fleury got hurt). The Penguins won the cup in huge part due to Murray being used in that "#2 goalie" role.

If JR would have given Greiss the same deal Dubas gave Nedjelkovic, it would instead by Greiss in that #2 goalie role. He would have both been the backup and the injury replacement for Fleury, which would have put another roadblock for Jarry playing. I don't think it's a stretch to say that decision alone would have cost the Penguins the cup in 2016.

I mean we did sign Zatkoff.

Zatkoff was the "backup" but Murray was the true "#2 goalie". Zatkoff sat behind Fleury while Fleury played in a ton of games, but when Fleury got hurt, Murray was the actual new "starter".

Which is the exact role I think they should have gone with if they were going to keep Jarry. This is all a moot point if they trade Jarry, but if they don't trade him, they should have gone with a 1 year cheap guy like Martin Jones as the backup and planned on Blomqvist taking over a significant role by the end of the season.

 

[Gurglesons]

Let's go back to 2015 for a second. The Penguins had a goalie tandem in 2014-2015 of Fleury-Greiss, who both had fairly good seasons. Greiss was very comparable to Nedjelkovic, he was signed to a pretty cheap 1 year contract to be Fleury's backup. He was not re-signed after that year, which opened up an avenue for Murray to be the Penguins "#2 goalie" (not "backup" since Zatkoff was the backup, but the goalie that would replace Fleury if Fleury got hurt). The Penguins won the cup in huge part due to Murray being used in that "#2 goalie" role.

If JR would have given Greiss the same deal Dubas gave Nedjelkovic, it would instead by Greiss in that #2 goalie role. He would have both been the backup and the injury replacement for Fleury, which would have put another roadblock for Jarry playing. I don't think it's a stretch to say that decision alone would have cost the Penguins the cup in 2016.



Zatkoff was the "backup" but Murray was the true "#2 goalie". Zatkoff sat behind Fleury while Fleury played in a ton of games, but when Fleury got hurt, Murray was the actual new "starter".

Which is the exact role I think they should have gone with if they were going to keep Jarry. This is all a moot point if they trade Jarry, but if they don't trade him, they should have gone with a 1 year cheap guy like Martin Jones as the backup and planned on Blomqvist taking over a significant role by the end of the season.

I'm cool with trading Jarry. Dude sucks.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Except he's absolute ass in the playoffs. Not a single year he's posted above 900sv%.

True, but it's 10 games. 6 of them playing while hurt.
Not much to draw on to project into the future. At this point the Sens just need all the help in the world to make the playoffs. So I think this was the best move they could have made in this market.
Plus Ullmark has proven he can still play well on bad defensive teams.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Goalie trades make no sense

Markstrom with a NMC and a fractured relationship got an expected late 1st that could be higher and young body on D

Ullmark in the division got a guaranteed late 1st, young body on D, and had to take $ back with term.

Pens also traded Murray with no retention and no money coming back for a 2nd+Gruden lmao.

So I have no idea what Jarry could net you. He’s never quite had Markstrom’s highs but his numbers last year were better and he’s younger and cheaper in terms of AAV.

wouldn’t be surprised if his value was negative or worth a 2nd

 

[Freeptop]

He'll need to be traded within the next 6 days then.

My feeling is that he'll either be traded during the draft this weekend, or not at all.

There's a chance that another team could circle back to Jarry if they miss out on UFA goalies on July 1st, but I don't find that possibility very likely, given Jarry's contract. If a team likes him, they'll want to be able to sign UFAs based on having Jarry's cap hit already. And if his cap hit is unpalatable before July 1st, it will be even moreso afterwards.

 

[Gurglesons]

My feeling is that he'll either be traded during the draft this weekend, or not at all.

There's a chance that another team could circle back to Jarry if they miss out on UFA goalies on July 1st, but I don't find that possibility very likely, given Jarry's contract. If a team likes him, they'll want to be able to sign UFAs based on having Jarry's cap hit already. And if his cap hit is unpalatable before July 1st, it will be even moreso afterwards.

Agreed. He's going prior to July 1st or we are stuck with him.

I hope Dubas has a trick up his sleeve that doesn't end with us paying assets or getting stuck with a horrible deal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

One more though regarding trading Jarry, I'd also note that "trading assets" to make a Jarry move more feasible is something I'd be fine with to an extent. That doesn't mean trade a 2nd to move him of course, but if you could convince Calgary to do Jarry for Mangiapane and Vladar by throwing on Poulin in the deal as well, I'd be pretty fine with that.

I just don't want to trade picks or legitimate prospects on top of Jarry to move him. But throwing some grab-bag guys who add value but the Penguins won't miss much in the deal is fine with me. It's probably not popular to throw Poulin in that group, but he's really the main example of that kind of guy to me.

 

[Sideline]

Agreed. He's going prior to July 1st or we are stuck with him.

I hope Dubas has a trick up his sleeve that doesn't end with us paying assets or getting stuck with a horrible deal.

You're probably right. If he's here at noon on July 1st, best bet is probably waiting for his annual November-December hot streak and hoping someone that runs into goalie trouble sees him as the way to save their season.