Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Sidney the Kidney]

They're not going to shoot themselves in the foot and not have a legitimate goalie tandem for next year just so they can sell high on Jarry. That's just not how they operate.

If they can get a Talbot-Nejdelkovic kind of tandem, I think they'd do it. But they're not going to hurt themselves with an awful goalie situation just to sell Jarry this off-season.

How is trading Jarry shooting themselves in the foot? The entire reason we're moving (or want to) on from him is because he's inconsistent as f*** and disappears after January. Trading Jarry and simply running a tandem of any goalies you can sign in free agency is going to result in the same level of 'tending we get with Jarry.

If Jarry was better than your typical $3-$4 million FA goalie, we wouldn't even be discussing trading him. It's the fact he gives no better goaltending than those guys that's the selling point of trading him.

 

[SEALBound]

I honestly don't care. The goaltending position is so violatile getting out of Jarry's contract without taking anything back is a huge win for me.

I mean, it's a VERY results-based position.

If LA comes us and says Kaliyev+2nd for Jarry and we do, then sign Neds, and run Neds-Blom to start the year and then Kaliyev is a HS, Neds is running a .820sv%, and Blomqvist shows he's not ready as we are plugging along with a 5-15 record through the first quarter, people are going to be mad.

But if Kaliyev score 15 through 20gp, Neds is running .920%, and Blomqvist is at .930% as a backup, then I imagine people would be happy as long as we are in a playoff spot.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How is trading Jarry shooting themselves in the foot? The entire reason we're moving (or want to) on from him is because he's inconsistent as f*** and disappears after January. Trading Jarry and simply running a tandem of any goalies you can sign in free agency is going to result in the same level of 'tending we get with Jarry.

If Jarry was better than your typical $3-$4 million FA goalie, we wouldn't even be discussing trading him. It's the fact he gives no better goaltending than those guys that's the selling point of trading him.

How many of those guys are available? Because the Penguins will presumably want 2 of those guys if they're running with a platoon setup. They're not going to run with something like Nedjelkovic-Blomqvist to start next year.

Like I said above, if they can get something like a Talbot-Nedjelkovic goalie duo, I think they would do it. But they're not going to go into next year with Nedjelkovic-Blomqvist or Nedjelkovic-some random UFA backup.

It's shooting yourself in the foot if you can't get another goalie who can give you 30+ games of solid goaltending play. In UFA this year, there just isn't many of those kind of goalies available.

My point isn't that "trading Jarry will be shooting yourself in the foot", it's "trading Jarry and not being able to pull off one of those $3 million UFA goalies would be shooting yourself in the foot". The reason that's the case this year is that there are only like 2 $3 million UFA goalies available this year.

They'd likely get a goalie back in any Jarry trade, so it's probably not a major issue, but they need to replace Jarry with a goalie who can give them roughly a half season worth of games.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I keep likening the Jarry situation to the Sully one. I'm not asking for them to be replaced because I think it's gonna fix things. I'm asking them to be replaced because they suck and I cannot f***ing stand them on the team anymore. I don't really give a shit about the win/loss ramifications because the team's dead in the water.

 

[Gurglesons]

My point isn't that "trading Jarry will be shooting yourself in the foot", it's "trading Jarry and not being able to pull off one of those $3 million UFA goalies would be shooting yourself in the foot". The reason that's the case this year is that there are only like 2 $3 million UFA goalies available this year.

They'd likely get a goalie back in any Jarry trade, so it's probably not a major issue, but they need to replace Jarry with a goalie who can give them roughly a half season worth of games.

At this point if we are focused on getting prospects and picks, I'd rather go into the season with Martin Jones playing 30 games than Tristan Jarry if someone will give us a 3rd for him.

 

[chethejet]

Jarry has shown he can be a good to very good goalie and the contract is not an albatross. 5 million AAV for the next 4 years is not a killer. Everyone wanted Bob out in Florida. Bob is winning them cups. With a better D and forward play especially the 4th line, I expect Jarry to be much better. Graves maybe with Quinn will be used to his strengths.

 

[Empoleon8771]

At this point if we are focused on getting prospects and picks, I'd rather go into the season with Martin Jones playing 30 games than Tristan Jarry if someone will give us a 3rd for him.

That sounds like an awful idea.

I don't mind moving on from Jarry and replacing him with a Talbot type of platoon goalie, but this team is still trying to at least be competitive. Replacing Jarry with Martin Jones is a huge downgrade because Jones is horrible. Jones has had 1 season above a .900 save% in the last 6 years, and it was in only 19 starts with the Leafs last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

That sounds like an awful idea.

I don't mind moving on from Jarry and replacing him with a Talbot type of platoon goalie, but this team is still trying to at least be competitive. Replacing Jarry with Martin Jones is a huge downgrade because Jones is horrible. Jones has had 1 season above a .900 save% in the last 6 years, and it was in only 19 starts with the Leafs last year.

If this team is still trying to be competitive then they should make moves to be competitive.

Based on trading Jake Guentzel, saying they are not going to sign any long term contracts, and focusing their team on acquiring prospects and picks, I do not believe this team is focused on being competitive.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If this team is still trying to be competitive then they should make moves to be competitive.

Based on trading Jake Guentzel, saying they are not going to sign any long term contracts, and focusing their team on acquiring prospects and picks, I do not believe this team is focused on being competitive.

They never said they weren't going to sign any long term contracts and Dubas has been explicit about wanting to add young NHL talent to the roster to make the current team better. Wasn't that a whole point you were rallying against Dubas for with the Guentzel trade, specifically with Bunting? That he targeted a win-now player in the return to help the team now?

The only non-competing move the Penguins have made in the last year was trading off a rental Guentzel, which was a no brainer decision for the team to make. They just gave out a huge deal to Graves and traded a 1st for Karlsson last off-season. They're not going to change from that to "sell off pieces and rebuild" in 6 months.

 

[Gurglesons]

They never said they weren't going to sign any long term contracts and Dubas has been explicit about wanting to add young NHL talent to the roster to make the current team better. Wasn't that a whole point you were rallying against Dubas for with the Guentzel trade, specifically with Bunting? That he targeted a win-now player in the return to help the team now?

The only non-competing move the Penguins have made in the last year was trading off a rental Guentzel, which was a no brainer decision for the team to make. They just gave out a huge deal to Graves and traded a 1st for Karlsson last off-season. They're not going to change from that to "sell off pieces and rebuild" in 6 months.

"I think we probably have more flexibility than is publicly thought," Dubas said. "I mean, we don't have a ton of positions to fill, and we have a lot of guys internal near the minimum. But I also don't think we're going to be big into the big, long-term, high-money guys. Just with where we're at, we need to try to find players on shorter-term that can come in and and help, but also continue to keep our focus on young players, prospects and draft picks, and trying to get those into the system and expedite things that way."

Exclusive: Penguins GM Kyle Dubas on Jake Guentzel, Alex Nedeljkovic, free agency, coaching search, more

Kyle Dubas isn't ready to rule out a potential Jake Guentzel return to Pittsburgh. "I don't think (the door) is closed," Dubas told me when I asked about a potential Guentzel return at the NHL's draft combine in Buffalo, N.Y. on Saturday.

www.dkpittsburghsports.com

As far as my comments towards the Guentzel trade. My issue with the Bunting acquisition was acquiring similar talent to what we already had in our top six as a value in the trade.

My beliefs for what this team should do and what I believe Kyle Dubas should do are not comparable.

Signing Tristan Jarry was a mistake from day one.

 

[Empoleon8771]

"I think we probably have more flexibility than is publicly thought," Dubas said. "I mean, we don't have a ton of positions to fill, and we have a lot of guys internal near the minimum. But I also don't think we're going to be big into the big, long-term, high-money guys. Just with where we're at, we need to try to find players on shorter-term that can come in and and help, but also continue to keep our focus on young players, prospects and draft picks, and trying to get those into the system and expedite things that way."

Exclusive: Penguins GM Kyle Dubas on Jake Guentzel, Alex Nedeljkovic, free agency, coaching search, more

Kyle Dubas isn't ready to rule out a potential Jake Guentzel return to Pittsburgh. "I don't think (the door) is closed," Dubas told me when I asked about a potential Guentzel return at the NHL's draft combine in Buffalo, N.Y. on Saturday.

www.dkpittsburghsports.com

That article also starts with Dubas saying he wouldn't rule out bringing back Guentzel, who is by definition a long-term, high money guy.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think that’s gotta be a bad haircut … I don’t remember him looking that way back near the end of the season… unless of course the stress of the offseason got to him

To be fair, if I had to deal with the public embarrassment of being on our PP, I'd have a lot less hair too.

 

[Gurglesons]

That article also starts with Dubas saying he wouldn't rule out bringing back Guentzel, who is by definition a long-term, high money guy.

Okay. You said he didn't say what he said. Now you are changing the argument.

"They never said they weren't going to sign any long term contracts "

"Dubas said. "I mean, we don't have a ton of positions to fill, and we have a lot of guys internal near the minimum. But I also don't think we're going to be big into the big, long-term, high-money guys. "

 

[Empoleon8771]

Okay. You said he didn't say what he said. Now you are changing the argument.

"They never said they weren't going to sign any long term contracts "

"Dubas said. "I mean, we don't have a ton of positions to fill, and we have a lot of guys internal near the minimum. But I also don't think we're going to be big into the big, long-term, high-money guys. "

I hadn't seen that article, which was posted last week. I thought you were referring to an older quote.

So yes, he said that. He also said that he wouldn't rule out bringing Guentzel back, and also noted they have a good amount of flexibility with cap space and the roster. So unless they're just going to sit with $5+ million in cap space to enter the year, they're going to be active and bringing in at least moderately expensive players.

Dubas has been pretty explicit of his plans for what to do with this team: get younger while still remaining moderately competitive. He has said this time and time again and hasn't done anything to suggest that he's veering from that path. I don't see any reason to read into quotes to draw different conclusions than what he has explicitly said.

 

[Gurglesons]

I hadn't seen that article, which was posted last week. I thought you were referring to an older quote.

So yes, he said that. He also said that he wouldn't rule out bringing Guentzel back, and also noted they have a good amount of flexibility with cap space and the roster. So unless they're just going to sit with $5+ million in cap space to enter the year, they're going to be active and bringing in at least moderately expensive players.

I assume they target a top nine winger or 3C that they can get on a year or two year deal similar to Eller. A LHD in a similar situation and a back-up goalie.

If I were to look at the UFA market, something unsurprising would be like.. Tyler Johnson at 2.5 x 2, Brodie at 3 x 1, and some back up goalie.

Could see them target Hayton, Miller, Cousins, DeAngelo, or Katchouk given the Soo connection too.

 

[SEALBound]

Bunting was not like anything we had in the top 6. He was our most impactful winger down the stretch scoring 19pts in 21gp. His skill set was something that's been missing from the roster since Hornqvist left.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I assume they target a top nine winger or 3C that they can get on a year or two year deal similar to Eller. A LHD in a similar situation and a back-up goalie.

If I were to look at the UFA market, something unsurprising would be like.. Tyler Johnson at 2.5 x 2, Brodie at 3 x 1, and some back up goalie.

Could see them target Hayton, Miller, Cousins, DeAngelo, or Katchouk given the Soo connection too.

See, I don't view those kind of moves as "not trying to be competitive". I view selling off players as "not trying to be competitive".

He's going to continue the "remain moderately competitive while building up the prospect pool" route that he has been pretty explicit about pursuing. He's not going to make another Karlsson type of trade and likely won't be giving out any huge UFA deals (Guentzel is the only one I see as even a bit possible), but he'll still try to make moderate adds with the intent of keeping the team as a near playoff team.

I could definitely see them trading Jarry, but the downgrade from Jarry to Jones is too drastic for me to think Dubas would be fine with it because "we're not competing". It's probably a moot point though, I imagine any Jarry trade would involve a goalie coming back anyway.

I still think a deal around the basis of Jarry for Skinner makes a lot of sense, especially if the Penguins retain a bit on Jarry.

 

[Gurglesons]

See, I don't view those kind of moves as "not trying to be competitive". I view selling off players as "not trying to be competitive".

He's going to continue the "remain moderately competitive while building up the prospect pool" route that he has been pretty explicit about pursuing. He's not going to make another Karlsson type of trade and likely won't be giving out any huge UFA deals (Guentzel is the only one I see as even a bit possible), but he'll still try to make moderate adds with the intent of keeping the team as a near playoff team.

I could definitely see them trading Jarry, but the downgrade from Jarry to Jones is too drastic for me to think Dubas would be fine with it because "we're not competing". It's probably a moot point though, I imagine any Jarry trade would involve a goalie coming back anyway.

I still think a deal around the basis of Jarry for Skinner makes a lot of sense, especially if the Penguins retain a bit on Jarry.

Dubas needs to just like. Pick a lane then.

 

[SEALBound]

Jake-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Geno-Rakell
DOC-Pono-Smith Trade / FA
Poulin-Eller-Acciari

sign me up honestly. The roster itself wasn't the issue. Sullivan Hockey and effort on a nightly basis was a bigger issue so if they aren't willing to fix that, not like a ton of (or zero) roster moves will fix anything.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I can't wait for Jake to sign some dumb contract with another team so all the "Jake might come home!" stuff can die once and for all. Twitter's been extra insufferable trying to find any Pens-related rumors.

 

[M4lk1n71]

Jake-Sid-Rust
Bunting-Geno-Rakell
DOC-Pono-Smith Trade / FA
Poulin-Eller-Acciari

sign me up honestly. The roster itself wasn't the issue. Sullivan Hockey and effort on a nightly basis was a bigger issue so if they aren't willing to fix that, not like a ton of (or zero) roster moves will fix anything.

Sullivan is not the issue. He brought us 2 cups. The roster is the issue. Trade Poulin, Eller and Acciari. Get Guentzel and pay him whatever he wants.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I think this applies to Laine, but not Stamkos. I hear what you are saying, and this is a point to be reflected upon. But I don't think our roster is in danger of suddenly turning into PP specialists everywhere.

Case in point, we currently have Bryan Rust as a first-line RW, first-unit PP member and first-unit PK member. That is a lot.

If you sign Stammer, you immediately move Rust to PP2. And you could conceivably change the lines up as well. Stammer is also a nice fallback option at center if you decide to go three veteran centers deep. Or insurance in case none of the C prospects are ready to take that third C role.

The more I think about, Laine does not make sense as you say. But Stammer is a different beast imo. All day, every day, if available.

I don't think Stamkos could be 3C for this team. If we got him it'd be as a winger and PP specialist.

Id rather go after Laine and let Stamkos stay at his natural position and rack up points beside Kucherov. I am unsure if Stamkos would thrive here.

 

[66-30-33]

Sullivan is not the issue. He brought us 2 cups. The roster is the issue. Trade Poulin, Eller and Acciari. Get Guentzel and pay him whatever he wants.

We will keep trading and getting new players until we make the playoffs and go "See? it was the players this WHOLE time!".

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I see David Quinn wasted no time in creating a burner, here.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sullivan is not the issue. He brought us 2 cups. The roster is the issue. Trade Poulin, Eller and Acciari. Get Guentzel and pay him whatever he wants.

Yeah man, could you imagine how good this team would be if they had Jake with Sullivan's coaching? Oh well, pipe dream, we'll never know how that'd turn out. Probably awesome though.