Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Big Friggin Dummy]

HF's opinions of Sullivan may not be the same opinions that the players have, though. I generally haven't heard much criticism of Sullivan even from disgruntled former players. If there was that kind of feeling internally, you'd usually hear about it either from current players or past players.

The rudest comment I can recall regarding Sullivan from an ex-player is how his offense is scripted and limits creativity. That's about as critical as I can remember reading from a former player.

Of course they're not. That's my whole point. They're either completely blasé and checked out, resigned to this slopshit and steady decline, or they adore the guy. If anyone, mainly Sid, was frustrated with the system or coaching--dude would've been gone years ago.

This is about the only place in the hockeysphere that has any kind of critique of Sullivan.

 

[Gurglesons]

Literally from the article you posted:

"About 18 months ago, Letang looked me in the eye and said, “Me, Sid, and Geno? We don’t want any other coach. Only him.”"

Yeah see above.

So you believe Crosby actually said "That's not how we do things in Pittsburgh." and Malkin sounded like Encino Man when describing his contract talks?

Show me the video footage not the quote from the dude who has no clue about that team and is a disciple of DK.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I fear we are drifting dangerously into the land of cope.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Of course they're not. That's my whole point. They're either completely blasé and checked out, resigned to this slopshit and steady decline, or they adore the guy. If anyone, mainly Sid, was frustrated with the system or coaching--dude would've been gone years ago.

This is about the only place in the hockeysphere that has any kind of critique of Sullivan.

This is exactly what I think the situation is.

Yeah see above.

So you believe Crosby actually said "That's not how we do things in Pittsburgh." and Malkin sounded like Encino Man when describing his contract talks?

How does that have any shred of relevance for a direct quote from Letang?

This isn't "Yohe claiming the team loves Sullivan". It's literally a direct quote from Letang saying the team loves Sullivan.

 

[Pancakes]

Hextall was trash. JR's final several years were trash. Dubas' first year was trash. Sullivan's last half decade has been trash. Mario's final few years as owner were trash. FSG's been trash since purchasing the team.

It's funny that this is the nuanced take and the correct take and people instead want to draw battle lines and get on the side of Hextall or Dubas or JR or Sullivan. Like they all suck. JR/Sullivan had a brief couple of years where they didn't suck and thank goodness for that because it gave us something most fans will never dream of having but the reality is ever since that brief period of success it's been a disastrously run organization from the top on down.

Now they're letting Mike Sullivan hire his friends. It's just colossally dumb lol.

I'll hope for better, but the past half decade+ has given no reason to expect better moving forward.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is exactly what I think the situation is.



How does that have any shred of relevance for a direct quote from Letang?

This isn't "Yohe claiming the team loves Sullivan". It's literally a direct quote from Letang saying the team loves Sullivan.

I'm not sure what you aren't grasping here.

Yohe literally has no source for that quote beyond "he looked me in they eye".

Find me video footage of the quote in a presser and I'll believe it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I fear we are drifting dangerously into the land of cope.

Yeah the talks about Sullivan on here are completely legit, but trying to extrapolate that to players and NHL executives is silly. There's a reason that Guerin named Sullivan the coach of the US Olympic team, and it has nothing to do with FSG loving Sullivan since he's a Boston dude.

Sullivan just has an insanely inflated reputation, especially with the Penguins. The simplest explanation of "the team loves him because of the back to back cups" makes far more sense than these conspiracy theories like "FSG won't let anyone fire him since he's from Boston" or that Letang saying "we only want to play for Sullivan" isn't real because it was reported by Yohe.

I'm not sure what you aren't grasping here.

Yohe literally has no source for that quote beyond "he looked me in they eye".

Find me video footage of the quote in a presser and I'll believe it.

You're literally saying a direct quote from Letang isn't real because "there is no video footage of it".

 

[Gurglesons]

Kind of hilarious re-reading that Hextall hit piece.

Hextall flirted with the idea of adding Vancouver forward J.T. Miller, a Pittsburgh-area native who recorded 99 points the previous season, in a three-team trade, but the Penguins would have lost Jason Zucker in the deal — a non-starter for an infuriated Sullivan and a move that would’ve clashed with FSG’s judgment that it couldn’t justify Miller’s massive contract extension from a business perspective.

Mike Sullivan was infuriated that the Penguins would acquire JT Miller and FSG couldn't justify bringing on his contract, but come on aboard EK65.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's funny that this is the nuanced take and the correct take and people instead want to draw battle lines and get on the side of Hextall or Dubas or JR or Sullivan. Like they all suck. JR/Sullivan had a brief couple of years where they didn't suck and thank goodness for that because it gave us something most fans will never dream of having but the reality is ever since that brief period of success it's been a disastrously run organization from the top on down.

Now they're letting Mike Sullivan hire his friends. It's just colossally dumb lol.

I'll hope for better, but the past half decade+ has given no reason to expect better moving forward.

For real. Why are people trying to take bizarre sides, here? These guys are all goofs and the biggest reason why we've found ourselves where we are. It's been a "stack more of the same shit on top of the shit that the last guy left" situation. Not a "well that guy's shit was better than the current shit we're piling on top."

It's all just shit.

 

[Gurglesons]

You're literally saying a direct quote from Letang isn't real because "there is no video footage of it".

So you believe Sidney Crosby said "That's not how we do things in Pittsburgh."

And Malkin sounds like this?

“They not think I good player,” Malkin wrote in a text message to Crosby.

“They not want me,” Malkin texted to Letang, who had stepped up efforts to console Malkin after signing his deal.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So you believe Sidney Crosby said "That's not how we do things in Pittsburgh."

And Malkin sounds like this?

“They not think I good player,” Malkin wrote in a text message to Crosby.

“They not want me,” Malkin texted to Letang, who had stepped up efforts to console Malkin after signing his deal.

There's a difference between Yohe reporting what his sources are saying versus a direct quote from Letang to Yohe. The quote from Letang about the team only wanting to play for Sullivan is directly from Letang to Yohe. These other quotes are just what his "sources" have told him, which we all know are highly suspect.

You're grasping at straws because you don't want to believe this core loves Sullivan, when everything out there overwhelmingly suggests that to be the case.

 

[Pancakes]

I fear we are drifting dangerously into the land of cope.

Regular Brain: David Quinn is incompetent and only here because Sullivan likes him. He will not improve the team.

Improved Brain: That may be true, but David Quinn actually had success with both Erik Karlsson and Adam Fox. He might be more beneficial than we think despite the optics of the hire looking bad.

Galaxy Brain: The team will suck again and David Quinn has tanking experience. If Mike Sullivan gets fired and David Quinn takes over, Quinn will guide us to the tanking promised land and get us the first overall pick.

 

[Gurglesons]

There's a difference between Yohe reporting what his sources are saying versus a direct quote from Letang to Yohe. The quote from Letang about the team only wanting to play for Sullivan is directly from Letang to Yohe. These other quotes are just what his "sources" have told him, which we all know are highly suspect.

You're grasping at straws because you don't want to believe this core loves Sullivan, when everything out there overwhelmingly suggests that to be the case.

Then why are they written like direct quotes just like the Letang quote you are citing?

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's funny that this is the nuanced take and the correct take and people instead want to draw battle lines and get on the side of Hextall or Dubas or JR or Sullivan. Like they all suck. JR/Sullivan had a brief couple of years where they didn't suck and thank goodness for that because it gave us something most fans will never dream of having but the reality is ever since that brief period of success it's been a disastrously run organization from the top on down.

Now they're letting Mike Sullivan hire his friends. It's just colossally dumb lol.

I'll hope for better, but the past half decade+ has given no reason to expect better moving forward.

Yeah the depth players are a good example of this. People blame Hextall for gutting the Penguins depth by letting McCann, Tanev and ERod go for nothing, which is absolutely valid. But it's also absolutely valid that Dubas did a dogshit job at filling out the depth last year when he had the money available to do so. And it's also absolutely valid that the Penguins have no young players coming up in their system able to take the roles because of dogshit drafting and developing by JR in the late 2010s/early 2020s. And it's also absolutely valid that Sullivan has picked favorites and has pushed out effective young guys (namely Gaudreau, ERod and Sprong) that could still today be useful depth players.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol I don't think it's for sure at all that the core "loves" Sullivan. I think that it's always been in their nature not to make waves and meddle when it comes to THAT side of the business. They are never going to say anything other than "Boy we just love playing for Mike!" even if they are seething every time they leave the rink.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's funny that this is the nuanced take and the correct take and people instead want to draw battle lines and get on the side of Hextall or Dubas or JR or Sullivan. Like they all suck. JR/Sullivan had a brief couple of years where they didn't suck and thank goodness for that because it gave us something most fans will never dream of having but the reality is ever since that brief period of success it's been a disastrously run organization from the top on down.

Now they're letting Mike Sullivan hire his friends. It's just colossally dumb lol.

I'll hope for better, but the past half decade+ has given no reason to expect better moving forward.

Yeah, we have a tendency to want to just lump the whole thing at one person's feet because it's easy and clean and convenient. During the 2021 series, it was Jarry that shit the bed. Meanwhile, Sullivan's coaching sucked, the team got no production from their top guys except Geno who was playing on one knee, special teams predictably sucked. In 2022, it was Domingue, though the guy got the team to a 3-1 series lead before the PK cratered, everyone disappeared when Sid got elbowed. The list goes on.

I still maintain that JR's approach never changed throughout his career, and the stuff he did leading up to the back to backs (and the moves absolutely did lead to the back to backs) was more of the same random throwing shit at the wall. This time, the shit stuck, almost accidentally.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

"That’s not how we do things in Pittsburgh,” he said. Crosby remained mostly quiet the rest of the night.

Maybe Rowdy Tellez was just quoting Crosby?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

lol I don't think it's for sure at all that the core "loves" Sullivan. I think that it's always been in their nature not to make waves and meddle when it comes to THAT side of the business. They are never going to say anything other than "Boy we just love playing for Mike!" even if they are seething every time they leave the rink.

Somebody probably asked 'em some dumb kindergarten question and they said somethin' like "Oh, Mike's been great. We're lucky to have him." And Yohe probably pitched a stiffy and did his usual wannabe novelist act where he goes hard with the journalistic freedom.

 

[66-30-33]

If they love Sully so much, I sure hope they love losing the rest of their careers.

 

[Pancakes]

lol I don't think it's for sure at all that the core "loves" Sullivan. I think that it's always been in their nature not to make waves and meddle when it comes to THAT side of the business. They are never going to say anything other than "Boy we just love playing for Mike!" even if they are seething every time they leave the rink.

I think if Sid disliked Sullivan he'd be gone. Since Sullivan is still here, I have to assume that Sid at least tolerates him.

Knowing Sid he probably has eternal loyalty to Sullivan for the back to back cups. So even if a part of his mind realizes that things are going south and have been for 6 years now he's probably still not willing to do anything about it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

lol I don't think it's for sure at all that the core "loves" Sullivan. I think that it's always been in their nature not to make waves and meddle when it comes to THAT side of the business. They are never going to say anything other than "Boy we just love playing for Mike!" even if they are seething every time they leave the rink.

I think we'd be hearing a lot more shit talking about Sullivan if there was a notable amount of discontent with him from players. But I don't recall hearing much of anything to suggest that in Sulllivan's time with the Penguins.

You heard whispers of it at times with guys like Cassidy in Boston or Hakstol on Seattle, and then things really started coming out after they were fired. I don't think we've had even a trickle of comments or rumors suggesting that with Sullivan.

 

[Pancakes]

While we're on the topic of coaching staffs, anyone find it annoying how Dubas doesn't allow assistants to speak to the media?

I'd love to know what David Quinn thinks needs to be done with the powerplay and the team to get them more successful, but based on Dubas' MO it doesn't sound like we'll ever hear from him.

Like Reirden got the piss taken out of him by us and everyone else for the team's ineptitude on defense and on the pp, but who knows what his actual stances were? Anything he thought was filtered through Sullivan.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think we'd be hearing a lot more shit talking about Sullivan if there was a notable amount of discontent with him from players. But I don't recall hearing much of anything to suggest that in Sulllivan's time with the Penguins.

You heard whispers of it at times with guys like Cassidy in Boston or Hakstol on Seattle, and then things really started coming out after they were fired. I don't think we've had even a trickle of comments or rumors suggesting that with Sullivan.

Hockey players don't talk shit on their coaches in public.

When the heat death of the universe occurs and Mike Sullivan is no longer coach, maybe some atoms will tell us something.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

When have we heard whispers of discontent with any coach EVER, here? Even with MJ the only evidence we had was "body language" out on the ice. That's... thin. And that guy was a certified moron. I think they are simply ambivalent and comfortable, have at least a certain amount of lasting respect based on the past and don't want to roll the dice at this late date. So do they SHARE in the blame... yes. Do they LOVE the guy? I dunno... at this point it's probably just like going into a job you've had for like 15 years and your boss is just some empty suit that hasn't done anything of note for a while but he doesn't bug you so you just shrug it away.

 

[vodeni]

Regular Brain: David Quinn is incompetent and only here because Sullivan likes him. He will not improve the team.

Improved Brain: That may be true, but David Quinn actually had success with both Erik Karlsson and Adam Fox. He might be more beneficial than we think despite the optics of the hire looking bad.

Galaxy Brain: The team will suck again and David Quinn has tanking experience. If Mike Sullivan gets fired and David Quinn takes over, Quinn will guide us to the tanking promised land and get us the first overall pick.

count me in Galaxy Brain tribe

lol I don't think it's for sure at all that the core "loves" Sullivan. I think that it's always been in their nature not to make waves and meddle when it comes to THAT side of the business. They are never going to say anything other than "Boy we just love playing for Mike!" even if they are seething every time they leave the rink.

they really showed that love in those two games against Chicago and Jackets and pretty much all this season...what a joke...love...comfort maybe ...but love...