Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Gurglesons]

Letang has flat out admitted that he, Sid and Geno only want to play for Sullivan.

Yohe: Mike Sullivan's loyalty should keep him in Pittsburgh

Mike Sullivan's loyalty to The Big Three will probably stop him from being seduced by another job.

www.nytimes.com

About 18 months ago, Letang looked me in the eye and said, “Me, Sid, and Geno? We don’t want any other coach. Only him.”

Yohe: Penguins' roller-coaster season shines spotlight on Mike Sullivan

Mike Sullivan has his hands full, but the Penguins coach also has the belief of his locker room.

www.nytimes.com

It’s pretty clear through a quick survey of the locker room that Sullivan is the only man this team wants to play for. Kris Letang even said it last year. The Big Three never wants another head coach.

Josh Yohe where you are getting these quotes?

I mean, if the core didn't stand by Sullivan, he'd have been gone a long time ago. I'm not saying any of the big three are directly telling FSG that he's their guy, but their refusal to speak out after years of compounding losses says to me they either adore the guy or at the very least are fine with things.

One out of character word from Sid and Sullivan would be gone. In an instant. /shrug

I know people get all f***ed up about "oh it's not Sid's job" or whatever, but like, at what point are we gonna accept that Sullivan's still here due in large part because of Sid, and to a lesser extent Geno and Letang? That's reality.

Sid, Geno and Letang have never been the type to turn on their coach.

 

[BobCole]

I mean, if the core didn't stand by Sullivan, he'd have been gone a long time ago. I'm not saying any of the big three are directly telling FSG that he's their guy, but their refusal to speak out after years of compounding losses says to me they either adore the guy or at the very least are fine with things.

One out of character word from Sid and Sullivan would be gone. In an instant. /shrug

I know people get all f***ed up about "oh it's not Sid's job" or whatever, but like, at what point are we gonna accept that Sullivan's still here due in large part because of Sid, and to a lesser extent Geno and Letang? That's reality.

At what point are we going to accept that the stars are old af, management (mostly Hextall) fumbled the rest of the roster, and that the team is in decline, as is inevitable after an almost 20-year run of being a contender? Blaming the stars because of your impression of their perceived loyalty to the coach is grasping at straws. The whole situation is what it is.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If Malkin is a big Sullivan backer we can add "is a masochist" to the things we now know about him.

He's got the thousand yard stare and post game/season cliches down. He's either just resigned to Sullivan or has bought in. /shrug

I miss the Geno that told Therrien to go f*** himself and that he'd be on the next plane to Russia if Therrien benched him.

 

[Pancakes]

The glass half full take here is that Quinn did well with Ek.

That's all I got

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He's got the thousand yard stare and post game/season cliches down. He's either just resigned to Sullivan or has bought in. /shrug

I miss the Geno that told Therrien to go f*** himself and that he'd be on the next plane to Russia if Therrien benched him.

Yeah I mean the whole team is on autopilot so it's not surprising.

Like Gurgs said above... it's tough to tell though because the core have never been coach killers despite the weird grousing at times to the contrary. People act like four coaches over the course of like 20 years is a lot or something.

Hell Malkin probably even saved a year of that utter goof MJ's career. Although Sid had the good sense to be like "f*** this."

 

[Gurglesons]

Why don't we blame Kyle Dubas who is the one who is actually in charge of Mike Sullivan instead of the players...?

Or do we "have to be patient"? Is this similar to how Mike Sullivan only played Jeff Carter because of Ron Hextall ?

Weird how everything is one GMs fault and suddenly we are blaming the players for Dubas' shitty routine.

 

[Darren McCord]

Why don't we blame Kyle Dubas who is the one who is actually in charge of Mike Sullivan instead of the players...?

Or do we "have to be patient"? Is this similar to how Mike Sullivan only played Jeff Carter because of Ron Hextall ?

Weird how everything is one GMs fault and suddenly we are blaming the players for Dubas' shitty routine.

They are both at fault and were/are awful. I think FSG is just as much to blame too for this. The want to keep their Boston buddy. I am just pissed at Hextall because he should of fired Sullivan before FSG came in and made him a god. He blew his chance. Dubas blew his chance this year before Sullivan became the U.S. coach. So ya they both suck.

 

[eXile3]

Why don't we blame Kyle Dubas who is the one who is actually in charge of Mike Sullivan instead of the players...?

Or do we "have to be patient"? Is this similar to how Mike Sullivan only played Jeff Carter because of Ron Hextall ?

Weird how everything is one GMs fault and suddenly we are blaming the players for Dubas' shitty routine.

I do blame Dubas. It’s one of my favorite things to do.

I’m just saying we don’t know the internal machinations of the locker room.

If we want to blame Dubas I will all day.

 

[The Old Master]

Weird how everything is one GMs fault and suddenly we are blaming the players for Dubas' shitty routine.

give us time, we will get around to everyone. we don't play favorites here.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kyle Dubas is very much giving me "we're gonna look back on all this in 10 years and rub our collective temples" vibes for sure.

 

[K Fleur]

Kyle Dubas is very much giving me "we're gonna look back on all this in 10 years and rub our collective temples" vibes for sure.

10 years from now is when Jarry’s contract ends.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

10 years from now is when Jarry’s contract ends.

Well then at least we'll have SOMETHING to celebrate.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hextall was trash. JR's final several years were trash. Dubas' first year was trash. Sullivan's last half decade has been trash. Mario's final few years as owner were trash. FSG's been trash since purchasing the team. The end was always going to come but this has been far more ugly than it needed to be. It's the laziness and pompous arrogance and a team petrified into inaction because they're scared to make Sid so much as frown if they make risky/difficult decisions--that's what's sucked.

And yeah, I think if we're being honest with ourselves, a small part of the slow death by attrition for this team has been this the core's unwillingness to speak up after years of disappointments. They're strangers, they'll never read this stuff, you don't have to fall on a grenade for them--nor would they care. They'd been treated like heroes for 20 years, deservedly so, it's fine to criticize them from time to time, in this case to the most minimal of degrees.

 

[K Fleur]

They just traded away Sid’s guy for peanuts.

I don’t think Crosby’s morale is that big of a factor in team decisions. He seems like he’s rather retire than ask for a trade and the end is getting close anyways soo..

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah I agree. I'm more than willing to let the core share the blame but I just have never actually seen any real evidence that they are these like... puppet masters behind the scenes. At worst they are simply too willing to be good soldiers. Which in this case is a bad thing but in all other instances is the exact kind of drama-free player you want.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yohe: Mike Sullivan's loyalty should keep him in Pittsburgh

Mike Sullivan's loyalty to The Big Three will probably stop him from being seduced by another job.

www.nytimes.com

About 18 months ago, Letang looked me in the eye and said, “Me, Sid, and Geno? We don’t want any other coach. Only him.”

Yohe: Penguins' roller-coaster season shines spotlight on Mike Sullivan

Mike Sullivan has his hands full, but the Penguins coach also has the belief of his locker room.

www.nytimes.com

It’s pretty clear through a quick survey of the locker room that Sullivan is the only man this team wants to play for. Kris Letang even said it last year. The Big Three never wants another head coach.

Josh Yohe where you are getting these quotes?



Sid, Geno and Letang have never been the type to turn on their coach.

I like how literal quotes from Letang saying "we love Mike Sullivan" somehow don't count as proof that the core loves Mike Sullivan, just because the article was written by Yohe.

 

[K Fleur]

I like how literal quotes from Letang saying "we love Mike Sullivan" somehow don't count as proof that the core loves Mike Sullivan, just because the article was written by Yohe.

Emp you once told me that Jack Johnson was Trevor Daley but built like a linebacker.

Does that count as proof that your hockey evaluations aren’t worth listening too?

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

If Malkin is a big Sullivan backer we can add "is a masochist" to the things we now know about him.

Well, he IS Russian.

Kyle Dubas is very much giving me "we're gonna look back on all this in 10 years and rub our collective temples" vibes for sure.

And only 15 more years until Sullivan is gone!

 

[Empoleon8771]

The reality with Sullivan is almost definitely the simplest explanation: the team, meaning players, GMs and owners (both past and present), absolutely loves Sullivan and views him as an elite coach. There isn't some conspiracy that Sullivan is only here because FSG loves him since he's from Boston. The team just has an absurdly high opinion on him, regardless of opinions that fans here have on that.

He's still riding the coattails of the 2016 and 2017 cup wins, which basically earned him lifetime immunity in the eyes of the Penguins organization. And it has even extended outside of the organization at this point, with seeing how Guerin named him the coach of the US Olympic team.

Emp you once told me that Jack Johnson was Trevor Daley but built like a linebacker.

Does that count as proof that you aren’t worth listening too?

Please share how that has literally any shred of relevance to this discussion.

Congrats, I have made shitty takes on HFBoards in the past. You caught me.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah I agree. I'm more than willing to let the core share the blame but I just have never actually seen any real evidence that they are these like... puppet masters behind the scenes. At worst they are simply too willing to be good soldiers. Which in this case is a bad thing but in all other instances is the exact kind of drama-free player you want.

That's what I'm trying to get at, fwiw. I'm not saying these guys are demanding Sullivan get a lifetime contract. I'm saying at some point, it'd have been nice for them to pipe up behind the scenes and call into question the coaching that's been a massive factor in this team's nose dive since 2018--but they're consummate professionals, Sid especially, who will only ever speak shiningly of their colleagues. I balked at JT Miller cuz I thought he'd be too abrasive and a distraction for the lockerroom, but funnily enough, this team could use a star who's a prick and wouldn't have a problem being like "Guys, what the f*** are we even doing here? Where's the accountability?"

But we know Sullivan would have JT Miller playing a 3rd line Blueger role and probably spouting cliches in post game interviews or something. No idea how he always does it. Even Karlsson seems to be a "*shrug* oh well" kinda guy anymore.

 

[SEALBound]

They just traded away Sid’s guy for peanuts.

I don’t think Crosby’s morale is that big of a factor in team decisions. He seems like he’s rather retire than ask for a trade and the end is getting close anyways soo..

I wouldn't call a 2027 4th for Rudwedel "peanuts"

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm saying at some point, it'd have been nice for them to pipe up behind the scenes and call into question the coaching that's been a massive factor in this team's nose dive since 2018.

HF's opinions of Sullivan may not be the same opinions that the players have, though. I generally haven't heard much criticism of Sullivan even from disgruntled former players. If there was that kind of feeling internally, you'd usually hear about it either from current players or past players.

The rudest comment I can recall regarding Sullivan from an ex-player is how his offense is scripted and limits creativity. That's about as critical as I can remember reading from a former player.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I wouldn't call a 2027 4th for Rudwedel "peanuts"

Without cap friendly, will the Penguins even remember they acquired that pick?

 

[Gurglesons]

I like how literal quotes from Letang saying "we love Mike Sullivan" somehow don't count as proof that the core loves Mike Sullivan, just because the article was written by Yohe.

Where are these quotes, exactly?

Chaos, loathing and the Big Three: How the Penguins unraveled

Ron Hextall and Brian Burke's Penguins were defined by chaotic trades, internal conflict and the near-disbanding of three franchise icons.

www.nytimes.com

SImilar to these quotes?

Hextall traded Teddy Blueger during the same trip. In the middle of a dinner with the players’ fathers, arranged by Crosby at Bern’s Steakhouse in Tampa, Blueger learned via social media that he had been dealt to Vegas. He and his dad abruptly left the restaurant. Crosby rushed to console his now former teammate and after a few minutes returned to the dinner. “That’s not how we do things in Pittsburgh,” he said. Crosby remained mostly quiet the rest of the night.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Where are these quotes, exactly?

Literally from the article you posted:

"About 18 months ago, Letang looked me in the eye and said, “Me, Sid, and Geno? We don’t want any other coach. Only him.”"