Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

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Rakell's bad season is being overblown.

He averaged a min less ice time per game and shot below his avg shooting %. He isn't being used right here (Surprise) and his numbers are suffering. He would easily bounce back to 20-25 goal player if he was deployed properly. He has value at his cap.
It did come out that Rakell wore a brace on his shoulder for most of the season. And as others have mentioned, similar players are about to get similar deals as free agents this year.

That said, you raise a good point that teams may be more desperate to try and address goaltending given the lack of quality goaltending in the league right now.
He might be able to provide value on his contract but I'm just skeptical any GM is gonna want to deal for him and take all of that on without unloading some cap to Dubas in return.

Maybe if we're lucky Dubas can snag a mid round pick just to get rid of Rakell's cap hit entirely, but I doubt it.
 
Here is how I look at the direction of the club. What Hextall and Burke did is irrelevant to this conversation. Dubas tried something last summer and the results just were not there. So, he is pivoting. Is this not what you want from a GM? It is what I want. Be pro-active, admit mistakes as soon as possible, and try a new course of action.

This new course of action should have been our course of action since at least 2020, but I may even argue the summer of 2018. But I digress.

There's no real pivot until this coaching staff walks in to work to find pink slips. Anything less are half measures at this point.

Firing Todd Reirden after the season was already over (and taking weeks to do it) was more sad and pathetic than actually encouraging.
 
He might be able to provide value on his contract but I'm just skeptical any GM is gonna want to deal for him and take all of that on without unloading some cap to Dubas in return.

Maybe if we're lucky Dubas can snag a mid round pick just to get rid of Rakell's cap hit entirely, but I doubt it.

Just wait until players like Toffoli, Zucker, Arvidsson and Marchessault are signed and watch his value go up. If Rakell was a UFA he would easily get 5 x 4 which is what he is owed.

Also I wouldn't trade Rakell for scraps without a plan.

There's no real pivot until this coaching staff walks in to work to find pink slips.

You will know what the situation with coaching is based on the Assistants and WBS coach hired.
 
Yeah, I mean, the team/Dubas constantly talks about how revered Sullivan is, and we saw embarrassing stuff re: Rust last TDL. Until one or more of those universal constants changes, I'll just continue operating on the assumption that your generic HFPens user cares infinitely more about changing things and trying to salvage the end of the era than the actual team does.
 
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You will know what the situation with coaching is based on the Assistants and WBS coach hired.

I'll save you the suspense... they will be good buddies and/or totally non-threatening to Mike Sullivan. And almost certainly be required to contribute further to the lovely echo chamber the team has worked so hard to build. Those are more or less the requirements for working with the Penguins the last however many years.
 
Rakell's term doesn't make him untradable, but it reduces the return. You either have to accept significantly less to clear his entire cap or you have to accept at least some salary back, probably someone with at least two years on their current deal.

Rakell will have more suitors than Graves because the perception is he was playing hurt last year and he's still a valuable piece, even if that contract isn't great. There are a lot more questions about Graves that will give teams pause.

I think it's 80% likely Smith is traded, 50% likely Rakell is traded, 40% likely Jarry is traded, and 5% likely Graves is traded.

I'd put Smith, Rakell, and Jarry sub 50% being traded until we start the season.

Based on Dubas' comments I bet he tries to get some young talent in UFA via missed QOs, etc and goes into this season with basically everyone that we have on our roster.

We probably sign a player like Arvidsson to a one year deal as our top nine option and role into next year with Eller as our 3C and some combination of Ponomarev, Poulin or Acciari as our 4C.

He hinted at POJ being extended so wouldn't be surprised to see us just role into next year with the identical D that we finishes this season with while adding Ryan Graves.
 
I don't think I've ever seen a coach so coddled and heaped with positive reinforcement without deserving it in the NHL tbh. And for about a decade by the time all is said and done. It's psychotic shit. Dude must be a hell of a charmer with interviews behind closed doors and small talk, cuz f*** me, the results certainly lately haven't been anything to applaud.
 
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I'll save you the suspense... they will be good buddies and/or totally non-threatening to Mike Sullivan. And almost certainly be required to contribute further to the lovely echo chamber the team has worked so hard to build. Those are more or less the requirements for working with the Penguins the last however many years.

OO I know but its fun to have hope until :nod:
 
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I don't think I've ever seen a coach so coddled and heaped with positive reinforcement without deserving it in the NHL tbh. And for about a decade by the time all is said and done. It's psychotic shit. Dude must be a hell of a charmer with interviews behind closed doors and small talk, cuz f*** me, the results certainly lately haven't been anything to applaud.

Sullivan is just waiting for the right moment to pounce. He is lulling the league into a slumber then BAM! It's well thought out plan that we can't comprehend.

2009 - Cup
2010 - 2015 = 6 years no cup
2016 - Cup
2017 - Cup
2018 - 2024 = 7 years no cup
2025 - Cup
2026 - Cup
2027 - Cup

It's all Math. I can't even make it up.
 
He might be able to provide value on his contract but I'm just skeptical any GM is gonna want to deal for him and take all of that on without unloading some cap to Dubas in return.

Maybe if we're lucky Dubas can snag a mid round pick just to get rid of Rakell's cap hit entirely, but I doubt it.

I tend to agree, but at the same time, any team signing someone like Bertuzzi, Teravainen or Domi in free agency is going to be adding a Rakell type of contract without unloading some cap. What was the way it was described, "we're getting out of our bad deals so we can give out more bad deals in free agency"?

Would it be that surprising if a team that was offering DeBrusk 5x5 but missed out would trade nothing for Rakell and his 5x5 remaining contract? I don't think so.
 
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I'm honestly not that surprised they want to move on from Rakell. He was a Hextall acquisition and signing that seemingly doesn't fit all that well with Malkin and won't be playing with Crosby. He was terrific for the Penguins in 2022-2023 and isn't really "overpaid" for what he brings, but they're better off finding a better fit with Malkin than just shoehorning Rakell there.

I think Jarry ends up getting moved this off-season. There are too many teams with shitty goalie situations that I really struggle to see no one wanting to trade for Jarry. Ottawa sticks out as a major example of a team who may want him.
I don't necessarily disagree about Rakell, but what who is someone who will "fit" with Malkin at this point in his career? If the idea is to swap out Rakell for another 40-50 point complimentary winger, it's not going to change much.

I feel like unless it's an actual upgrade (ie. swinging for the fences like a Marner or the like) and we just go another Rakell/Smith/Bunting-level talent, we'll be seeing the same issues with that line at 5on5.
 
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The only thing that makes me want to keep Rakell is that he had chemistry with Bunting, and he's going to be used with him again if he stays.
4.04 career PPP/P60 is pretty rough. He had his outlier year on the PP with us, but I don't expect him to bring that again, now that he's gotten comfortable and complacent here.
He averages 12 PPPs per 82 games. We got a problem on that left side.

Smith is more valuable imo. He PK's at a very high level. He doesn't rely on PP for production much at all, he has much stronger career 5v5 numbers, and he defends better at ES.
Odds are he improves if he stays, playing with Sid.

The thing with Raks is we didn't get a down year for him. It just feels that way because of his outlier year 1.
2023-24 was in line with his career average, which is 1.76 5v5 P/P60. Last year 1.75.
So a realistic expectation from him if he has similar deployment, is a similar result. And with a 5 mil price tag I don't think that's worth it.

You bring up Garland. I would much rather have him.
And yeah if Duchene can be convinced to come here, I would let Raks go and pay a little bit more to bring him for sure. He can play C as well, which adds value.
Malkin might suck next year, so...
Rakell had a long drought which, relative to career norms, was an outlier. Combine that with the PP being trash all year, there's reasonable explanations on his current numbers.

I don't think Smith's defense is any better or worse than Rakell. I really don't think any GM would be trading for either one under the guise that either of them is or is not some defensive stalwart.

For all intents and purposes, on paper last year, Garland and Rakell were basically the same player. Very little meaningful difference.

But here's what I'm coming back to - if you look at the average performance, salary, and expectation of a 2nd line top 6 RW, Rakell is right in the money. He's not over or underperforming relative to his cap hit and contract. We can argue that he had a down-ish year last year but most players, on average, return to their norms. If you want Rakell's performance, I believe it will cost you more in money and term in free agency compared to trading for him. So if he is what you want, there's a fair value that can be assigned to him that doesn't include a sweetener to move.

We just need to be realistic about what $5mil gets you on the market and what the expectations for a 2RW are league-wide.
Here is how I look at the direction of the club. What Hextall and Burke did is irrelevant to this conversation. Dubas tried something last summer and the results just were not there. So, he is pivoting. Is this not what you want from a GM? It is what I want. Be pro-active, admit mistakes as soon as possible, and try a new course of action.

This new course of action should have been our course of action since at least 2020, but I may even argue the summer of 2018. But I digress.
Agreed. I think last year, Dubas gave Mike Sullivan the lineup that Mike Sullivan wanted. Seeing it fail makes me think Dubas will not be doing that again this year. I think Sullivan will still have a say but I think Dubas will be more authoritarian on roster construction. I find it hard to believe Dubas and Spezza are sitting in his office saying "Man, Sullivan was totally spot on! We just needed to play a little better! That's all!"

Dubas also came out and said that as the GM you have to make hard decisions and that sometimes makes you the bad guy but so be it, that's the job. Makes me hopeful for Jarry, Rakell, Smith, etc trades. Now that said, none of those guys are a "trade at all costs" where you are willing to take a bad return just to get them off the roster. If he offers up Rust to the league and the best he can get is a 4th, then he would be 100% correct to keep Rust.

Things started to go wrong at the expansion draft. That off-season was a major blow. You lose Tanev and McCann, you sign McGinn, keep Carter, and then you lose ERod the next year. Then little by little we lost talent and the replacements were not always up to par. Combine that with Sullivan doing Sullivan things...we've just been a mess ever since.

Jake-Sid-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-McCann
Tanev-ERod-Kapanen
DOC-Poulin-Puustinen

Pettersson-Letang
Marino-Matheson
POJ-JSI

Jarry-Blomqvist

could be a realistic lineup heading into the season. Just so make self-inflicted wounds...
It's gonna be hilarious to me when the team finally cans him in like 2030 after yet another GM switch and the team goes on a heater and makes the playoffs for the first time in 8 years and everyone is all like "WhO wOuLdA ThUnK iT?!/?!1"
We're gonna be on here saying "Coach Sidney Crosby was the catalyst, for real".
 
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Yeah I mean if the idea is to move Raks out for some ACTUAL help (specifically for Malkin) then sure... of course. Raks isn't really all that great even when healthy. But they aren't going to do that. So just keep the guy... who cares? He's way down the list of issues and has already been indoctrinated to this team's brand of trash hockey anyway so he might as well stay.
 
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I think the best option by miles is Reinhart. Goal scorer, does a lot of work (-edit- by "work", I mean much of his goal scoring fwiw) on the power play. But he's got literally zero reason to go to this team. They can't/won't overpay to the degree they'd have to in order to lure him to a dead franchise when he stands to get an absurd contract.

Dunno how they get enough scoring punch to add legit scorers to Sid and Geno's lines, and I do think they both need scorers added. But, it doesn't matter, cuz they were never even gonna try to begin with, so.

Only a couple more seasons of Sid lording over the team's ability to turn the page and tear things down baybeeee.
 
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Jake-Sid-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-McCann
Tanev-ERod-Kapanen
DOC-Poulin-Puustinen

Pettersson-Letang
Marino-Matheson
POJ-JSI

Jarry-Blomqvist

could be a realistic lineup heading into the season. Just so make self-inflicted wounds...

That lineup looks awful.

Tanev and Kapanen are completely washed up at this point, and Zucker isn't that far behind them. Poulin hasn't shown to be a NHLer and that POJ-St. Ivany pair looks like a nightmare.

I don't necessarily disagree about Rakell, but what who is someone who will "fit" with Malkin at this point in his career? If the idea is to swap out Rakell for another 40-50 point complimentary winger, it's not going to change much.

I feel like unless it's an actual upgrade (ie. swinging for the fences like a Marner or the like) and we just go another Rakell/Smith/Bunting-level talent, we'll be seeing the same issues with that line at 5on5.

That line generally doesn't have issues at 5v5. It's about getting a guy that meshes well with Malkin and can read better off of him.

Bunting-Malkin-Rakell was a really good line last year, and I figure it would be at least a solid 2nd line next year. But getting a guy that fits better with Malkin can take that from "solid" to "good". It's not going to be a major change, but it would be an improvement.
 
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I'm not trying to be mean or contentious or whatever but why are we even still talking about Jason Zucker? He was largely mediocre to flat out bad here, didn't play well at all last year and it's looking more and more like Malkin half-drug him towards his only decent work in the last like six or seven years... to the tune of a whopping 48 points over a near-full season.

I regret a ton of what this team has done but certainly not letting Zucker walk. If anything I wish they would have never ponied up to get him in the first place.

EDIT: Killer suit game, though.
 
I'm not trying to be mean or contentious or whatever but why are we even still talking about Jason Zucker? He was largely mediocre to flat out bad here, didn't play well at all last year and it's looking more and more like Malkin half-drug him towards his only decent work in the last like six or seven years... to the tune of a whopping 48 points over a near-full season.

I regret a ton of what this team has done but certainly not letting Zucker walk. If anything I wish they would have never ponied up to get him in the first place.

EDIT: Killer suit game, though.

Because RON HEXTALL.

BUT QUIT BRINGING UP HEXTALL.

I don't necessarily disagree about Rakell, but what who is someone who will "fit" with Malkin at this point in his career? If the idea is to swap out Rakell for another 40-50 point complimentary winger, it's not going to change much.

I feel like unless it's an actual upgrade (ie. swinging for the fences like a Marner or the like) and we just go another Rakell/Smith/Bunting-level talent, we'll be seeing the same issues with that line at 5on5.

It'd be wild if we just played Rakell with Sid which you know.. works and has worked.
 
He hinted at POJ being extended so wouldn't be surprised to see us just role into next year with the identical D that we finishes this season with while adding Ryan Graves.

The Pens have no real #1 LD or anything resembling one. If their plan is to actually succeed in 2024-25, they better find one.

If Ryan Graves is our #1 LD we have a good chance of missing the playoffs (again).

If POJ is our #1 LD we have a good chance at a top-5 lottery seed.
 
I'm not trying to be mean or contentious or whatever but why are we even still talking about Jason Zucker? He was largely mediocre to flat out bad here, didn't play well at all last year and it's looking more and more like Malkin half-drug him towards his only decent work in the last like six or seven years... to the tune of a whopping 48 points over a near-full season.

I regret a ton of what this team has done but certainly not letting Zucker walk. If anything I wish they would have never ponied up to get him in the first place.

EDIT: Killer suit game, though.
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Getting 48 points without touching PP1 the entire season or being used in EN situations/PK, is very respectable, especially if 27 of those are goals.
He averaged 15:39 a night. Most EVG's on the team.
Actually his Goal/P60 rate was 14th in the league at 5v5.

He had a really strong season relative to his usage. There's no denying that. But that has no bearing on 2024-25. It was an outlier.
A realistic projection is he'll produce somewhere around this season's Rakell level, miss a sizable chunk of games and be awful defensively. I suppose there's the intangible of bringing life to the bench. This is a pretty dead team, spiritually.

As long as the term is short, I don't really care what ~5mil wingers we use the next 2 years, as this team continues to feign relevance. Those decisions are not gonna lead to a series win. And after 2+ years, we'll need a low number of long term commitments, to have as much free cap as possible to help expedite the rebuild/re-tool.
That's why I'm not particularly happy with Rak's contract. We need that cap for others things in 2026-27 and 2027-28.
 
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