Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Jag68Sid87]

Lars Eller the 4th liner who can PK and help bring along young players while playing fairly limited minutes is fine. Even at his somewhat meh contract.

Lars Eller the top powerplay guy (!!!) and sometime-OT specialist who racks up big minutes way more games than he should is not.

Yup, and since we did not make a coaching change there is only one option for this team at this time: trade Eller.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I say we compromise. Trade Eller, but on the way off the ice he fires a puck into the bench.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yup, and since we did not make a coaching change there is only one option for this team at this time: trade Eller.

Aw what... you don't want another season of watching a 4th liner play on the top powerplay unit and get tapped to start OT only to bumblef*** around with the puck for two straight minutes while Crosby and the rest sit on the bench?

 

[SEALBound]

I don't have an issue with Eller, but I think they need to construct the roster in a manner that makes having both Eller and Acciari redundant to the point that it's better to trade one off. I prefer that be Acciari, but I honestly do care. Either at their cap hit is fine for what they bring. I just want that to be on the fourth line as a true defensive-minded line.

As much as we joke about the PK, we still need guys able to do it. I just don't want us to load up against on PK talent when things like the PP actively cost us the playoffs. I'd rather then announce that Rakell and Rust are the new PK gurus and tell them to figure it out.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd like us to make the playoffs before we begin to worry about losing in them.

 

[66-30-33]

I'd like us to make the playoffs before we begin to worry about losing in them.

Ha! good one.

 

[SEALBound]

I'd like us to make the playoffs before we begin to worry about losing in them.

Yeah we're much better losing in them than making them.

 

[SomeDude]

I understand speculating on where a player is going to play based on their choice of dining area. For example, when I see a raccoon feasting in a dumpster I assume they play for the Flyers.

 

[chethejet]

Eller was not a issue last year. Acciari injured was. Both can be bottom 6 players that give the Pens solid play. Plus who is interested in taking them anyway. Teams need veteran players like these to grind through the season. But I do think the younger wingers and centers can provide enough added talent to have a nice blend here.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

You might need a subscription to read it. But an interesting WSJ article pointing out a reason why Florida teams have made so many Cup finals the past half decade.

State tax rates create a significant advantage, basically extra Cap space, for low or no tax states.

Winning the Stanley Cup Is More Taxing Than Ever https://www.wsj.com/articles/stanley-cup-low-tax-states-florida-panthers-7d15ecff

 

[HandshakeLine]

Playoff teams do not need veteran players to grind them to the postseason.

 

[Jacob]

Driedger might be a good cheap reclamation-type backup if Neds is too pricey or looking for more term or something.

 

[chethejet]

Playoff teams need depth and players who can help with injuries in a long season. Yes veteran players who know how to get through the season are generally the better PK and checking line guys. Yes stars make a difference but goaltending and depth are key.

 

[Gurglesons]

You might need a subscription to read it. But an interesting WSJ article pointing out a reason why Florida teams have made so many Cup finals the past half decade.

State tax rates create a significant advantage, basically extra Cap space, for low or no tax states.

Winning the Stanley Cup Is More Taxing Than Ever https://www.wsj.com/articles/stanley-cup-low-tax-states-florida-panthers-7d15ecff

Yeah that’s it. It’s not because they’ve made smart moves and drafted franchise players.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Yeah that’s it. It’s not because they’ve made smart moves and drafted franchise players.

That is a simplistic critique of the article, which was well written and researched.

As with almost everything there is no one reason for success, or failure.

And the point of the article is that the tax differences, and cost of living, between states, and countries for that matter, make a huge difference. I remember Quebec and it's triple taxes on everything. And just try and buy a home in Toronto.

It is significant enough to be an incentive to sign where there is lower cost.

The only thing a player will consider? Of course not. But it is a tangible advantage in a Cap world.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Don't most FLA teams in all other major sports suck? NHL is by far their most successful.

It might be a small factor. Making 7.2 vs 8 mil after tax might not matter all that much to a pro.

I guess it could be a huge conspiracy, but has any player openly cited this as a reason?

And that's just income. Theres plenty of taxes. I pay just as much in MO as i did in CA. It's just in other forms. Do i pay $360 to CA DMV? No, i paid $500 for "personal property tax" to register my car. Then again, gas is $3.50 instead of $5.50....but.... Guess who's roads are still shittier and weather sucks more?

 

[Al Smith]

You might need a subscription to read it. But an interesting WSJ article pointing out a reason why Florida teams have made so many Cup finals the past half decade.

State tax rates create a significant advantage, basically extra Cap space, for low or no tax states.

Winning the Stanley Cup Is More Taxing Than Ever https://www.wsj.com/articles/stanley-cup-low-tax-states-florida-panthers-7d15ecff

It's behind a paywall, but - off the top of my head - Texas (Stars), Florida (Cats, Bolts), Washington (Kraken), Tennessee (Preds), Nevada (VGK) should have an advantage in that department. Maybe so. But of course, Florida has other attractions, as does VGK, and so on. Plus, having lived in Washington, Texas, and Tennessee, the states make up for the lack of income tax by mostly collecting it through sales and other taxes, so it's not exactly a free lunch. I'd say in the end It's certainly a factor, but I kind of doubt it's dispositive, except in a few cases. But what do I know.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I guess the question is how many players took less than value deals to come to, or stay in, Florida.

I know that Tampa Bay had several in their prime seasons run.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I guess the question is how many players took less than value deals to come to, or stay in, Florida.

I know that Tampa Bay had several in their prime seasons run.

But then so have Sid and Geno.
... But yeah we may have never gotten a FA to show up less than another team offered

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I guess the question is how many players took less than value deals to come to, or stay in, Florida.

I know that Tampa Bay had several in their prime seasons run.

Forsling has already.
Barkov shaved a million off a year.

Montour and Reinhart could be next.

 

[Gurglesons]

That is a simplistic critique of the article, which was well written and researched.

As with almost everything there is no one reason for success, or failure.

And the point of the article is that the tax differences, and cost of living, between states, and countries for that matter, make a huge difference. I remember Quebec and it's triple taxes on everything. And just try and buy a home in Toronto.

It is significant enough to be an incentive to sign where there is lower cost.

The only thing a player will consider? Of course not. But it is a tangible advantage in a Cap world.

Then why have the two biggest UFAs in hockey in the last few years signed in New York City and Ontario?

 

[SEALBound]

Edmonton has the best player in the game and can take a team to the Cup finals. So that's one way to do it too.

Florida is really no different than what we did in 2016 - they have their franchise elite players at every important position - 1C, 1D, 1G. They have a cast of highly talented forwards who they got with a mix of trades, drafts, and signings. They are a good mix of skill and grit. They all have speed. Their defense is well balanced. They have a good coach. AND...they are all playing like they want the Cup. Not hard to see why they are there again.

But more importantly, they are getting really good value from several players, primarily - Bennett, Verhaeghe, and Luostarinen. Those should be $6mil deals. But they got mid-term, good hit deals and they have reach a point where they have outgrown the hit. That's what you need. You can't do what they're doing if you have a Reilly Smith playing like a $5mil player getting paid $5mil. It's what we're not getting with Smith, Rust, and Rakell. About the only person we were getting it from was Sid and Jake.

 

[Darren McCord]

That is a simplistic critique of the article, which was well written and researched.

As with almost everything there is no one reason for success, or failure.

And the point of the article is that the tax differences, and cost of living, between states, and countries for that matter, make a huge difference. I remember Quebec and it's triple taxes on everything. And just try and buy a home in Toronto.

It is significant enough to be an incentive to sign where there is lower cost.

The only thing a player will consider? Of course not. But it is a tangible advantage in a Cap world.

A player making 9.5 mill makes like 500k more in a tax free place. People act like its millions more.

People act like these players are taking multi million dollar pay cuts.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

A player making 9.5 mill makes like 500k more in a tax free place. People act like its millions more.

People act like these players are taking multi million dollar pay cuts.

Particularly when people seem to forget these guys have highly paid accountants who can find all these "loopholes" for them so they don't actually miss out on as much as people seem to think.

Remember talking to a buddy of mine who worked for a large accounting firm at the time and he personally handled a lot of the Leafs players back then (Sundin-era Leafs). He didn't go into the finer points, but essentially when I asked if those players actually lost 50% of their salary, he said no there are things like deferrals and other "tax loopholes" that can shave it down to around 30-35% (depending on their primary residence location).

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

New York Rangers seem to have no issues attracting talent, and they are one of the highest taxed states/cities in the country.

One should factor in any additional income players can make through local sponsorships/deals/promo/commercials/etc. Probably more in large markets.

Also one should look at the median. I don't think the 3% gap in tax between Florida and Pittsburgh is significant enough. A $5M Florida salary turns into a $5.15M salary in Pittsburgh.

I'm sure tax is a factor, but if it was significant, I'm sure they would have factored that into the cap with an adjustment of some sort.