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Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

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Empoleon8771 said:
The idea that Graves has always been bad and he was carried by his partners is just as wrong as the idea that he was an ultra physical DFD. There is absolutely nothing statistically that supports this idea.

Looking at his Colorado years (2018-2021):

-Graves with Makar: 649:30 TOI, 39-21 goal differential, +5.19 GF%Rel
-Graves without Makar: 1484:51 TOI, 75-52 goal differential, +0.78 GF%Rel

Looking at his New Jersey years, he actually had far worse results with Hamilton than without Hamilton:

-Graves with Hamilton: 533:04 TOI, 26-32 goal differential, -9.18 GF%Rel
-Graves without Hamilton: 2110:11 TOI, 106-93 goal differential, +2.56 GF%Rel

Graves' results were absolutely inflated by playing with Makar in Colorado, but this idea that he was always bad and carried by his partners is absolutely baseless statistically. In fact, pointing at Hamilton when the Graves-Hamilton pair was bad is just further proof that it's a completely made up claim.

Before coming to Pittsburgh, Graves was a #4 defenseman being used like a #4 defenseman. He was awful for the Penguins last year, but that doesn't magically re-write what he was before last year. And no, claiming "I actually watched him" doesn't invalidate the stats that say your claim is wrong.
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I actually watched him. This is wrong.
 
HandshakeLine said:
I wish they would have discussions about how to run a functional power play and how to not lose every OT ever in the regular season.
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The power play is a point the finger at everyone kinda deal:

Players (PP1): I don’t think they’ve ever really followed a coaches playbook (in the Sid/Geno/Tang era). It’s just instinct and because of their abilities we’ve never really been exposed until now

GM: The right mix. The Kunitz/Hornqvist type! Question: Did it improve with Bunting? If it did that might be the fix but we need that.

Coaching: If the players don’t listen AND it’s not working then split them up. Sure they’ll be pissed but results matter. I don’t get this one. We missed the playoffs because of the PP so they need to be held accountable and not catered too.
 
Gurglesons said:
I actually watched him. This is wrong.
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@Empoleon8771

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Empoleon8771 said:
The idea that Graves has always been bad and he was carried by his partners is just as wrong as the idea that he was an ultra physical DFD. There is absolutely nothing statistically that supports this idea.

Looking at his Colorado years (2018-2021):

-Graves with Makar: 649:30 TOI, 39-21 goal differential, +5.19 GF%Rel
-Graves without Makar: 1484:51 TOI, 75-52 goal differential, +0.78 GF%Rel

Looking at his New Jersey years, he actually had far worse results with Hamilton than without Hamilton:

-Graves with Hamilton: 533:04 TOI, 26-32 goal differential, -9.18 GF%Rel
-Graves without Hamilton: 2110:11 TOI, 106-93 goal differential, +2.56 GF%Rel

Graves' results were absolutely inflated by playing with Makar in Colorado, but this idea that he was always bad and carried by his partners is absolutely baseless statistically. In fact, pointing at Hamilton when the Graves-Hamilton pair was bad is just further proof that it's a completely made up claim.

Before coming to Pittsburgh, Graves was a #4 defenseman being used like a #4 defenseman. He was awful for the Penguins last year, but that doesn't magically re-write what he was before last year. And no, claiming "I actually watched him" doesn't invalidate the stats that say your claim is wrong.
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I think that's the problem. Graves is probably more like a #5 on an "average" team, but can be the #4 as long as he's paired with a player the caliber of Cale Makar.

When I think of a true, legitimate #4D I think of someone who can perform at that level even if they're paired with a #3D or a #2D. They don't need to be paired with a top 2 defenseman in hockey to play at a #4D level.
 
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DesertedPenguin said:
Dejan wrote today that there are internal conversations about moving Malkin to wing. We'll see if it finally materializes, but something to watch.
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Oh sweet, is Brandon Sutter or Mike Comrie available?

They better be bringing in a hell of a 2C to make that worth while.

Such a weird thing to toy with. Sullivan's system relies heavily on wing speed. Malkin isn't exactly lightning-fast. Unless you plan on completely revamping your system and making significant changes (not exactly Sullivan's strong suit), this has "ineffective" or "disaster" written all over it.
 
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Sidney the Kidney said:
I think that's the problem. Graves is probably more like a #5 on an "average" team, but can be the #4 as long as he's paired with a player the caliber of Cale Makar.

When I think of a true, legitimate #4D I think of someone who can perform at that level even if they're paired with a #3D or a #2D. They don't need to be paired with a top 2 defenseman in hockey to play at a #4D level.
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Graves did exactly that when he was paired with Marino, who was his most common D partner in New Jersey.

Marino and Graves played 840:52 together in New Jersey, putting up a 38-27 goal differential and a +2.27 GF%Rel.
 
Sidney the Kidney said:
I think that's the problem. Graves is probably more like a #5 on an "average" team, but can be the #4 as long as he's paired with a player the caliber of Cale Makar.

When I think of a true, legitimate #4D I think of someone who can perform at that level even if they're paired with a #3D or a #2D. They don't need to be paired with a top 2 defenseman in hockey to play at a #4D level.
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Can be the # 4 on a bad team*
 
SEALBound said:
You may as well start penciling Blomqvist in as backup. I can't imagine they go out of their way to spend $2.25mil on a backup with Blomy in WBS. If they wanted, they could just resign Nedeljkovich.
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I don't think there is a chance in hell Blomqvist is the back up.

Lankinen is a better goaltender than Ned IMO. Would be an absolute steal if we could get him.
 
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We don’t have the assets and they’d prefer to send him out west but I’d at least be calling about Necas. And even Kotkaniemi.
 
Darren McCord said:
that's such a grossly overpaid 4th line. id rather not pay that money for trenin for 3 years. It would be Acciari 2.0 with sullivan. Give me someone better than Arvidsson for the top 6 too.
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Trenin is a whole different ball game than Acciari.

RV if healthy will probably be the best bargain bang for your buck signed this summer.

Also, love the idea of our PP having Bunting and RV.
 
Gurglesons said:
Trenin is a whole different ball game than Acciari.

RV if healthy will probably be the best bargain bang for your buck signed this summer.

Also, love the idea of our PP having Bunting and RV.
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RV ok but no thanks to trenin. His icetime got cut going from NSH to Col and he dropped off. Same thing would happen with Sullivan. He'd be another McGinn.

Give Pono, Poulin or Koivunen a chance to make the team. Dont flood it with more late 20's early 30 guys ready to drop off.
 
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Trenin is an elite forechecker. He's also 6'2".

Darren McCord said:
RV ok but no thanks to trenin. His icetime got cut going from NSH to Col and he dropped off. Same thing would happen with Sullivan. He'd be another McGinn
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Didn't drop off at all. Colorado's 4th line was a buzzsaw. Gotta look past the scoring stats and realize what he brings to the bottom six. He's a Brandon Tanev type with size.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
This lineup looks like ass.
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I guess so. Lots of players with 40-50 pt potential.

I'm more in the mindset of having a balanced roster than targeting a big fish personally.

Also, the concept is what we realistically can / will do this summer. I think Dubas will be trying to do something like that despite whether or not I agree with it. Utilizing the few assets we have to acquire mid younger talent.
 
Gurglesons said:
View attachment 875294

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Trenin is an elite forechecker. He's also 6'2".



Didn't drop off at all. Colorado's 4th line was a buzzsaw. Gotta look past the scoring stats and realize what he brings to the bottom six. He's a Brandon Tanev type with size.
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Your looking at Mike Sullivan Acciari. He was a better player last year. Trenin has a better card sure but he will 100% have a massive drop off here. Also this team can't score. You need more players who can score as well. Trenin had 3 goals in 26 games for the Avs. He had 17 pts all year. You are out of your mind if you give him 3 x 3 for 17 pts.

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Darren McCord said:
Your looking at Mike Sullivan Acciari. He was a better player last year. Trenin has a better card sure but he will 100% have a massive drop off here. Also this team can't score. You need more players who can score as well. Trenin had 3 goals in 26 games for the Avs. He had 17 pts all year. You are out of your mind if you give him 3 x 3 for 17 pts.

View attachment 875302
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Not sure I see the difference between the two charts you posted lol.

Trenin is a completely different ballgame as indicated above.

Trenin is an ideal bottom six player for what this team needs. Ideally we'd be moving Acciari or Eller if we bring him in.
 
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