Line Combos: Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

[Gurglesons]

Poehling played in NHL games because he played for a crap organization.

Also, why are we acting like 22 points in 85 games is "effective things"?



No it's not, it's a perfectly appropriate comparison. Both Friedman and Caggiula are pure depth guys, while Poehling and POJ are fringe NHLers who may have upside.

Poehling had 17 points including 9 goals in 50+ games last year.

POJ looks like Gumby on skates and can't follow a play.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Poehling had 17 points including 9 goals in 50+ games last year.

POJ looks like Gumby on skates and can't follow a play.

And he would have approximately 7 points in 20 games had he played for the Penguins, because he never would have gotten the opportunity to play in Pittsburgh that he got in Montreal.

Friedman is what he is, he's a soon to be 27 year old #7 defenseman that I'm highly skeptical will ever be an acceptable regular. He might be marginally better than POJ right now, but the risk of losing POJ to waivers isn't worth the marginal upgrade you'd get from keeping Friedman over POJ. POJ has a moderate upside that would definitely be better than Friedman.

Again, it's a nonsensical solution fueled purely by your really odd agenda against POJ. The only way waiving POJ makes any sense is if you could get him through waivers.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Poehling played in NHL games because he played for a crap organization.

Also, why are we acting like 22 points in 85 games is "effective things"?



No it's not, it's a perfectly appropriate comparison. Both Friedman and Caggiula are pure depth guys with very likely no room to grow, while Poehling and POJ are fringe NHLers who may have upside.

26 year old Dmen absolutely have room to grow, especially when they are fairly new to a system.

Dman usually take much longer to develop and due to Freidmans situation and only being 3 years into a system he could absolutely take another step.

Just look at what familiarity in a system did with Matheson.

Poehling is a young former 1st round pick so I am not getting the Caggiula comparasion

 

[Empoleon8771]

26 year old Dmen absolutely have room to grow, especially when they are fairly new to a system.

Dman usually take much longer to develop and due to Freidmans situation and only being 3 years into a system he could absolutely take another step.

Just look at what familiarity in a system did with Matheson.

Poehling is a young former 1st round pick so I am not getting the Caggiula comparasion

The comparison is Poehling to POJ and Caggiula to Friedman.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Dumo has been shot for like 2yrs now. He can't keep up and it really shows.

It shouldn't be a surprise though. Look around the league, you can count the number of 32 year old and up strictly defensive D still getting 20+ minutes on one hand.

 

[Peat]

I've been pushing the same narrative on POJ since November 2021.

There's plenty of posts of yours from this calendar year talking of him as a potential 2nd pairing guy, someone we can plug in if we move Pettersson, NHL ready, and so on. And yeah, some of them doubting him too. But you've not been consistently pushing the same narrative.

POJ being a guy who can be a variation of Pettersson - good at 5v5, not much use at special teams - is well within his ceiling.

I don't want to dump on Friedman either, who I think can be an interesting Stecher/Reilly bottom pairing PMD type with a little sandpaper and bonus both sides ability, but I don't think POJ is just chopped liver either.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

And for the record I have no agenda against POJ, Hell if he was any type of player most expected him to be please be it b/c we could use him now.

I am in line with players that could make an impact and win now. I feel Freidman has done well here adds some element to our backend that we lack and can play both sides on the cheap. Thats all

I also feel with more familiarity in the system he still has another level

The comparison is Poehling to POJ and Caggiula to Friedman.

ok.....and if it was up to me at this point I would probably go Poehling/Friedman

I could see arguments either way but I dont think someone is vastly wrong if they think differently or have an agenda against POJ

 

[Gurglesons]

There's plenty of posts of yours from this calendar year talking of him as a potential 2nd pairing guy, someone we can plug in if we move Pettersson, NHL ready, and so on. And yeah, some of them doubting him too. But you've not been consistently pushing the same narrative.

POJ being a guy who can be a variation of Pettersson - good at 5v5, not much use at special teams - is well within his ceiling.

I don't want to dump on Friedman either, who I think can be an interesting Stecher/Reilly bottom pairing PMD type with a little sandpaper and bonus both sides ability, but I don't think POJ is just chopped liver either.

That take on Pettersson was more a comment on cap situations versus actual potential from POJ.

Similar to how I feel with Blueger vs Poehling, although with the injuries that is obviously a moot point and we just should keep Teddy.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You guys go too hard.

I like both for different reasons and wouldn't want to lose either if I could help it. Friedman because he adds a different element to the defense, can play both sides and it seems like team responds to him being in the lineup. POJ because despite very uneven NHL results he's still quite young and has put in quality work at the AHL level.

 

[Gurglesons]

And he would have approximately 7 points in 20 games had he played for the Penguins, because he never would have gotten the opportunity to play in Pittsburgh that he got in Montreal.

Friedman is what he is, he's a soon to be 27 year old #7 defenseman that I'm highly skeptical will ever be an acceptable regular. He might be marginally better than POJ right now, but the risk of losing POJ to waivers isn't worth the marginal upgrade you'd get from keeping Friedman over POJ. POJ has a moderate upside that would definitely be better than Friedman.

Again, it's a nonsensical solution fueled purely by your really odd agenda against POJ. The only way waiving POJ makes any sense is if you could get him through waivers.

I have no odd agenda against POJ. I've watched him in the AHL and NHL over the past few years. I was very excited by what he brought in his first call-up like most of us, but he fell apart with in a few games and has never really shown any flashes in the A showing me he is anything more than a # 7 D who mainly has that spot because of his size and skating.

Mark Friedman has been fantastic every time he plays in the NHL.

 

[Empoleon8771]

ok.....and if it was up to me at this point I would probably go Poehling/Friedman

I could see arguments either way but I dont think someone is vastly wrong if they think differently or have an agenda against POJ

The problem here isn't who you'd prefer with POJ vs Friedman, it's that POJ very likely gets claimed off waivers while I doubt Friedman would.

If POJ would clear waivers, you obviously waive him and let him play in the AHL. I just don't think he would. The comparison is "losing POJ and having Friedman as the #8" vs "having Friedman in the AHL and having POJ as the #8".

 

[Gurglesons]

The problem here isn't who you'd prefer with POJ vs Friedman, it's that POJ very likely gets claimed off waivers while I doubt Friedman would.

If POJ would clear waivers, you obviously waive him and let him play in the AHL. I just don't think he would. The comparison is "losing POJ and having Friedman as the #8" vs "having Friedman in the AHL and having POJ as the #8".

Why exactly is POJ getting claimed over Friedman?

POJ has shown nothing in NHL minutes while Friedman just showed he can hold down a 3rd pairing in the playoffs for a solid team and produce while doing it.

Last time Friedman got waived he also got claimed.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why exactly is POJ getting claimed over Friedman?

POJ has shown nothing in NHL minutes while Friedman just showed he can hold down a 3rd pairing in the playoffs for a solid team and produce while doing it.

Because POJ is a 23 year old former 1st round pick that has played huge minutes in the AHL.

Why wouldn't he get claimed? It's a free lottery ticket for any rebuilding team. It's no different than when guys like Juolevi, Cholowski, Clague and Mete got claimed off waivers.

Last time Friedman got waived he also got claimed.

Yeah, he was claimed by the Penguins because Hextall was his former GM. No one else claimed him.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

The problem here isn't who you'd prefer with POJ vs Friedman, it's that POJ very likely gets claimed off waivers while I doubt Friedman would.

If POJ would clear waivers, you obviously waive him and let him play in the AHL. I just don't think he would. The comparison is "losing POJ and having Friedman as the #8" vs "having Friedman in the AHL and having POJ as the #8".

I understand and I guess I am saying I wouldn't be overly bent if the Pens held Friedman and lost POJ to waivers.

We've seen plenty times players that were expected to be scooped off of waivers get no interest. Sure POJ being younger may spark some interest.

I think Friedman may as well. The boards have definitely over and underrated many players.

 

[Peat]

I don't think Friedman has ever played above our bottom pairing.

Everytime POJ gets called up he gets top 4 5v5 minutes and deployments, including some time on top pairing.

I can't help but think that might have something to do with how each has looked, and tbh I'm excited by what POJ has been able to do with those deployments at his age and experience level.

 

[Pens1566]

It shouldn't be a surprise though. Look around the league, you can count the number of 32 year old and up strictly defensive D still getting 20+ minutes on one hand.

Oh, I'm not surprised. I've thought we should have moved him for at least a year and a half now.

 

[dogthateats]

The real waiver fodder is the friends we made along the way

 

[DearDiary]

His upside is a #4 defenseman who skates well. Friedman isn't even a bottom pair D, he's a purely extra defenseman.

Would you waive Poehling to keep Caggiula up on the NHL team?

What is this based off of? What reason is there to think that POJ has higher upside than Friedman who is also continually improving?

Friedman brings a lot more to the table and can be a solid bottom 6 Dman. POJ has yet to show he's even capable of that

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't really think POJ is gonna be anything at the NHL level, but there's potential. I don't think he'll reach it, but there's something there. Friedman's just a little shithead and that entertainment value is something I as a fan appreciate, but probably doesn't do anything to make up for his lack of overall ability.

But we're talking about bottom pairing blueliners. Not as insignificant as 4th liners, but still pretty f***ing worthless overall.

 

[dogthateats]

I think POJ needs consistent NHL playing time before I can evaluate him fairly. I am one of the beat talent evaluators if you guys have any questions

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I think POJ needs consistent NHL playing time before I can evaluate him fairly. I am one of the beat talent evaluators if you guys have any questions

So you wear these when you evaluate talent.......how cool

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Health was fun while it lasted. Not that it matters much if the regulars play like last night mind you.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Health was fun while it lasted. Not that it matters much if the regulars play like last night mind you.

I am pretty certain last night is a great indicator of how our regulars will play most of the season

 

[dogthateats]

So you wear these when you evaluate talent.......how cool

Reported

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Has anyone come stomping in to remind everyone that's it's only the preseason yet today?

I feel like maybe we haven't hit our quota.