Line Combos: Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

[Gurglesons]

Yeah my highest expectations of Smith is Goligoski. Largely unnoticed but once in a while chips in with some 5-on-5 offense. Maybe 2nd unit PP QB, 1st when Letang is hurt.

That'd be a nice addition. Especially given how Goligoski rounded out his game to be a top pairing D for a few years.

So Archibald made the team over Caggiula? Wtf…are they blind?

I'm not sure Archibald made it, I imagine him and a defenseman hit waivers to get us to 22.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Archibald will be given every opportunity to make the team. I'm pretty sure of that.

 

[Peat]

Am I the only one who's thought that the decline with Dumo the last couple of years has had little to do with skating and a lot to do with inexplicable errors in seeing the ice and with the puck?

 

[Gurglesons]

Archibald will be given every opportunity to make the team. I'm pretty sure of that.

I'm not. Sullivan hated him. I don't see any reason why that would change and judging by their usage of Poehling and Z, I don't think it has.

Am I the only one who's thought that the decline with Dumo the last couple of years has had little to do with skating and a lot to do with inexplicable errors in seeing the ice and with the puck?

Yes. His skating has taken a massive hit or the league has just sped up and he can't handle it.

I think he was somewhat overrated due to Letang, but in 2017 him and Hainsey were a top pairing.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not. Sullivan hated him. I don't see any reason why that would change and judging by their usage of Poehling and Z, I don't think it has.

It's not even really me being mad about it or anything like that. I just figure there has to be a reason they brought him in, he has plenty of NHL games under his belt and Sullivan won't want to trample on too many toes. I'm not saying he's a lock I'm just saying he's going to be given more consideration than a young player who is playing like butt.

I don't really think it was Sullivan's idea FWIW.

 

[Peat]

Yes. His skating has taken a massive hit or the league has just sped up and he can't handle it.

I think he was somewhat overrated due to Letang, but in 2017 him and Hainsey were a top pairing.

Most of the big mistakes I've seen from him were of those kind not skating though.

I also think his results are utterly inexplicable for a can't handle it guy, and therefore he probably can, but that's a different argument.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Most of the big mistakes I've seen from him were of those kind not skating though.

I also think his results are utterly inexplicable for a can't handle it guy, and therefore he probably can, but that's a different argument.

Yeah, I think he's just aging out of his role, which is why I'm wary about people thinking you can just plug him in on a different pairing and he'll be fine.

I don't really think it was Sullivan's idea FWIW.

I really don't know who's idea Archibald was, but it wasn't good and I don't want to blame Sully for it.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, I think he's just aging out of his role, which is why I'm wary about people thinking you can just plug him in on a different pairing and he'll be fine.

Agreed. Maybe things would go better against softer opposition, but given that Dumoulin isn't a guy who'll exploit softer opposition and we don't appear short on guys who can both exploit them and be secure, what's the point? Either Dumo can handle top oppo and is there to do that for the team, or he's not got much of a purpose.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Agreed. Maybe things would go better against softer opposition, but given that Dumoulin isn't a guy who'll exploit softer opposition and we don't appear short on guys who can both exploit them and be secure, what's the point? Either Dumo can handle top oppo and is there to do that for the team, or he's not got much of a purpose.

Right! And you can use the cap and the space to get another top 4 guy-- doesn't even have to be a bona fide #2 or anything, just another, younger, dependable blueliner who can munch minutes and babysit.

The second Dumo needs to be sheltered or have his minutes minded he should be somewhere else.

 

[Gurglesons]

Most of the big mistakes I've seen from him were of those kind not skating though.

I also think his results are utterly inexplicable for a can't handle it guy, and therefore he probably can, but that's a different argument.

I think he's a step slower and that's messing up his reactions personally.

I don't really see the point of moving him this season unless it's in a deal for a guy like Chycrun with assets added.

I agree I don't see a ton of players to like on UFA outside of Soucy next year and even then he can't play Dumo minutes and probably asks for the same.

Maybe Kylington? But he's not a defensive guy.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think he's a step slower and that's messing up his reactions personally.

I don't really see the point of moving him this season unless it's in a deal for a guy like Chycrun with assets added.

I mean, his value isn't great. On the other hand, I don't think we'd be losing a lot by trading him for another 3/4 guy, not even Chychrun level.

Dumo did fine yeoman work here, but it's not like we're talking about trading prime Larry Murphy here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Call me crazy but I would be slightly upset if Friedman gets the chop. I get it but I think he's better than some of the dmen that would stick over him

The only defenseman he might be better than is POJ, and they're not going to waive POJ to keep Friedman. Or they'd be at least really dumb to do that.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, his value isn't great. On the other hand, I don't think we'd be losing a lot by trading him for another 3/4 guy, not even Chychrun level.

Dumo did fine yeoman work here, but it's not like we're talking about trading prime Larry Murphy here.

I think there is something to be said about having some consistency on the backend. Moving him out later in the season is fine. But too many new names is a way to get burned.

The only defenseman he might be better than is POJ, and they're not going to waive POJ to keep Friedman. Or they'd be at least really dumb to do that.

Why? Friedman has shown way more in his NHL minutes and is only 26?

 

[Peat]

Right! And you can use the cap and the space to get another top 4 guy-- doesn't even have to be a bona fide #2 or anything, just another, younger, dependable blueliner who can munch minutes and babysit.

The second Dumo needs to be sheltered or have his minutes minded he should be somewhere else.

Alas there we reach the tricky part. There's just not many of those guys out there. My pipedream is somehow Sanheim reaches UFA and listens to his old GM's pitch, but other than that.... close your eyes and pray, imo.

I think he's a step slower and that's messing up his reactions personally.

I don't really see the point of moving him this season unless it's in a deal for a guy like Chycrun with assets added.

Could be that. Guess we'll see this season.

And agreed I see no point of moving him. I don't think he's got the value to get his replacement.

I really wish we'd moved for Jacob Middleton last year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why? Friedman has shown way more in his NHL minutes and is only 26?

Because POJ has upside and Friedman is what he is.

Advocating for keeping Friedman over POJ is just nonsense. That's the same as advocating for waiving Poehling so you can keep Caggiula up.

 

[Gurglesons]

Alas there we reach the tricky part. There's just not many of those guys out there. My pipedream is somehow Sanheim reaches UFA and listens to his old GM's pitch, but other than that.... close your eyes and pray, imo.



Could be that. Guess we'll see this season.

And agreed I see no point of moving him. I don't think he's got the value to get his replacement.

I really wish we'd moved for Jacob Middleton last year.

Yeah that would've been a solid add.

Maybe Hague still falls free.

Because POJ has upside and Friedman is what he is.

Advocating for keeping Friedman over POJ is just nonsense.

What upside does POJ have realistically? Stuff Yohe says on the Athletic?

Friedman adds an element to the blue line and can play LD and RD given the first injury. I'd much rather keep him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What upside does POJ have realistically? Stuff Yohe says on the Athletic?

A 23 year old former 1st rounder who was playing huge minutes in the AHL does not have upside?

Again, advocating for keeping Friedman over POJ is just nonsense and is more stupid shit you've been pushing with POJ recently.

 

[Gurglesons]

A 23 year old former 1st rounder who was playing huge minutes in the AHL does not have upside?

Again, advocating for keeping Friedman over POJ is just nonsense and is more stupid shit you've been pushing with POJ recently.

What is his upside? A bottom pairing D who can skate well?

So what Friedman already is and signed cheap for?

What stupid shit am I pushing with POJ? Multiple pundits have said he looked lost in the preseason game. He isn't an NHL caliber D at this point in time. He had a couple nice games a few years ago and has been a disappointment since.

I've been pushing the same narrative on POJ since November 2021.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What is his upside? A bottom pairing D who can skate well?

So what Friedman already is and signed cheap for?

His upside is a #4 defenseman who skates well. Friedman isn't even a bottom pair D, he's a purely extra defenseman.

Would you waive Poehling to keep Caggiula up on the NHL team?

 

[Gurglesons]

His upside is a #4 defenseman who skates well. Friedman isn't even a bottom pair D, he's a purely extra defenseman.

Would you waive Poehling to keep Caggiula up on the NHL team?

No because Poehling has actually played NHL games and done effective things in them for more than 3 games.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Because POJ has upside and Friedman is what he is.

Advocating for keeping Friedman over POJ is just nonsense. That's the same as advocating for waiving Poehling so you can keep Caggiula up.

I dont agree with this at all, I wouldn't say Friedman is what he is and if you think I would argue that POJ is what he is at this point. I dont think either is the case.

The Caggiula/Poehling comparison is just odd

 

[Empoleon8771]

No because Poehling has actually played NHL games and done effective things in them for more than 3 games.

Poehling played in NHL games because he played for a crap organization.

Also, why are we acting like 22 points in 85 games is "effective things"?

I dont agree with this at all, I wouldn't say Friedman is what he is and if you think I would argue that POJ is what he is at this point. I dont think either is the case.

The Caggiula/Poehling comparison is just odd

No it's not, it's a perfectly appropriate comparison. Both Friedman and Caggiula are pure depth guys with very likely no room to grow, while Poehling and POJ are fringe NHLers who may have upside.

 

[Andy99]

Archibald will be given every opportunity to make the team. I'm pretty sure of that.

I literally think they promised Archi a spot on the team if he signed with them and told Caggiula that he would start in Wilkes…that’s the only explanation,no matter how stupid, that can explain this lol

 

[Gurglesons]

I dont agree with this at all, I wouldn't say Friedman is what he is and if you think I would argue that POJ is what he is at this point. I dont think either is the case.

The Caggiula/Poehling comparison is just odd

POJ truthers are really on one lately...

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the real whipping boys are the stupid shit we've pushed along the way, guys.

Now hug it out.