Line Combos: Pens 2022-2023 Training Camp thread: Its happenings

[3ladesof5teel]

Yeah it's unusual to see the loaded squad in the 3rd game.

Heinen getting cut would be braindead.

I would highly doubt Heinen would get the cut but it wouldn't be upset about it.

Sure he brought some secondary scoring last year but if it forces him out of our top 6 count me in. He's as soft and vanilla a player we have. If he does anything remotely close to last year color me shocked.

I like him for depth but just a JAG player to watch

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I don't particularly disagree with you but it is pretty plausible this is what's happening.

... also, just to be devil's advocate, I'd hope the org isn't in the habit of changing their minds on players based on one pre-season game and a few days of camp. Even when I'd like them to do so.

Pretty sure it was obvious that we had an influx of offense that we didn't expect to have.
Poehling came in the trade - (not a bad scoop)
Heinen came on the cheap.
The organization wanted some toughness so they grabbed both Cags and Archi on the cheap

We have quite a few bottom 6 tweeners that will be fighting for spots. Z, DOC, Pus etc.

Sure it would be great if someone there steps up in a big way

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I would highly doubt Heinen would get the cut but it wouldn't be upset about it.

Sure he brought some secondary scoring last year but if it forces him out of our top 6 count me in. He's as soft and vanilla a player we have. If he does anything remotely close to last year color me shocked.

I like him for depth but just a JAG player to watch

I am more satisfied/entertained by goals and wins than I am by hits.
That's why I'd prefer him being one of the 12. But we'll see if Sullivan prefers to go with the 80's approach.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I am more satisfied/entertained by goals and wins than I am by hits.
That's why I'd prefer him being one of the 12. But we'll see if Sullivan prefers to go with the 80's approach.

I never said anything about not winning or scoring goals, I believe last year for him was an outlier and he is more in the mold of a player like Dom Kahun a JAG

Sure some skilled toughness would do wonders for this team but that mix isn't exactly a largely available player in the NHL.

Dont think you'll be too "entertained" with Heinen this season, hope I am wrong

 

[Pens x]

I never said anything about not winning or scoring goals, I believe last year for him was an outlier and he is more in the mold of a player like Dom Kahun a JAG

Sure some skilled toughness would do wonders for this team but that mix isn't exactly a largely available player in the NHL.

Dont think you'll be too "entertained" with Heinen this season, hope I am wrong

Something has to give for Kap’s monster upcoming season, right?

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Handing a guy 900k one a one way deal as a prove it deal is unlikely, and concerning in itself if that's what happened.

My personal guess was that the team did not anticipate having this many forwards at this point, and that it did not anticipate what Caggiula is doing, and Archibald has made it easy for him to be a sacrificial lamb.

It could be that, or maybe they just really wanted Archibald on WBS and figured the one-way deal (plus a little extra cash) would help him slide through waivers more easily.

It would be kinda hilarious if the Penguins ended up waiving all of Archibald, Caggiula and Poehling and just had O'Connor on the 4th line and Zohorna as the extra, after all of the complaining I was doing about them signing these guys when you already had O'Connor and Zohorna.

WBS needs veteran forwards, too.

I never said anything about not winning or scoring goals, I believe last year for him was an outlier and he is more in the mold of a player like Dom Kahun a JAG

Sure some skilled toughness would do wonders for this team but that mix isn't exactly a largely available player in the NHL.

Dont think you'll be too "entertained" with Heinen this season, hope I am wrong

Wasn't everyone infuriated when Kahun was traded away?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I believe last year for him was an outlier and he is more in the mold of a player like Dom Kahun a JAG

Sure some skilled toughness would do wonders for this team but that mix isn't exactly a largely available player in the NHL.

If last season was such an outlier then why did he score 47 points in his rookie year?
Heinen averages 36 points per 82 played in the NHL to this point. Since he had 33 in 76 games last year, that puts him almost dead on his norm.

People here have some strange misconceptions about him as a player, trying to make him sound like a staple 4th liner or 13F.
At this point he's right there with Kap and Zucker. In fact he was better than both of them last year, and may be again.

And don't be so sure he'll fail to produce in the top 6 again. That was a career low shooting % with Malkin. Likely unsustainable.

Wasn't everyone infuriated when Kahun was traded away?

Kahun had 27 points in 50 games here, with almost no PP time. But since he was a small, skilled Euro he's a disposable "JAG".

 

[3ladesof5teel]

If last season was such an outlier then why did he score 47 points in his rookie year?
Heinen averages 36 points per 82 played in the NHL to this point. Since he had 33 in 76 games last year, that puts him almost dead on his norm.

People here have some strange misconceptions about him as a player, trying to make him sound like a staple 4th liner or 13F.
At this point he's right there with Kap and Zucker. In fact he was better than both of them last year, and may be again.

And don't be so sure he'll fail to produce in the top 6 again. That was a career low shooting % with Malkin. Likely unsustainable.


Kahun had 27 points in 50 games here, with almost no PP time. But since he was a small, skilled Euro he's a disposable "JAG".

Kahun also isn't in the NHL anymore after multiple chances with multiple teams so yes he is a JAG.

No misconception on Heinen, hes soft, floats, weak on the wall and on the ice but has a nice shot. I dont want him in our top 6. I dont believe its a recipe to win

It could be that, or maybe they just really wanted Archibald on WBS and figured the one-way deal (plus a little extra cash) would help him slide through waivers more easily.

WBS needs veteran forwards, too.

Wasn't everyone infuriated when Kahun was traded away?

People were livid when he was traded away. They talked about it for years afterwards.

Had the opportunity to play with some of the best players in the NHL during his time and he played his way right out of the NHL so it pretty much goes to show how correct many are about these type of players.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Something has to give for Kap’s monster upcoming season, right?

I would rather force feed KAP or Zucker in the top 6 role over Heinen.

Their skillset has a much higher ceiling than Heinen. Dont get me wrong, great depth guy but keep him away from the top 6

 

[Jobeycool]

Kapanen 5000 shots = zero goals all you need to know about .. The guy is flying around everywhere all over the ice..

 

[Flying Dego]

I would rather force feed KAP or Zucker in the top 6 role over Heinen.

Their skillset has a much higher ceiling than Heinen. Dont get me wrong, great depth guy but keep him away from the top 6

I'm not far off of your thought process. I like Heinen as a scoring bottom 6 wing more than in our top 6.

Zucker healthy is 100% our best out of the bunch for a top 6 role. At least he's suspect #1 to try with G and Rust.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

People were livid when he was traded away. They talked about it for years afterwards.

Had the opportunity to play with some of the best players in the NHL during his time and he played his way right out of the NHL so it pretty much goes to show how correct many are about these type of players.

Certainly. And there were reasons at the time of the trade to believe that Kahun wouldn't last.
What's your basis for not liking Heinen, other than your belief about him not having a 'top 6 skill set'?

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Certainly. And there were reasons at the time of the trade to believe that Kahun wouldn't last.
What's your basis for not liking Heinen, other than your belief about him not having a 'top 6 skill set'?

Its not that I don't like him, I already said I like him as a depth guy.

I just dont think he's a guy you want in the top 6 of your team if you are contending for a cup. Sure if you are building a team and need some depth guys put him there but we aren't, we have some generational players coming to the end of their careers that want to win. My idea of top 6 guys probably differ from some here but his game doesn't translate to a top 6 guy in my opinion. IMO we are a top 6 guy short of being where we need to be. Kap or Zucker making that move would put us in a much better position

For the record I think he is better than Kahun was but not by much. I was more using the comparison that I see people enamored with him the same way they were with Kahun, and look where he is now. I wouldn't mind seeing his spot going to someone else who has a higher ceiling.

Sure if Heinen pots 25 and makes me look like an idiot that would be great..........I just dont see it

 

[AuroraBorealis]

No misconception on Heinen, hes soft, floats, weak on the wall and on the ice but has a nice shot.

"Weak on the wall" while ending up with a 56.2% corsi for the year. Impressive feat that, especially in a Sullivan system.

JFresh has his ES defense at the 61 percentile. That's some pretty good defensive work for a floater. He also never takes PIM's and doesn't handicap us that way. He's probably someone we could use on the PK, which Sully has mentioned is an option.

He also scored 3 goals in the playoffs. Kappy has 1 in 13 games there.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

"Weak on the wall" while ending up with a 56.2% corsi for the year. Impressive feat that, especially in a Sullivan system.

JFresh has his ES defense at the 61 percentile. That's some pretty good defensive work for a floater. He also never takes PIM's and doesn't handicap us that way. He's probably someone we could use on the PK, which Sully has mentioned is an option.

He also scored 3 goals in the playoffs. Kappy has 1 in 13 games there.

You cant possibly tell me you watch Danton Heinen and think he is strong on the puck and on the walls.

Cmon bud he's soft, has a nice shot and average Hockey IQ......he is nothing special.

Call me whatever you want but JFresh.......Hockeydog ......whatever charts your bringing up I take with a grain of salt. They are nice to look at but they definitely dont tell the whole story. Those same charts are proven wrong time and time again

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Its not that I don't like him, I already said I like him as a depth guy.

I just dont think he's a guy you want in the top 6 of your team if you are contending for a cup. Sure if you are building a team and need some depth guys put him there but we aren't, we have some generational players coming to the end of their careers that want to win. My idea of top 6 guys probably differ from some here but his game doesn't translate to a top 6 guy in my opinion. IMO we are a top 6 guy short of being where we need to be. Kap or Zucker making that move would put us in a much better position

Can you elaborate on what things in a player's game make for a top 6 guy, in your opinion?
And also, can you have a player without some of those skills but who works in a top 6 role due to having complementary skills?

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Can you elaborate on what things in a player's game make for a top 6 guy, in your opinion?
And also, can you have a player without some of those skills but who works in a top 6 role due to having complementary skills?

Yes you can have a complementary player who fits in the 6 , but it has to be a solid fit. I dont believe Heinen is the type of player who meshes well in our top 6. We are pretty soft in the top 6 as it is. I am not looking for a goon. I am looking for a guy with sandpaper in his game that can play with the skilled guys and drive some play, do some dirty work. Win battles.

I can sit here and type out a page of things that makes a player a top 6 guy. It would sound pretty silly, its easier to say I would like to see a guy in the mold of a Tanner Jeannot. We dont have that.

What we do have is players with much higher ceilings than Heinen and I would much rather let that play out. Let Heinen fill out the bottom depth and let the higher skill guys figure it out

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You cant possibly tell me you watch Danton Heinen and think he is strong on the puck and on the walls.

Cmon bud he's soft, has a nice shot and average Hockey IQ......he is nothing special.

Call me whatever you want but JFresh.......Hockeydog ......whatever charts your bringing up I take with a grain of salt. They are nice to look at but they definitely dont tell the whole story. Those same charts are proven wrong time and time again

I don't give a f*** about raw strength on the walls if the puck is getting lost and they have no spacial awareness of where their linemates are at, leading to giveaways. This is one of Zucker and Kap's problems. They don't know what to do to maintain O-zone time with Malkin.
Heinen wins and maintains possession with his brain.

Hockey IQ.... Yeah, as if his isn't higher than Kap or Zuck's. Kap basically just runs straight lines and curls back at the first sign of adversity.
If his speed doesn't give him the space he is clueless on how to proceed.

Yes you can have a complementary player who fits in the 6 , but it has to be a solid fit. I dont believe Heinen is the type of player who meshes well in our top 6. We are pretty soft in the top 6 as it is. I am not looking for a goon. I am looking for a guy with sandpaper in his game that can play with the skilled guys and drive some play, do some dirty work. Win battles.

Heinen meshed in the top 6 in every way besides finishing, which may change. Please watch the games.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I don't give a f*** about raw strength on the walls if the puck is getting lost and they have no spacial awareness of where their linemates are at, leading to giveaways. This is one of Zucker and Kap's problems. They don't know what to do to maintain O-zone time with Malkin.
Heinen wins and maintains possession with his brain.

Hockey IQ.... Yeah, as if his isn't higher than Kap or Zuck's. Kap basically just runs straight lines and curls back at the first sign of adversity.
If his speed doesn't give him the space he is clueless on how to proceed.


Heinen meshed in the top 6 in every way besides finishing, which may change. Please watch the games.

Lol get a Heinen jersey I guess than, guy has been in the NHL almost 7 years and never potted 20 goals.

As I said Ill take the players with higher ceilings in the top 6 and hope to build a more dominant top 6 than with vanilla Heinen.

I watch every game I can in the NHL and most of the pens games. Great sport to watch and play

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Yes you can have a complementary player who fits in the 6 , but it has to be a solid fit. I dont believe Heinen is the type of player who meshes well in our top 6. We are pretty soft in the top 6 as it is. I am not looking for a goon. I am looking for a guy with sandpaper in his game that can play with the skilled guys and drive some play, do some dirty work. Win battles.

I can sit here and type out a page of things that makes a player a top 6 guy. It would sound pretty silly, its easier to say I would like to see a guy in the mold of a Tanner Jeannot. We dont have that.

What we do have is players with much higher ceilings than Heinen and I would much rather let that play out. Let Heinen fill out the bottom depth and let the higher skill guys figure it out

I don't know that we have any young Tanner Jeannot-type players in our system. Maybe Legare or Poulin as sort of Jeannot-lite, but that would be it.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I don't know that we have any young Tanner Jeannot-type players in our system. Maybe Legare or Poulin as sort of Jeannot-lite, but that would be it.

We don't I was basing the answer of what you were asking I was looking for and would like to see on the team.

A healthy Miles Wood (while not a true top 6 guy) would be one of those complimentary players that I think would excel with our L2

Since we dont I would rather give the guys the opportunity who I feel could score 25-30 goals in that role with a better skillset. Heinen is not that player. He has never scored 20, if he's not scoring, is soft and just playing a sound defensive game then put him in the bottom 6

I think I found his biggest fan though..........If you go back through my post I wasn't even really shit talking Heinen, I just dont want him in the top 6.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

We don't I was basing the answer of what you were asking I was looking for and would like to see on the team.

A healthy Miles Wood (while not a true top 6 guy) would be one of those complimentary players that I think would excel with our L2

Since we dont I would rather give the guys the opportunity who I feel could score 25-30 goals in that role with a better skillset. Heinen is not that player. He has never scored 20, if he's not scoring, is soft and just playing a sound defensive game then put him in the bottom 6

Oh, I get it. You want players with a standard 'Top 6' skillset playing there, and if they don't have that then the exception would be a Tanner Jeannot-type of player. Am I understanding you now?

 

[Peat]

It could be that, or maybe they just really wanted Archibald on WBS and figured the one-way deal (plus a little extra cash) would help him slide through waivers more easily.

Possibly, but it's more or less unprecedented that I know of to sign a guy specifically for the AHL on a more than minimum wage deal, and also for a forward with NHL ambitions to sign with an org that he knows wants him for the AHL. A year in the AHL could kill Archibald's career at this point.

Not to mention why would you even desperately want Archibald in the AHL? He's not a bruiser who'll protect them, he's not a highly skilled forward who'll make the team better, he's not a touted leader. He's an unusual mix of speed and pest, but that's not something worth spending big on in the AHL.

 

[Andy99]

I don't know that we have any young Tanner Jeannot-type players in our system. Maybe Legare or Poulin as sort of Jeannot-lite, but that would be it.

Andronovski…I’m hoping

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Andronovski…I’m hoping

He went to Princeton. I wish intelligence translated to hockey more. Could use the help in the bottom 6.

Craig Adams was one of the smartest on the team though.