Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[IcedCapp]

just watching these games, i can't help thinking every team in the playoffs right now is wishing they had Tristan Jarry

 

[Coastal Kev]

Only hope is to TRADE SULLY.

not joking

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Rutta is a good third pair D man who has a decent contract. Plus he will partner with POJ or Smith a bring them needed experience as well. He has size and can add needed positional defense to the Pens right side. But Pens need to get younger on the right side back end a move Petry for a nice pick works for both cap space and bringing in a younger fit for the second pairing. Trade with that capital for a younger D man as cant have 3 over 35 D men thinking they can stay healthy.

Tangently related, but I'd be ok with keeping Dumo if there was no possible way he'd end up on the 2nd or 3rd pairing. But with Sully's usage, you know he's going to be with Letang (again) and be the #1 PKer

This is the kind of shit where I want to slap posters upside the head who blame this mess entirely on Hextall. Dumo had a place on this season's roster...he's a reliable stay-at-home guy who could thrive on the 3rd pair. But Sully is gonna lose the plot so he needs his toys taken away

 

[LOGiK]

Tangently related, but I'd be ok with keeping Dumo if there was no possible way he'd end up on the 2nd or 3rd pairing. But with Sully's usage, you know he's going to be with Letang (again) and be the #1 PKer

This is the kind of shit where I want to slap posters upside the head who blame this mess entirely on Hextall. Dumo had a place on this season's roster...he's a reliable stay-at-home guy who could thrive on the 3rd pair. But Sully is gonna lose the plot so he needs his toys taken away

Why the man needs to go.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Tangently related, but I'd be ok with keeping Dumo if there was no possible way he'd end up on the 2nd or 3rd pairing. But with Sully's usage, you know he's going to be with Letang (again) and be the #1 PKer

This is the kind of shit where I want to slap posters upside the head who blame this mess entirely on Hextall. Dumo had a place on this season's roster...he's a reliable stay-at-home guy who could thrive on the 3rd pair. But Sully is gonna lose the plot so he needs his toys taken away

I think Dumo will also be paid more than you would want for a 3rd pair plus is he willing to accept a role on the 3rd pair in Pittsburgh with all his buddies.

I think in these cases it is easier for them to accept the role on a different team. And even if that different teams pays him more they don't have the history, thus don't feel obligated to keep him with his friends.

 

[LOGiK]

I think Dumo will also be paid more than you would want for a 3rd pair plus is he willing to accept a role on the 3rd pair in Pittsburgh with all his buddies.

I think in these cases it is easier for them to accept the role on a different team. And even if that different teams pays him more they don't have the history, thus don't feel obligated to keep him with his friends.

Professional sports and friendships makes things messy.

 

[molon labe]

If you keep Dumo he's finding his way to whichever pair Letang is on.

Just like the powerplay - they'll look amazing in practice with so many years of chemistry - it won't be until the game when he gets turned around like a clock. God I hate our powerplay so much - but they're good opportunities for bathroom/beer breaks.

I'd rather ship both out than have that same pairing again - and I really like Dumo. For whatever reason - I've said all year - it looked like both Dumo and Rust took the Summer off last year and never recouped. His whole job being to cover for Letang - not sure we can afford a guy who's a step slower than everyone on the ice. But if it were truly guaranteed he was third pairing for Ruh money...absolutely.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If you keep Dumo he's finding his way to whichever pair Letang is on.

Just like the powerplay - they'll look amazing in practice with so many years of chemistry - it won't be until the game when he gets turned around like a clock. God I hate our powerplay so much - but they're good opportunities for bathroom/beer breaks.

I'd rather ship both out than have that same pairing again - and I really like Dumo. For whatever reason - I've said all year - it looked like both Dumo and Rust took the Summer off last year and never recouped. His whole job being to cover for Letang - not sure we can afford a guy who's a step slower than everyone on the ice. But if it were truly guaranteed he was third pairing for Ruh money...absolutely.

Our PP just doesn't have enough movement. They want to get the job done while standing still mostly.
If you watch the Oilers PP they do have more quality in straight up offensive ability, yes, but they're also all over the place with their rotations and overlaps.
We don't create shooting lanes half as well. We mostly just ended up trying to pass it into the net at this point, using someone as a backboard.

Plus our point shots aren't dangerous at all.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't even think Dumo has a place on the roster next season. Smith needs to play in the NHL. POJ ain't good, but he's cheap, and is still young. Petts is a clear upgrade over Dumo's best anymore.

Dumo could end up being this summer's worst contract. Dude might end up getting like a four year deal and he's gonna suck absolute shit for every one of those four years. But all know how GMs and coaches love a good soldier and consummate professional like Brian Dumoulin. I just hope someone gives him an offer that he can't turn down and it ultimately leads him far away from Pittsburgh.

 

[chethejet]

Dumo stuck reall bad for far to many games to even be a consideration. The very first thing the new GM does is tell Dumo there is no deal here. He is a class act but he is done.. Now Pens need at least one of not two physical LD so Soucy is a FA at least he is until Seattle makes an offer or lets him walk. I shop Petry and see if he brings back a pick. Tthe new GM/Front office will have the draft and spend time in the who is what here.

No question the rebuild of the system is the second pressing issue. Draft picks and hopefully the LD from last year can develop in juniors next year and then AHl for one or two years. Move Granlund with retaining some salary. More cap room. Lots for the GM to clean up here before he even gets to the coaching and getting the balance that hextall failed to do. The GM has to have full control over the hockey operations including roster management and what he wants as to style of play. Sully has to adapt or move him. Lots of openings out there and Sully will be in demand with a trade.

 

[Flying Dego]

I think Dumo will also be paid more than you would want for a 3rd pair plus is he willing to accept a role on the 3rd pair in Pittsburgh with all his buddies.

I think in these cases it is easier for them to accept the role on a different team. And even if that different teams pays him more they don't have the history, thus don't feel obligated to keep him with his friends.

The thing with Dumo hinges on Sullivan. If he gets to continue his coaching stranglehold here Dumo is back.

He played 21 minutes a night and set career high in points. No chance Sully doesnt get his man back. Everyone knows he's losing it and has been on the slide only continuing to worsen.

We may get caught with an anchor here in the 4M for multi-year range. I'd unfortunately say more likely than not until someone proves change is coming.

 

[molon labe]

Our PP just doesn't have enough movement. They want to get the job done while standing still mostly.
If you watch the Oilers PP they do have more quality in straight up offensive ability, yes, but they're also all over the place with their rotations and overlaps.
We don't create shooting lanes half as well. We mostly just ended up trying to pass it into the net at this point, using someone as a backboard.

Plus our point shots aren't dangerous at all.

Our Power Play has looked like pickup basketball at the Y for several seasons now.

Bunch of old dudes with attitude issues standing around the 3 point line with an occasional drive (Jake) that ends up with a player down on the ice and the ball rolling up court.

just watching these games, i can't help thinking every team in the playoffs right now is wishing they had Tristan Jarry

You're assuming every team in the playoffs would have rather not been?

 

[edog37]

Lol no it's not. Just because Josh Yohe claimed this doesn't mean it's true.

name a team that would make the deal for him.

 

[Pancakes]

Our PP just doesn't have enough movement. They want to get the job done while standing still mostly.
If you watch the Oilers PP they do have more quality in straight up offensive ability, yes, but they're also all over the place with their rotations and overlaps.
We don't create shooting lanes half as well. We mostly just ended up trying to pass it into the net at this point, using someone as a backboard.

Plus our point shots aren't dangerous at all.

Our entries are a bigger problem than what happens once we get in zone imo.

Never seen a team struggle so much to just enter the zone on the PP. Our one move is the drop pass and if teams shut down that breakout we have no answers.

 

[LOGiK]

Our entries are a bigger problem than what happens once we get in zone imo.

Never seen a team struggle so much to just enter the zone on the PP. Our one move is the drop pass and if teams shut down that breakout we have no answers.

I hate that stupid entry....
What makes it more painfully mediocre is when you watch teams with good entry.

 

[Pancakes]

I hate that stupid entry....
What makes it more painful that it is obviously mediocre is when you what teams with good entry.

A lot of teams use the drop pass entry. The thing is you have to carry the puck up the ice with speed. Not just lolly gag up the ice at 2 mph and telegraph it.

If you carry it up ice with speed and threaten to skate the puck in then teams have to respect that and the drop pass opens up more.

Every player on our team is just out for an afternoon skate and teams don't respect it at all

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

As people have pointed out the NZ drop is something a ton of teams employ as A strategy... particularly against aggressive PKs. It's not THE strategy. Todddddddddd uses the drop pass as a near-requirement. Like his buddy Disco back in the day with the stretch-pass madness.

I've literally watched this team ignore open lanes dozens of times that they could skate a damned bus through in favor of dropping it and then usually trying to fling it rink wide to someone standing idle on the opposing team's line. Rank stupidity.

 

[LOGiK]

A lot of teams use the drop pass entry. The thing is you have to carry the puck up the ice with speed. Not just lolly gag up the ice at 2 mph and telegraph it.

If you carry it up ice with speed and threaten to skate the puck in then teams have to respect that and the drop pass opens up more.

Every player on our team is just out for an afternoon skate and teams don't respect it at all

The thing with the penguins is you know it's coming the majority of the time.
What's plan b, carry in with speed? (and get swarmed)
Or plan c, dump and chase (with speed)

 

[Pancakes]

The thing with the penguins is you know it's coming the majority of the time.
What's plan b, carry in with speed? (and get swarmed)
Or plan c, dump and chase (with speed)

How it should work is:

Letang (or whoever) carries the puck up ice with speed. If the PK backs up enough to let him enter the zone, he just takes the ice and does that. If they play him tight, he drops it and the drop pass receiver carries the puck in with space.

How it actually works is:

Letang (or whoever) carries the puck up the ice at 90 year old man in a walker speed. The PK correctly deduces they have no interest in entering the zone with speed and are 100% gonna do a drop pass. They let Letang do it and then close off the lanes for the puck carrier.

As a ton of people have pointed out the NZ drop is something a ton of teams employ as A strategy... particularly against aggressive PKs. It's not THE strategy. Todddddddddd uses the drop pass as a near-requirement. Like his buddy Disco back in the day with the stretch-pass madness.

I've literally watched this team ignore open lanes dozens of times that they could skate a damned bus through in favor of dropping it and then usually trying to fling it rink wide to someone standing idle on the opposing team's line. Rank stupidity.

The only other wrinkles we seem to have on the PP apart from the drop pass are:

1) Stretch pass to Guentzel to catch the d. This is actually a cool breakout and rarely works and gets us a breakaway or easy entry.

2) Malkin freelances and ignores everything the coaching staff says and just dangles his way in

God bless Geno. How many times over the years has he rescued bad Penguins coaching schemes by just doing whatever the f*** he wants and being unpredictable?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

How it should work is:

Letang (or whoever) carries the puck up ice with speed. If the PK backs up enough to let him enter the zone, he just takes the ice and does that. If they play him tight, he drops it and the drop pass receiver carries the puck in with space.

How it actually works is:

Letang (or whoever) carries the puck up the ice at 90 year old man in a walker speed. The PK correctly deduces they have no interest in entering the zone with speed and are 100% gonna do a drop pass. They let Letang do it and then close off the lanes for the puck carrier.

f***in' bingo.

We know this. The team knows this. The whole league knows this.

Is it any wonder they look like a bunch of bumbling cretins out there? Everyone knows what they are going to do. Powerplay or otherwise. "Predictable" is an understatement. They are getting to "time capsule" status at this point.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Our PP just doesn't have enough movement. They want to get the job done while standing still mostly.
If you watch the Oilers PP they do have more quality in straight up offensive ability, yes, but they're also all over the place with their rotations and overlaps.
We don't create shooting lanes half as well. We mostly just ended up trying to pass it into the net at this point, using someone as a backboard.

Plus our point shots aren't dangerous at all.

Imagine being the manager of a group of people that are extremely talented individuals, but they absolutely stink as a group. Whether that's personality clashes or the way someone distributes/receives workflow and information.

When asked about the collective, you essentially say that you don't manage them and "they'll eventually figure it out"

That is literally what Sullivan said about the PP. That isn't dereliction of duty? That isn't grounds to be fired right there? If I were that manager's boss I'd be fuming. But everyone just shrugs it off and says Sully is the best ever. There are posters on here still backing the person. I swear I'm in a Black Mirroe episode

 

[ChaosAgent]

Imagine being the manager of a group of people that are extremely talented individuals, but they absolutely stink as a group. Whether that's personality clashes or the way someone distributes/receives workflow and information.

When asked about the collective, you essentially say that you don't manage them and "they'll eventually figure it out"

That is literally what Sullivan said about the PP. That isn't dereliction of duty? That isn't grounds to be fired right there? If I were that manager's boss I'd be fuming. But everyone just shrugs it off and says Sully is the best ever. There are posters on here still backing the person. I swear I'm in a Black Mirroe episode

There are a lot of Sully complaints but let's be honest. You have 3 guys with 51 combined years of experience playing together there. Okay maybe 35 since Letang didn't immediately go to PP1. They know what they like to do together.

The bigger flaw was never swapping Jake for Zucker so we never had a willing forechecker with speed to dump/chase. But Zucker was what made PP2 so effective sooooo...eh.

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

It’s funny reading the various themes in these threads and you realize what you knew watching all along, just more clearly…..:this team really wasn’t good at anything! Goaltending, D, speed, power play. I think some 5 v 5 top six metrics looked pretty good, but I wonder if you cut those by games against playoff vs non-playoff how it looks.

But yeah 2023 almost astoundingly futile.

 

[Pancakes]

It’s funny reading the various themes in these threads and you realize what you knew watching all along, just more clearly…..:this team really wasn’t good at anything! Goaltending, D, speed, power play. I think some 5 v 5 top six metrics looked pretty good, but I wonder if you cut those by games against playoff vs non-playoff how it looks.

But yeah 2023 almost astoundingly futile.

It's why a lot has to go right for us to rebound next year. And given our star player's age, we might not get seasons this good out of Crosby and Malkin next year.

This year might have been the end of the line for us. Here's hoping that's not the case, but our new gm has a lot of work to do to fix things for next year.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Who would want him? It’s widely known throughout the league Hextall made a bad trade. Nobody else would’ve made that deal. They sure aren’t going to make it now either.

Granlund is one year removed from scoring 64 points.

And if everyone and their mother on this board could see that Sullivan actively used Granlund against his strengths, FOs in other organizations would recognize this too.

Pens could flip him for a fourth or fifth.