Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: We suck again summer edition

[AuroraBorealis]

Carter got 43% zone starts in his first small season as a Penguin (which I'm using rather than trying to parse what he got at 2C and what he got at 3C the next season).

It's not that Sully is opposed to giving that usage to a 3C. It's fairly common usage for a 3C with him.

That's what I'm saying. It depends on the quality of the new 3C, if we get one. The early offensive yields will probably dictate how he gets used for the rest of the year. He can open Sully's eyes in October, while they're still deciding the optimal way to use the lineup. Historically, MS gives new acquisitions chances early on in their stay.

More to the point though... what makes you think they're going to be better if asked to carry a bigger defensive load? If they couldn't get the results to justify their offensive zone starts last season, what makes you think that giving them more defensive work won't just create an even bigger mountain for the bottom six to climb?

They won't be, but I feel that the net gains for the team could be largest this way. The bottom 6 need to be milked for more when they have good form during games.
The top 6 needs to be used less when their form is crap.
Carter was what? -16? Blueger -7. What if we get a 3C who's lines are even marginal net positives for the year? That's a giant swing for the team. Someone who could hold the fort, like O'Reilly perhaps.

And what makes you think a not particularly talented bottom six is going to be able to climb it even with nicer zone starts?

TBD on the quality of Dubas' bottom 6. Could be fairly decent. Let's see what Nylander, DOC and Puustinen got.
Some guys were so awful in our bottom 6 that there's so much improvement to be made just by virtue of not being liabilities.
Archibald's line was super stingy defensively. If he's re-signed, they mostly just need to maintain something close to that. It's unfortunate that he missed 20 games.
Have L3 shore things up and you got something cooking.

We're probably talking about small differences in differentials with whatever approach is employed. But in the Pens position, that could be enough to get them a playoff seed.

 

[Peat]

That's what I'm saying. It depends on the quality of the new 3C, if we get one. The early offensive yields will probably dictate how he gets used for the rest of the year. He can open Sully's eyes in October, while they're still deciding the optimal way to use the lineup. Historically, MS gives new acquisitions chances early on in their stay.

I am firmly of the belief that their quality will decide their usage, not in that I think Sully is an absolute impartial and imperfect judge, but in that I think the bottom six (and supporting dmen) was such a mess that they generated a ton of defensive zone starts that didn't need to happen. Remember, it's not like Sid and Geno saw their offensive zone starts go up. It's just Carter and Blueger saw theirs go down. That's what's going to happen if you're not going to get out of the zone.

This is where it starts. I know usage determines a lot, but good players can determine a lot about their usage too. Last year's bottom 6 was bad, and as a result, you couldn't sanely give them more minutes or more offensive zone starts or use them to relieve the top 6 very often.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I mean maybe if he'd produce at higher than a 20 point pace, the team would feel more comfortable with him as a L3 option

I dunno, maybe if he wasn’t shat on with the fourth line usage and when he was playing well, tried in the top 6 over some jackass named Heinen, we’d find out.

But sure I guess, he couldn’t produce with a destroyed Blueger and lifeless Carter. Oh right, that’s like everyone that played with them in that usage.

There's also Debrincat.

Those are the swing for the fence type moves.

Cat is more or less just getting moved because he’s expensive given he is a stud of a player.

Dubois has asked for a trade in juniors and twice in the nhl. I feel like that stink is starting to waft with him.

 

[Pancakes]

Honestly I think the whole zone starts thing is a little overblown. It has effects for sure but Jeff Carter for example started 57% of his shifts on the fly.

Perhaps the d-zone starts didn't do him any favors, but what the hell was he doing the other 57% of his shifts?

 

[BusinessGoose]

It's gonna be real funny when we tell Jarry and CDS to leave, then no goalie signs here and we can't land a trade....because why would we?

Go into next year with... *checks notes in WBS*... Literally no one in net.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Perhaps the d-zone starts didn't do him any favors, but what the hell was he doing the other 57% of his shifts?

Losing possession, failing to generate offense, and otherwise sucking out loud.

 

[Pens x]

It's gonna be real funny when we tell Jarry and CDS to leave, then no goalie signs here and we can't land a trade....because why would we?

Go into next year with... *checks notes in WBS*... Literally no one in net.

That would happen if sleepy was still the GM.

 

[Darren McCord]

I don't really agree. Sure that's a ton of money to spend on goalies, but they have a ton of cap space available and not really much to spend it on. Like I've posted before, their forward group is absolutely stacked and I think their defense is mostly full.

After Dunn, Geekie and Borgen get re-signed, they're probably sitting at about $10 million in cap space with 12 F, 5 D and 1 goalie under contract, and the holes they need to fill are a 3rd pair LD. They might price themselves out of Ullmark though if they go after someone like Graves, but I don't think it's super likely they do that.

Speaking of which, the Kraken with Graves looks like a nasty team to me:

McCann-Beniers-Eberle
Schwartz-Gourde-Burakovsky
Tolvanen-Wennberg-Bjorkstrand
Kartye-Geekie-Tanev

Dunn-Larsson
Graves-Schultz
Oleksiak-Borgen

Grubauer-XXXXX

Just gotta figure out who the other goalie will be.

Still lacks a true game breaker just like vegas until they got stone and Eichel. Schwartz and Eberle need to start being pushed down that lineup.

 

[Andy99]

From Dejan in his Friday Insider segment:

“For more reasons than I can count, from more sources than I can count, I'm not expecting Tristan Jarry back in Pittsburgh for the 2023-24 NHL season. I'll leave that right there.”

please be right for once!

 

[mephisto1812]

Which you could in that case have
Zucker Geno ........... New guy and put Rusty on the 3rd.

If anything Zucker would be a luxury middle 6 winger on this team if he took a team friendly deal.

I'd love to have Rust on L3, but unless KD brings someone in to force it, it's never going to happen. And even if KD DOES manage to get someone that could force the move, I would be shocked if Sully didn't bump RR to L3 instead.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I'd love to have Rust on L3, but unless KD brings someone in to force it, it's never going to happen. And even if KD DOES manage to get someone that could force the move, I would be shocked if Sully didn't bump RR to L3 instead.

I believe if we want to see this team compete like Dubas has said he will need to and plans to bring in another top 6 winger.

Lets face it all of Rust, Rakell or Zucker would be a luxury on L3 and be able to move up in a pinch in any situation. Thats the kind of depth that can make you successful. A lot still has to play out here and I am excited to see another year of both DOC and Poehling filling out the bottom 6.

I do believe that Dubas will have some input on the build out and lineups, Hextall and Sully were on different planets.

 

[TimmyD]

It's gonna be real funny when we tell Jarry and CDS to leave, then no goalie signs here and we can't land a trade....because why would we?

Go into next year with... *checks notes in WBS*... Literally no one in net.

At least it would be different and exciting!

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Bunting ($4.5M) - Crosby - Rakell
Guentzel - Malkin - Rust
LWer ($3M) - Roy - Barabanov
DOC ($1M) - Poehling ($1M) - Carter
Nylander

Grzelcyk - Letang
Pettersson - Petry
POJ - Rutta
Smith ($1M) - Ruhwedel
[Simek buried $1.1M] & [JMFJ buyout]

Andersen ($3.4M) - Korpisalo ($2.6M) [or another goalie platoon for around $6M]

[~$200k in cap space]

Granlund, mid-tier prospect (Gruden?), PIT 2023 1st, NJD 2023 3rd
to SJS for
Barabanov, Simek, NJD 2023 1st, SJS 2023 4th

PIT 2024 2nd, Poulin
to VGK for
Roy

CDS
to BOS for
Grzelcyk

 

[Andy99]

Bunting ($4.5M) - Crosby - Rakell
Guentzel - Malkin - Rust
LWer ($3M) - Roy - Barabanov
DOC ($1M) - Poehling ($1M) - Carter
Nylander

Grzelcyk - Letang
Pettersson - Petry
POJ - Rutta
Smith ($1M) - Ruhwedel
[Simek buried $1.1M] & [JMFJ buyout]

Andersen ($3.4M) - Korpisalo ($2.6M) [or another goalie platoon for around $6M]

[~$200k in cap space]

Granlund, mid-tier prospect (Gruden?), PIT 2023 1st, NJD 2023 3rd
to SJS for
Barabanov, Simek, NJD 2023 1st, SJS 2023 4th

PIT 2024 2nd, Poulin
to VGK for
Roy

CDS
to BOS for
Grzelcyk

I like it…but expect a top six of Jake-Sid-Rust and Bunting-G-Rakell because, you know, the coach lol…put your resume in with Dubas

 

[Josey Wales]

Bunting ($4.5M) - Crosby - Rakell
Guentzel - Malkin - Rust
LWer ($3M) - Roy - Barabanov
DOC ($1M) - Poehling ($1M) - Carter
Nylander

Grzelcyk - Letang
Pettersson - Petry
POJ - Rutta
Smith ($1M) - Ruhwedel
[Simek buried $1.1M] & [JMFJ buyout]

Andersen ($3.4M) - Korpisalo ($2.6M) [or another goalie platoon for around $6M]

[~$200k in cap space]

Granlund, mid-tier prospect (Gruden?), PIT 2023 1st, NJD 2023 3rd
to SJS for
Barabanov, Simek, NJD 2023 1st, SJS 2023 4th

PIT 2024 2nd, Poulin
to VGK for
Roy

CDS
to BOS for
Grzelcyk

You still don't understand Sid wants Guentzel on his line

 

[Josey Wales]

I like it…but expect a top six of Jake-Sid-Rust and Bunting-G-Rakell because, you know, the coach lol…put your resume in with Dubas

WRONG Sid Golden Boy want Guentzel on his line

 

[Andy99]

WRONG Sid Golden Boy want Guentzel on his line

Who runs this team? Is Sid gonna force Dubas to sign Jake to an extension for 8 years at $8.5M too?

 

[Darren McCord]

Who runs this team? Is Sid gonna force Dubas to sign Jake to an extension for 8 years at $8.5M too?

Yes.....

But probably 8 x 8.7
I am hoping for 8 x 7 though.

 

[Peat]

6.25m for Severson in CBJ.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Who runs this team? Is Sid gonna force Dubas to sign Jake to an extension for 8 years at $8.5M too?

Dubas did meet with Sid prior to commitment : )

 

[Pens x]

Who runs this team? Is Sid gonna force Dubas to sign Jake to an extension for 8 years at $8.5M too?

Let’s not forget this team signed Jack Johnson to a huge contract. Anything is possible.

 

[Lust for Life]

It's been over a week and this sleepy doofus still hasn't traded all our bad contracts for good ones, what a flop

 

[3ladesof5teel]

6.25m for Severson in CBJ.

That's a nice chunk for Severson. I wouldn't want to pay that

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Is that the first "sign & trade" in some time? Or am I forgetting something recent?

 

[Lust for Life]

Is that the first "sign & trade" in some time? Or am I forgetting something recent?

Tkachuk-trade, right?