Salary Cap: Penguins Salary Cap Thread: Ploff time

[AuroraBorealis]

Not playing more is about endurance to get through a season to not be worn out, not get freak injuries.

He only played 58 games.

Not getting adequate recovery time leaves your body vulnerable to injury.
58 games is a lot in the current NHL. Jarry would have gotten more if not for Covid too.

I don't like how Sully overplayed him last year. We made the playoffs with a 19 point buffer and didn't need to do that.

 

[Flying Dego]

Malkin’s contract will be 3x6mil and 2 pug puppies

View attachment 563699

I say this not trying to hurt feelings...but Pugs are an abomination. Those dogs were never meant to be alive.

Too much breeding that gave them issue on top of issue.

Adopt a real dog people.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I say this not trying to hurt feelings...but Pugs are an abomination. Those dogs were never meant to be alive.

Too much breeding that gave them issue on top of issue.

Adopt a real dog people.

 

[Flying Dego]

View attachment 563765

I've been dead inside for a long time. No sweat my guy. Loved you in Cast Aways.

 

[dogthateats]

 

[Ugene Magic]

People are really wussing down the goaltending position. You have a starter and you have a backup. The starter usually plays in that 60/70% of the games.

You need your backup to give a rest and take care of b2b issues. Around 25 games give or take. Only when you have two very average goalies and injuries will you see a more even split most times.

Jarry is a top 10 or better goalie in this league. The Pens team as a whole is not. They are average more akin to be a middle of the pack, get by with some overachiever's while their stars are out to keep them afloat.

The Pens should have missed some playoffs due to how frequent some guys are injured and the lack of real quality depth, and that's not even counting the goaltending.

 

[Flying Dego]

The sooner we get this board mentality to a Nihilist movement the better...buckle up for a fun next 10 years of Pens hockey...

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You need your backup to give a rest and take care of b2b issues. Around 25 games give or take. Only when you have two very average goalies and injuries will you see a more even split most times.

Or when your backup is strong

Or when you have a comfortable position in the playoff race

 

[Ugene Magic]

Or when your backup is strong

Or when you have a comfortable position in the playoff race

First: It is very rare to have two strong goaltenders, an anomaly. If they were both strong that backup would be a starter somewhere.
Second: The starter in a comfortable position in the playoffs isn't given rest unless a game is clearly out of reach (blowout) and you are resting him in the latter part of the game, and even then most are left in.

I don't know of too many games where the goalie was pulled outside of leaking too many goals and injuries. It has nothing to do with endurance, it's games every other night and 2 days generally upon switching venues in the back to back home and away to start off.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

First: It is very rare to have two strong goaltenders, an anomaly. If they were both strong that backup would be a starter somewhere.
Second: The starter in a comfortable position in the playoffs isn't given rest unless a game is clearly out of reach (blowout) and you are resting him in the latter part of the game, and even then most are left in.

I don't know of too many games where the goalie was pulled outside of leaking too many goals and injuries. It has nothing to do with endurance, it's games every other night and 2 days generally upon switching venues in the back to back home and away to start off.

Sully has brought up many times managing work loads when back-to-backs aren't a factor.
It's not just a physical endurance thing either. The season's a mental grind.
It does you no good if your healthy starting goalie is tapped out mentally come April.
What set us back last year in this regard was CDS starting slow. Sully couldn't trust him at that stage. Casey was vocal about his confidence being low.

The position is more demanding now than when Brodeur used to dominate starts. The whole league is faster. The average player shoots much harder and has more skill. Everyone's looking for lateral plays.
Look at man-games-lost for goalies last year. Staggering numbers.

We do have 2 strong goalies. Our backup is a career .915.
He was .916 during the season he got 36 games. He can handle it. Those are respectable numbers even for starters.

Jarry does not need to play 60 games next year. We can make the playoffs with him getting 50.
The East is looking to be quite weak.

Which of these teams is gonna take our spot?
If the answer is "nobody's close", then why not rest Jarry more?

 

[Ugene Magic]

Sully has brought up many times managing work loads when back-to-backs aren't a factor.
It's not just a physical endurance thing either. The season's a mental grind.
It does you no good if your healthy starting goalie is tapped out mentally come April.
What set us back last year in this regard was CDS starting slow. Sully couldn't trust him at that stage. Casey was vocal about his confidence being low.

The position is more demanding now than when Brodeur used to dominate starts. The whole league is faster. The average player shoots much harder and has more skill. Everyone's looking for lateral plays.
Look at man-games-lost for goalies last year. Staggering numbers.

We do have 2 strong goalies. Our backup is a career .915.
He was .916 during the season he got 36 games. He can handle it. Those are respectable numbers even for starters.

Jarry does not need to play 60 games next year. We can make the playoffs with him getting 50.
The East is looking to be quite weak.

CDS in 36 games was 15/11 and a .275 GAA. You must have a different definition to being strong. Being strong is in that 2.50 or less range, or there about's. Which he was a couple seasons in smaller sample sizes but had a similar or better SV%.

Either way, DeSmith has never started more than that one anomaly season. It seems like he's got better numbers the less he plays. Go figure.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

CDS in 36 games was 15/11 and a .275 GAA. You must have a different definition to being strong. Being strong is in that 2.50 or less range, or there about's. Which he was a couple seasons in smaller sample sizes but had a similar or better SV%.

Either way, DeSmith has never started more than that one anomaly season. It seems like he's got better numbers the less he plays. Go figure.

Wins/losses and GAA? That's no way to look at goalie stats.
Those are team stats. You often don't get much run support when you get B2B's either cuz the team's exhausted and turtling.

He has very consistent final numbers regardless of sample size.

Besides, Jarry's perceived grand superiority over him only really presented itself this season. They have identical career SV%'s.
I expect the gap to be smaller next year, with Jarry regressing a little and CDS being around the same or better.

This isn't a Vasilevskiy/Elliott situation like some people wanna make it sound.

Like I said, we don't need Jarry to play 60+ games to make the playoffs, so doing so is pointless and dangerous.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Not getting adequate recovery time leaves your body vulnerable to injury.
58 games is a lot in the current NHL. Jarry would have gotten more if not for Covid too.

I don't like how Sully overplayed him last year. We made the playoffs with a 19 point buffer and didn't need to do that.

Exactly. It seemed pretty clear we were going to be playing the Rags for the last month or so of the season. Assuming a healthy backup G, it would be a fine idea not to throw Jarry out there against the Flyers or Isles in the last two or three weeks of the season. They will run him, it is what they do.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Wins/losses and GAA? That's no way to look at goalie stats.
Those are team stats. You often don't get much run support when you get B2B's either cuz the team's exhausted and turtling.

He has very consistent final numbers regardless of sample size.

Besides, Jarry's perceived grand superiority over him only really presented itself this season. They have identical career SV%'s.
I expect the gap to be smaller next year, with Jarry regressing a little and CDS being around the same or better.

This isn't a Vasilevskiy/Elliott situation like some people wanna make it sound.

Like I said, we don't need Jarry to play 60+ games to make the playoffs, so doing so is pointless and dangerous.

Playing your best is pointless?

Some people really got spoiled with Fleury/Murray. The Pens don't have a 1a/1b situation here.

Having a decent backup is good to have, but your starter is going to get the most starts, and for good reason. There's about 10 goalies doing near or above 60 games. Look before covid hit. You are going to win playing your very best, and incase you didn't notice, there's a real threat this team will be even weaker than they already were.

That will fix things, play a career backup, more....

 

[Tom Hanks]

Thursday night trivia

When/who was last goalie to win a Stanley Cup playing 60 or more games?

Spoiler: And the winner is…..

Marc Andre Fleury 2009, 62 games. It was Quick in 2012, 69 games. NHL.com article said Fleury

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Playing your best is pointless?

Some people really got spoiled with Fleury/Murray. The Pens don't have a 1a/1b situation here.

Having a decent backup is good to have, but your starter is going to get the most starts, and for good reason. There's about 10 goalies doing near or above 60 games. Look before covid hit. You are going to win playing your very best, and incase you didn't notice, there's a real threat this team will be even weaker than they already were.

That will fix things, play a career backup, more....

Yeah we could be weaker, but who's taking our playoff spot then? The Islanders? The Flyers? The Red Wings? Who's making that massive jump? I don't see it.
If anything I see Boston regressing more than us. They have Marchand and McAvoy out the first few months.

I think this could be close to a 1A/1B situation, yes. I don't think you're objective about Casey, if you don't mind me saying.
It's either dislike or it's choosing a narrative about him a long time ago and sticking to your guns.
You're underselling his abilities and are too high on Jarry after one great year.
Coining someone a "career backup" means nothing to me if the goalie in question plays well regularly. I trust him to put up good numbers again because he's done it 4 times straight.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah we could be weaker, but who's taking our playoff spot then? The Islanders? The Flyers? The Red Wings? Who's making that massive jump? I don't see it.
If anything I see Boston regressing more than us. They have Marchand and McAvoy out the first few months.

I think this could be close to a 1A/1B situation, yes. I don't think you're objective about Casey, if you don't mind me saying.
It's either dislike or it's choosing a narrative about him a long time ago and sticking to your guns.
You're underselling his abilities and are too high on Jarry after one great year.
Coining someone a "career backup" means nothing to me if the goalie in question plays well regularly. I trust him to put up good numbers again because he's done it 4 times straight.

I'm calling him what he is and will always be. It has no distain behind it, and if you think they are a 1a/1b, even close as you put it we might as well not even talk anymore about it and call it an agree to disagree subject. For CDS to be that means he can be a NHL regular starter.

He's literally never done it and he's 30 going on 31.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Thursday night trivia

When/who was last goalie to win a Stanley Cup playing 60 or more games?

Spoiler: And the winner is…..

Marc Andre Fleury 2009, 62 games

Right, and that guy is abnormally durable for a starter. He's like the Ovechkin of goalies in that regard.
You do that with most goalies and you're playing with fire come round 1.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Thursday night trivia

When/who was last goalie to win a Stanley Cup playing 60 or more games?

Spoiler: And the winner is…..

Marc Andre Fleury 2009, 62 games

Johnathan Quick.

Don't forget there are a few shorten seasons in there or there could be more.

Vasi probably would have been the last if not for covid.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I'm calling him what he is and will always be. It has no distain behind it, and if you think they are a 1a/1b, even close as you put it we might as well not even talk anymore about it and call it an agree to disagree subject. For CDS to be that means he can be a NHL regular starter.

He's literally never done it and he's 30 going on 31.

They have identical career save %'s and you're putting Jarry on a pedestal and talking about CDS like a .900 career goalie.
It's so ridiculous...

He's "literally never done it" because he "literally was never given the opportunity"?
He got his first game in the NHL at 25 years old, despite very good numbers at previous levels. They were put off by his college incident, I'm assuming.
He got sent to the minors in 2019-20 after a .916 season and 36 games. No one hired him anyway, which was their mistake.

I bet you if you put him on a bad team he'll be no worse than some of their guys as the starter. Like Buffalo next year for example, who are bringing back 40 year old Anderson. Or Seattle who's goalies were f***ing awful. Or Arizona.

I'm so sick of people saying "he hasn't done this".
He is not the GM or coach. He's not the one who writes the lineup sheets or is in the front office. He doesn't make those decisions.
All he can do is play as best he can. That's all that's in his control.

And some players in this league just get screwed over.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Johnathan Quick.

Don't forget there are a few shorten seasons in there or there could be more.

Vasi probably would have been the last if not for covid.

Your right. Damn nhl.com article I read is lying.

I like the 50-55 range for starting goalies as a general rule. Hockey is more demanding than ever.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Since 2015-16. These encompass all the games Murray, Jarrs and CDS have played in Pens sweaters during reg season.
Where's the respect, @Ugene Magic?

 

[Ugene Magic]

They have identical career save %'s and you're putting Jarry on a pedestal and talking about CDS like a .900 career goalie.
It's so ridiculous...

He's "literally never done it" because he "literally was never given the opportunity"?
He got his first game in the NHL at 25 years old, despite very good numbers at previous levels. They were put off by his college incident, I'm assuming.
He got sent to the minors in 2019-20 after a .916 season and 36 games. No one hired him anyway, which was their mistake.

I bet you if you put him on a bad team he'll be no worse than some of their guys as the starter. Like Buffalo next year for example, who are bringing back 40 year old Anderson. Or Seattle who's goalies were f***ing awful. Or Arizona.

I'm so sick of people saying "he hasn't done this".
He is not the GM or coach. He's not the one who writes the lineup sheets or is in the front office. He doesn't make those decisions.
All he can do is play as best he can. That's all that's in his control.

And some players in this league just get screwed over.

You can't be serious.... "The screwed over card."

View attachment 563802

Since 2015-16. These encompass all the games Murray, Jarrs and CDS have played in Pens sweaters during reg season.
Where's the respect, @Ugene Magic?

They are all better than him, they all came with pedigree, done more, got drafted.

I guess they all screwed him over and forced his hand in beating up his girl. Went undrafted.

It's not like he never had the chance to force the teams hands or anything.

Whom screwed who?

He could have never been signed.

Not bad, get a backup gig and get paid millions.

 

[canadianguy77]

I don’t know how we can say with any degree of certainty how the playoff teams from next season will shake out. At least not until after FA. I think the Sabres have close to 40 million in space.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You can't be serious.... "The screwed over card."



They are all better than him, they all came with pedigree, done more, got drafted.

I guess they all screwed him over and forced his hand in beating up his girl. Went undrafted.

It's not like he never had the chance to force the teams hands or anything.

Whom screwed who?

He could have never been signed.

Not bad, get a backup gig and get paid millions.

Oh I am serious. Goalies who play that well for close to half the season normally earn contracts the following year. That was abnormal and a f*** up on NHL GMs part. He should be in a different organization right now based on his performance. Maybe even the starter there right now. Who knows how things would have turned out?

Nothing of what you said is supported by stats, so it's sort of a hollow conversation for me.
It's all based on feelings and morphed recollections of history.
The only stats you gave are games played and highly team based stats.

I give zero f***s about pedigree. Scouts assess players wrong all the time. They got Lafreniere wrong recently. They got Yakupov wrong. They got Kucherov wrong. They got Letang wrong. They got Guentzel wrong.
I care about performance. Stopping pucks. That's their job.

Him never being signed like you said would have also been a mistake, since he's better than many goalies in this league. That's what the stats support.
He's an above average backup who was never given a chance to be a starter anywhere, so he's stuck where he is.
That's all there is to this.