Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[PaulD]

Penguins have played the same way for 5 years. 5 to 10 new players every summer ......but they play the same way every season regardless of who suits up.

hows it that even possible??

Mike Sullivan's "melting pot"

 

[Pancakes]

There's a big difference between "executing well" and whatever the hell they're doing right now, though.

If the powerplay was like middle of the pack with this amount of talent, at that point I think you can firmly put it on the coaching. But they're at the bottom of the league and haven't scored a PP goal over their last 30 attempts. At that point, it's not just bad structure. With perfect execution, this team would have a top PP despite having a bad structure just because of the amount of pure talent on it.

The futility of the powerplay at this point firmly brings the players into being responsible as well. You don't go 0 for 40 or whatever with 4 future Hall of Famers and just say "it's the coach's fault".

I think right now it's a perfect storm of the structure being really bad and then the players slumping so hard that they're now having mental issues on the ice as well.

Like as awful as the PP structure is, yes there is a big time mental component to it right now as well. The players have zero confidence, and it shows.

I firmly believe that a reset with a new coaching staff would get this PP functional again. I don't think it's going to become functional any other way...not this season anyhow. But I don't think that reset is coming. I think we're stuck with this, which means we're gonna see just how low this PP can go.

 

[PaulD]

There is a boatload of nuance that comes between "coaches have full control" and "the inmates are running the asylum". Those are on the two extreme ends of things.

The coach can decide who he sends out there, but he can't make Crosby and Malkin shoot more. The reality is that Rierden's structure almost definitely sucks but the players are doing a trash job at executing. At some point, you should be able to score a goal when you're on the PP with that amount of talent. You should be able to produce with that much talent even if you had a HFBoard user just screaming "shoot" as the PP coach.

Even if that were so. We could list 100 NHL coaches fired for less.

 

[PaulD]

I think right now it's a perfect storm of the structure being really bad and then the players slumping so hard that they're now having mental issues on the ice as well.

Like as awful as the PP structure is, yes there is a big time mental component to it right now as well. The players have zero confidence, and it shows.

I firmly believe that a reset with a new coaching staff would get this PP functional again. I don't think it's going to become functional any other way...not this season anyhow. But I don't think that reset is coming. I think we're stuck with this, which means we're gonna see just how low this PP can go.

They have rhe best 5 on 5 line in the league. Worst 5 on 4 ?

 

[SEALBound]

Yohe's trash. But he's a good litmus test; as soon as he starts to openly question Sullivan or suggest he should be fired, then we can expect a coaching change. Never fails with the local Pens crew.

I thought the line of "Sullivan isn't the problem but he certainly doesn't have a solution" was actually a pretty fair description of what has occurred this year.

We are quickly getting into the "ride a bad situation into the dirt before making a change" territory.

It's a revolutionary idea, I know, but hear me out: a coach, like a parent, can set boundaries and punish players for not being responsible.

What like spanking them?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yohe's trash. But he's a good litmus test; as soon as he starts to openly question Sullivan or suggest he should be fired, then we can expect a coaching change. Never fails with the local Pens crew.

Litmus test? He always reminded me more of a pap smear test.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Litmus test? He always reminded me more of a pap smear test.

Anything to keep that press pass, baybeeeee.

 

[Gurglesons]

My understanding is there is some pretty interesting stuff in the interview with Dubas.

 

[Pancakes]

My understanding is there is some pretty interesting stuff in the interview with Dubas.

I wanted to listen to that but I forgot. Guess I'll have to see if I can find the recording/transcript

 

[Pens x]

hopefully FSG’s weird obsession with Sullsma ends soon.

 

[Ryder71]

hopefully FSG’s weird obsession with Sullsma ends soon.

Where have you been? we miss you! Well, a few of us do.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

That's the most probable case, but while you can fire the coach, you can't trade Sid.

Hey, stop talking about Sullivan.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The thing about Crosby is that he's now so attached to Guentzel that you can't even trade Jake anymore when Dubas should trade him as the biggest trade chip he has to get assets back to help make this team young with some potential that they can't draft but need to trade for or add more picks to get.

Like I am a big Rust fan, but I wanted to see the team move him and Jake to retool, not in the same year, but now it's like what's the options? You move Jake, Sid gets pissed, you fire Sullivan, now Crosby is even more pissed because the bloke that panders hardest to him and his mates is now gone too.

Is that a problem? Do you worry about pissing off Crosby and not look at making sure this team has a solid future? Are we fans of Crosby or the team, you can be both, but in the end, this is a franchise that will keep going after Sid and if a few moves that make Sid angry is what makes this franchise worth watching then so be it.

In the end, Letang re-signed, Malkin re-signed, those are his mates, so maybe he stays anyway.

 

[Malkinstheman]

My understanding is there is some pretty interesting stuff in the interview with Dubas.

Which interview?

 

[Pancakes]

In the end, Letang re-signed, Malkin re-signed, those are his mates, so maybe he stays anyway.

I think it would take a lot to piss Sid off enough for him to want to be traded. Not sure you need to trade Jake anyways.

Just fire Sullivan. If Sid complains, oh well. He'll get over it if the team starts winning again. And if they don't start winning again with a coaching change, then you know they're doomed anyways and then the core can re-evaluate whether they want to finish their careers here or get traded to contenders.

 

[Snooki Stackhouse]

I don't think you worry about pissing Sid off. He's getting older and they're losing. He'll be even more pissed by missing the playoffs again, which is where they're headed.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I'm convinced the core (Crosby, Malkin, Letang) has told ownership they have no desire to play for another coach. They're too old and too set in their ways to have another guy come in here and tell them what to do, especially if he's a ball buster. So we're going to be stuck with Sully until they retire.

 

[Andy99]

I'm convinced the core (Crosby, Malkin, Letang) has told ownership they have no desire to play for another coach. They're too old and too set in their ways to have another guy come in here and tell them what to do, especially if he's a ball buster. So we're going to be stuck with Sully until they retire.

I think a lot of the PP is that no one wants to stand in front of the net and get hit by shots…Sid and Geno will not be playing hard hockey anymore and we keep bringing in soft, vanilla and old players to play w them, who also don’t want to do this…this is why our finishing sucks as does the PP…it’s also why we needed to stop bringing in players 30+ …we need some young juice badly

 

[Andy99]

My understanding is there is some pretty interesting stuff in the interview with Dubas.

Really? Do you consider him being nowhere close to doing a single thing to help this team “interesting?”….because I don’t lol…he sounds like Sullivan

Kyle Dubas Talks Team Performance, Power Play Woes, and the Road Ahead | Pittsburgh Penguins

During Pittsburgh’s day off on Tuesday, Kyle Dubas sat down with Penguins broadcaster Josh Getzoff to discuss the state of the team for the biweekly GM Show. It was broadcast tonight on 105.9 the X, and will also air Wednesday at 6:30 PM on SportsNet Pittsburgh. The Penguins President of

www.nhl.com

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think you fire Sullivan before firing Rierden, but if firing Rierden doesn't solve the issues with this team, then you fire Sullivan.

I still believe that this team would be a good to great team if their powerplay was as good as the skill level it has. The team is generally good at 5v5, which is the main part of Sullivan's responsibilities.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I still believe that this team would be a good to great team if their powerplay was as good as the skill level it has. The team is generally good at 5v5, which is the main part of Sullivan's responsibilities.

I don't think the guys are all that skilled on the powerplay, honestly. 5-on-5 skill does not = 5-on-4 skill. The powerplay is more about system and cohesion anyway.

It may not be the right mindset for our guys to think "we're really underperforming our natural abilities" vs "are we doing the right things to be a league-average powerplay?" Because I'd start by getting to average before we shift mentality to temporarily-depressed-30%-unit.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think the guys are all that skilled on the powerplay, honestly. 5-on-5 skill does not = 5-on-4 skill. The powerplay is more about system and cohesion anyway.

It may not be the right mindset for our guys to think "we're really underperforming our natural abilities" vs "are we doing the right things to be a league-average powerplay?" Because I'd start by getting to average before we shift mentality to temporarily-depressed-30%-unit.

Eh they've had a top of the league powerplay in the past and they added Karlsson last year. I don't think the core guys are great powerplay guys but they're absolutely talented enough to compensate for that.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Eh they've had a top of the league powerplay in the past and they added Karlsson last year. I don't think the core guys are great powerplay guys but they're absolutely talented enough to compensate for that.

I'm second-guessing how much of any success post-2015 was due to Kessel and Hornqvist. Before then? It's 9 years ago. The game evolves. If we were great in 2013 that means very little to me heading into 2024.

Either way, get to 18-20% for a month. 1 in 5. Baby steps.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Reading that article by Michelle with Dubas...

I come away from it thinking Kyle Dubas is a dumber f*** than JR or Hextall.

I sincerely think this bloke is a f***ing dipshit.

I think it would take a lot to piss Sid off enough for him to want to be traded. Not sure you need to trade Jake anyways.

Just fire Sullivan. If Sid complains, oh well. He'll get over it if the team starts winning again. And if they don't start winning again with a coaching change, then you know they're doomed anyways and then the core can re-evaluate whether they want to finish their careers here or get traded to contenders.

And honestly if a player is pissed a team made a move to fix the future and to get some younger talent in, then I don't care what their name is, either you're there to win or you're there to be comfortable with friends and stay mediocre and want out when things don't go your way, in which case...bye, have fun with whatever other team.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Powerplay has:

*No one to retrieve dump and chase entries because of a lack of speed
*No one with the ability/willingness to cause havoc in front of the net
*A lack of decisive&correct decision-making up top
*No 85+ MPH wristers or 95+ MPH slappers consistently

These things above kind of read like "talents" to me. By lacking them, they lack a lot of talent.
They don't "deserve" to be at 25-30%. But they should be able to get to 20%, and if the coaching staff is out of ideas to get them there they gotta go.