Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Gurglesons]

Because Sullivan only holds some players accountable hence the irritation when he ignores shitty play elsewhere in the lineup. This is pretty clear, Emp and if you don't get that, I don't know what to tell you.

You obviously didn't play hockey.

 

[Andy99]

Drew is going to fix Geno’s line lol….by the same rationale, why not keep him with Sid if you think he did so well and play Rust on L2? Wanker…

 

[SomeDude]

Playing 20 minutes of club d3 hockey makes one’s opinion way more valuable. You can totally understand the inner thoughts of an NHL coaching staff.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I've said this before, but Sullivan usually doesn't punish guys for physical mistakes or lack of talent. He punishes for lack of effort or for repeated mental mistakes.

If a guy takes a penalty because he's in an intense puck battle and gets his stick tied up, Sullivan will accept that. But if he takes a penalty because he's lazily out of position and reaches with the stick or chases a hit, that's going to piss Sullivan off.

For all his faults, Carter isn't making mental mistakes. He's getting beat because he's slow and old. Hinostroza and POJ, meanwhile, lost spots because they were out of sorts positionally and/or stood around.

 

[pistolpete11]

If Carter is going to be in the lineup, I'd at least like to see him tried as the net front guy on PP1.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah Emp, I should have clearly anticipated something you hadn't yet written when I wrote my response. More fool me for not quoting THAT post that didn't exist yet.

 

[SomeDude]

If Carter is going to be in the lineup, I'd at least like to see him tried as the net front guy on PP1.

He was supposed to do that for PP2 and kept drifting to the off wall instead of staying in front of the net.

He is completely useless and we can only hope that he develops a sudden allergy to CCM

 

[HandshakeLine]

You obviously didn't play hockey.

Well, clearly not enough to understand the mind of high level coaches like Mike Sullivan, nor do I get how xGF is a good stat.

I studied the wrong things in clown university.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah Emp, I should have clearly anticipated something you hadn't yet written when I wrote my response. More fool me for not quoting THAT post that didn't exist yet.

I posted that before your reply

Anyway I don't know why I bother discussing anything Sullivan adjacent here, people just want to bitch about him and any discussion will turn into that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If DOC can keep his head on straight long enough to fill the ever so lofty play of somebody like Dominik Simon--a dude who keeps it very simple, digs for pucks, and has enough smarts/skill to get said pucks to Sid or Geno--then he can be serviceable as the muck work guy on a scoring line. I just don't know if he's smart or skilled enough to do that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If DOC can keep his head on straight long enough to fill the ever so lofty play of somebody like Dominik Simon--a dude who keeps it very simple, digs for pucks, and has enough smarts/skill to get said pucks to Sid or Geno--then he can be serviceable as the muck work guy on a scoring line. I just don't know if he's smart or skilled enough to do that.

I think O'Connor would be more like Dupuis-lite than Simon, but yeah.

O'Connor is a guy that confuses me because he has the tools of a top-9 forward but he just flat out doesn't produce enough to be comfortable with him as a top-9 forward.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think O'Connor would be more like Dupuis-lite than Simon, but yeah.

O'Connor is a guy that confuses me because he has the tools of a top-9 forward but he just flat out doesn't produce enough to be comfortable with him as a top-9 forward.

I know we all joke about Dupuis' hands, but the guy was still a 20g scorer. I don't know that prime Sid could turn DOC into a 20g guy tbh.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I honestly get the vibe that most people here have never played for an actual hockey team in their lives. What Hinostroza did on that play gets any depth player at any level scratched.

Would I prefer Hinostroza over Carter? Yeah, obviously. But I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and claim "I have no idea why Sullivan is scratching Hinostroza" when I can see easily why Sullivan is scratching Hinostroza.

I also don't understand why this place sometimes gets mad at Sullivan for not holding players accountable when they screw up, but also sometimes gets mad at Sullivan for holding players this place likes accountable.

And to me that is straight up bullshit and inappropriate coaching. Every player makes a mistake- even Sid Crosby.
Yes Hino is a depth player, but every line he gets placed on seems markedly better when he's on it.

Guess what? Whoever replaces Hino is going to make a mistake too. If this is the approach we won't be able to ice any bottom 6's. Play the dude until he runs of out "magic" then you can sit him for some flub like Harkins. But now Hino is gonna be in the doghouse bc he was 1 bite of a turd sandwich the entire team had a hand in.

Sully is an absolute dullard in a league full of similar idiotic HC's

I've said this before, but Sullivan usually doesn't punish guys for physical mistakes or lack of talent. He punishes for lack of effort or for repeated mental mistakes.

If a guy takes a penalty because he's in an intense puck battle and gets his stick tied up, Sullivan will accept that. But if he takes a penalty because he's lazily out of position and reaches with the stick or chases a hit, that's going to piss Sullivan off.

For all his faults, Carter isn't making mental mistakes. He's getting beat because he's slow and old. Hinostroza and POJ, meanwhile, lost spots because they were out of sorts positionally and/or stood around.

You're spot on here. Unfortunately that's a piss poor approach to coaching. By this logic, young players are not permitted to make mistakes and therefore won't ever grow.

 

[PensandCaps]

I know we all joke about Dupuis' hands, but the guy was still a 20g scorer. I don't know that prime Sid could turn DOC into a 20g guy tbh.

Dupuis had no hands, but his shot was way better than DOC lol.

DOC reminds me of McCann before he broke out more than anyone.

 

[PensandCaps]

I played ball hockey, so im an expert.

Sitting Hino for Bums like Carter and Harkins is asinine. What a moron Sullivan is.

 

[SomeDude]

I played ball hockey, so im an expert.

Sitting Hino for Bums like Carter and Harkins is asinine. What a moron Sullivan is.

I played NHL 94 on Sega Genesis so I know that it’s an amazing coaching decision to cry about the refs after a loss when your power play hasn’t scored since the Obama administration.

 

[PensandCaps]

I played NHL 94 on Sega Genesis so I know that it’s an amazing coaching decision to cry about the refs after a loss when your power play hasn’t scored since the Obama administration.

Is it 0 for there last 20 now? Wonder if we'll see a new year before they score again.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I posted that before your reply

Anyway I don't know why I bother discussing anything Sullivan adjacent here, people just want to bitch about him and any discussion will turn into that.

Dude you have to accept that sometimes people don't agree with your opinion. That's the first part to having a discussion. Acting like you're the voice of god from on high is not a discussion. I'm sorry we're not agreeing with you, but hey, feel free to cut bait and bail, because a discussion is clearly what you don't want here, you want affirmation. And I say this as a dude who likes sparring with you, y'know?

If you don't like people talking about the coach because they don't agree with you, then don't enter into discussions about the coach or whatever.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dude you have to accept that sometimes people don't agree with your opinion. That's the first part to having a discussion. Acting like you're the voice of god from on high is not a discussion. I'm sorry we're not agreeing with you, but hey, feel free to cut bait and bail, because a discussion is clearly what you don't want here, you want affirmation. And I say this as a dude who likes sparring with you, y'know?

If you don't like people talking about the coach because they don't agree with you, then don't enter into discussions about the coach or whatever.

Literally not what I said, but whatever.

Look, I hate Sullivan as the coach at this time, but it's so annoying that literally any discussion about anything turns into "this is why Mike Sullivan sucks". I said it in the salary cap thread and it's just as true here. It's not even that the complaints are wrong, it's just so tiring that any discussion on here constantly gets rerouted to "I hate Mike Sullivan".

It's not about a "difference of opinion", it's about any discussion on here always ending up being about Mike Sullivan.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I honestly get the vibe that most people here have never played for an actual hockey team in their lives. What Hinostroza did on that play gets any depth player at any level scratched.

Would I prefer Hinostroza over Carter? Yeah, obviously. But I'm not going to stick my head in the sand and claim "I have no idea why Sullivan is scratching Hinostroza" when I can see easily why Sullivan is scratching Hinostroza.

I also don't understand why this place sometimes gets mad at Sullivan for not holding players accountable when they screw up, but also sometimes gets mad at Sullivan for holding players this place likes accountable.

Do you really not understand this, Edawg?

The issue is that the leashes are completely different for different players. You're talking about one play.
Carter's been useless for a long time now. How many goals against were his fault? How much momentum has he crushed for his lines? How many games did he sit last year?
What about Rakell's leash? Nieto's? Acciari's?

Hinostroza put up 3 points already. He's played 74 minutes. Carter's squeezed out a faceoff assist in 127 minutes.

Why does only 1 defensive f***up take precedence? It's about winning, not filling in checkboxes with roles.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Do you really not understand this, Edawg?

The issue is that the leashes are completely different for different players. You're talking about one play.
Carter's been useless for a long time now. How many goals against were his fault? How much momentum has he crushed for his lines? How many games did he sit last year?
What about Rakell's leash? Nieto's? Acciari's?

Hinostroza put up 3 points already. He's played 74 minutes. Carter's squeezed out a faceoff assist in 127 minutes.

Why does only 1 defensive f***up take precedence? It's about winning, not filling in checkboxes with roles.

I am literally arguing in this thread that Sullivan should be punishing players more and neither Carter or Hinostroza should be playing due to their errors.

The problem with the statement of "he's punishing Hinostroza while he didn't punish Carter for the same thing" is "he didn't punish Carter", not "he's punishing Hinostroza". If you're going to complain about Sullivan not being consistent with how he keeps players accountable, at least take up the stance of "he should be punishing everyone more" instead of "he shouldn't be punishing Hinostroza because he didn't punish Carter".

Literally have said this multiple times.

Carter should not be playing another game for this team. If Sullivan is upset with Hinostroza for making a game breaking mistake, Hinostroza needs to go down to WBS and they need to call someone else up to keep Carter out of the lineup. No one wants Carter in the lineup at this point. Sullivan should be holding players accountable for mistakes and a lack of focus, but he also needs to do that while keeping Carter out of the lineup. He needs to do both of those.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Literally not what I said, but whatever.

Look, I hate Sullivan as the coach at this time, but it's so annoying that literally any discussion about anything turns into "this is why Mike Sullivan sucks". I said it in the salary cap thread and it's just as true here. It's not even that the complaints are wrong, it's just so tiring that any discussion on here constantly gets rerouted to "I hate Mike Sullivan".

It's not about a "difference of opinion", it's about any discussion on here always ending up being about Mike Sullivan.

I'm sorry we're not catering to your needs, perhaps you'd prefer a different establishment, Sheriff?

I mean, I'm gonna post what I'm gonna post, I'm sorry it's boring to you but that is literally not any of my concern or problem. Maybe try Reddit?

 

[Empoleon8771]

And to me that is straight up bullshit and inappropriate coaching. Every player makes a mistake- even Sid Crosby.
Yes Hino is a depth player, but every line he gets placed on seems markedly better when he's on it.

Guess what? Whoever replaces Hino is going to make a mistake too. If this is the approach we won't be able to ice any bottom 6's. Play the dude until he runs of out "magic" then you can sit him for some flub like Harkins. But now Hino is gonna be in the doghouse bc he was 1 bite of a turd sandwich the entire team had a hand in.

Sully is an absolute dullard in a league full of similar idiotic HC's

Hinostroza had 1 point in his last 7 games while having a -1 goal differential and the 4th worst xGF% on the team before he was scratched.

He was already not playing well before that Buffalo game and the error at the end of the Buffalo game was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Hinostroza's first 3 games where all good to great, but he completely fell off a cliff in his last 5 games. The Penguins were giving up more chances than generating chances with him on the ice, as evidence with the 12-31 scoring chance ratio and 5-10 high danger corsi ratio. The lines he was on were not playing well before he was scratched.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Literally not what I said, but whatever.

Look, I hate Sullivan as the coach at this time, but it's so annoying that literally any discussion about anything turns into "this is why Mike Sullivan sucks". I said it in the salary cap thread and it's just as true here. It's not even that the complaints are wrong, it's just so tiring that any discussion on here constantly gets rerouted to "I hate Mike Sullivan".

It's not about a "difference of opinion", it's about any discussion on here always ending up being about Mike Sullivan.

Yeah? You know what's far more tiring? You portraying yourself as being on the high ground and sounding pretentious and edgy all the time.
It's often not even hockey talk with you anymore. It's user talk.
You got some beef with users, so you mask it under the guise of being something Pens related.

Also, stop saying "literally" all the time. You're not a teenager who got brainwashed into this stupid f***ing pc trend. What the f***.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah? You know what's far more tiring? You portraying yourself as being on the high ground and sounding pretentious and edgy all the time.
It's often not even hockey talk with you anymore. It's user talk.
You got some beef with users, so you mask it under the guise of being something Pens related.

Also, stop saying "literally" all the time. You're not a teenager who got brainwashed into this stupid f***ing pc trend. What the f***.

Lmao whatever you say chief.

I like how saying "I like having discussions on here that don't always come back to Mike Sullivan being shit" makes me "pretentious and edgy". I also like how you say "it's not even hockey talk anymore" when I responded with the exact play that very likely got Hinostroza scratched and broke down how he screwed up on it, which is what started this discussion.

If I have beef with a user, I put them on ignore. That's literally what the ignore list is for. That seems like some hardcore projecting from you.

Oh no, I said "literally" again. Better call the police or something.