Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[ChaosAgent]

"This team has a scoring problem, but I liked Rust better when he was putting up 41 points in his first 112 career games"

 

[Ugene Magic]

Jake doesn’t want out …he also wants a pay day like Rust did and Rakell and he’s turning 30…it’s too bad we’re stuck with Rust and Rakell because that means it makes no sense to re-sign Jake…we’re only getting further away from a playoff team even with him…unless he’s signing for a big discount by the deadline, we need to trade him for the best return possible, which should be good but won’t be a huge overpay

But he's their only top six LW of worth, I don't see how they can part ways with him without a viable guy coming back. Unless they feel they can move forward with Rakell, Crosby, Rust. In the end they need a net impact driver, while Crosby is still there, Malkin just isn't that player anymore. He's had plenty of tries with guys like Smith, Rust and Rakell, and it just might be time in reducing him to 3rd line duties and matchups. I just don't get having to spend major assets and cap to prop up Geno, on the PP these guys should be lighting up the place, but they are not. It's the same old story and slow movement, hold onto pucks and nobody working to attack the middle or brake down the box.

Essentially, they need that new blood of an impact player. Not to play with Geno or even Sid, but one who can keep the pace/play moving in a positive light.

They need to make adjustments if they are to think about trying to challenge next season.

 

[BusinessGoose]

"This team has a scoring problem, but I liked Rust better when he was putting up 41 points in his first 112 career games"

True, but he also tried really hard on the PK back then

 

[pistolpete11]

But he's their only top six LW of worth, I don't see how they can part ways with him without a viable guy coming back. Unless they feel they can move forward with Rakell, Crosby, Rust. In the end they need a net impact driver, while Crosby is still there, Malkin just isn't that player anymore. He's had plenty of tries with guys like Smith, Rust and Rakell, and it just might be time in reducing him to 3rd line duties and matchups. I just don't get having to spend major assets and cap to prop up Geno, on the PP these guys should be lighting up the place, but they are not. It's the same old story and slow movement, hold onto pucks and nobody working to attack the middle or brake down the box.

Essentially, they need that new blood of an impact player. Not to play with Geno or even Sid, but one who can keep the pace/play moving in a positive light.

They need to make adjustments if they are to think about trying to challenge next season.

Malkin is not being propped up at all. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. Sullivan is sabotaging him by forcing jabronis like Phillips and White onto his line. And despite that and the PP not working, he's on pace for 65points. He's also a +4 despite not getting many +'s with empty nets and a whole lot of -'s when the Pens net is empty.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Malkin is not being propped up at all. In fact, I'd say it's the opposite. Sullivan is sabotaging him by forcing jabronis like Phillips and White onto his line. And despite that and the PP not working, he's on pace for 65points. He's also a +4 despite not getting many +'s with empty nets and a whole lot of -'s when the Pens net is empty.

But when he was propped up with Smith, Rakell and others there wasn't much difference.

I'm going to lean towards his style of play doesn't fit the times. East/West. A slow East/West.

 

[HandshakeLine]

When he first came up he scored some big goals but was a bottom sixer.

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If you'd rather he be a sparkplug 3rd liner that's fine, but I don't.

And when has he scored a big goal since? When has he played like a spark plug and not a slightly more budget version of a perimeter player? When has he played hard all season long instead of dogging it on PP1 and Sid's line for weeks on end when the mood hits?

I'm not asking Rust to be a 3rd liner (lol, besides, if he was a skilled top 6 guy, that's where he'd be) I'm asking him to be the player everyone claims he is instead of floating and taking months off because he's a tweener, not a legit top 6 guy.

Let's be honest, Rust is fine as a budget option for the top 6, no one should disagree. But acting like he's a bona-fide top flight guy like Jake is dumb as hell.

 

[ChaosAgent]

And when has he scored a big goal since? When has he played like a spark plug and not a slightly more budget version of a perimeter player? When has he played hard all season long instead of dogging it on PP1 and Sid's line for weeks on end when the mood hits?

I'm not asking Rust to be a 3rd liner (lol, besides, if he was a skilled top 6 guy, that's where he'd be) I'm asking him to be the player everyone claims he is instead of floating and taking months off because he's a tweener, not a legit top 6 guy.

Let's be honest, Rust is fine as a budget option for the top 6, no one should disagree. But acting like he's a bona-fide top flight guy like Jake is dumb as hell.

This is all qualitative, emotional stuff about how you don't like how he plays. Look at the numbers going back 5 years. He is a 1RW on this league signed for years cheaply, but with some aging concerns.

He is signed for the same price as Rakell. No GM in this league would take Rakell.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Rust as a 2/3RW at $3.5 is how winning teams plan things out

Rust as 1RW and $5mil is how the pens plan things out

But he's not really the issue

The issue is there's no one better on the team to push him down

 

[pistolpete11]

But when he was propped up with Smith, Rakell and others there wasn't much difference.

I'm going to lean towards his style of play doesn't fit the times. East/West. A slow East/West.

Smith, Rakell, and Rust aren't good enough to be propping anybody up. They are complimentary pieces in a top 6.

Despite that, despite the PP, despite Sullivan's best attempts to make his life miserable, he's having a solid year for a 2C and being paid like a 2C.

 

[Ugene Magic]

This is all qualitative, emotional stuff about how you don't like how he plays. Look at the numbers going back 5 years. He is a 1RW on this league signed for years cheaply, but with some aging concerns.

He is signed for the same price as Rakell. No GM in this league would take Rakell.

Majority of his signing worth was during shorten seasons fluffed with PP time.

 

[Andy99]

But he's their only top six LW of worth, I don't see how they can part ways with him without a viable guy coming back. Unless they feel they can move forward with Rakell, Crosby, Rust. In the end they need a net impact driver, while Crosby is still there, Malkin just isn't that player anymore. He's had plenty of tries with guys like Smith, Rust and Rakell, and it just might be time in reducing him to 3rd line duties and matchups. I just don't get having to spend major assets and cap to prop up Geno, on the PP these guys should be lighting up the place, but they are not. It's the same old story and slow movement, hold onto pucks and nobody working to attack the middle or brake down the box.

Essentially, they need that new blood of an impact player. Not to play with Geno or even Sid, but one who can keep the pace/play moving in a positive light.

They need to make adjustments if they are to think about trying to challenge next season.

I guess I just don’t see Jake as a net impact driver…I see him more as a really smart player with a high offensive IQ who gets into open spaces and has a crafty shot…also I don’t see us winning anything with him..he’s our best chip to pick up a possible younger impact player

 

[ChaosAgent]

Despite that, despite the PP, despite Sullivan's best attempts to make his life miserable, he's having a solid year for a 2C and being paid like a 2C.

I view Malkin as having a pretty good year as an above-average 2C. Parsing out blame on the PP is quite difficult. The most blameworthy parties are Sully/Reirden and Karlsson as the new addition. Crosby, Malkin and Jake also share blame (Crosby especially for all the slobbery he gets on his faceoffs seems to suck on them 5-on-4). I'd go maybe 40% coaching, 30% EK, 10% Sid and then the other 20% gets divvied up by the rest.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Majority of his signing worth was during shorten seasons fluffed with PP time.

Bryan Rust put up 107 points in 171 games not including the powerplay in the 3 years before signing that contract. Per 82 that is 51 points. This is not including the PP.

Is that bad or something?

It's fine to hate Rust stylistically or (more to the @BusinessGoose point) wish we had someone to push him down the lineup. But don't act like his contract is a hindrance. Half the NHL would take Rust at that contract if they had the chance. So if we move him, I expect something like a late 1st as compensation.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I guess I just don’t see Jake as a net impact driver…I see him more as a really smart player with a high offensive IQ who gets into open spaces and has a crafty shot…also I don’t see us winning anything with him..he’s our best chip to pick up a possible younger impact player

That younger impact player to play with whom? Especially if Crosby re-signs.

Jake's a PPG player, whomever they bring in is not going to make up for that. I still see next year as the target to challenge for the playoffs. All the purposed returns for Jake are putrid.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I guess I just don’t see Jake as a net impact driver…I see him more as a really smart player with a high offensive IQ who gets into open spaces and has a crafty shot…also I don’t see us winning anything with him..he’s our best chip to pick up a possible younger impact player

I think you're underselling his skill and vision quite a bit. He's not a dynamic skater but his ability to control the puck cleanly and especially his hand-eye is elite.

I'd still move him as noted. I think he just gets characterized as a Crosby passenger with a great hockey IQ a bit too much and it undersells his skill.

 

[HandshakeLine]

This is all qualitative, emotional stuff about how you don't like how he plays. Look at the numbers going back 5 years. He is a 1RW on this league signed for years cheaply, but with some aging concerns.

He is signed for the same price as Rakell. No GM in this league would take Rakell.

I never pretended it wasn't, dude. I don't like floaty soft perimeter players that everyone talks up as "heart and soul" guys. So, I'd like to take advantage of the fact that GMs are idiots and sell high on Rust and I've been angling to do so for years.

Sorry if I'm a troglodyte for not appreciating the game the right way, or whatever, but f*** the numbers.

If there's one consistency to my posting (besides generally not posting seriously) it's that I want to trade Bryan Rust.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Bryan Rust put up 107 points in 171 games not including the powerplay in the 3 years before signing that contract. Per 82 that is 51 points. This is not including the PP.

Is that bad or something?

It's fine to hate Rust stylistically or (more to the @BusinessGoose point) wish we had someone to push him down the lineup. But don't act like his contract is a hindrance. Half the NHL would take Rust at that contract if they had the chance. So if we move him, I expect something like a late 1st as compensation.

Like I said, he got propped up during shorten seasons and while on the PP. Back in the day Dupuis got propped up during a shorten season. Shorten seasons are not, or should be used to hand out contracts, and then also NMC's

 

[Andy99]

That younger impact player to play with whom? Especially if Crosby re-signs.

Jake's a PPG player, whomever they bring in is not going to make up for that. I still see next year as the target to challenge for the playoffs. All the purposed returns for Jake are putrid.

Use the assets from Jake to trade for a 23 or under player…that’s GM’s job lol…we’re not winning anything with Jake’s production right now

 

[Ugene Magic]

Use the assets from Jake to trade for a 23 or under player…that’s GM’s job lol…we’re not winning anything with Jake’s production right now

It's not Jake's production why they are losing, it is the depth which the GM propped up the rest of the team with.

Make better signings and trades.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I never pretended it wasn't, dude. I don't like floaty soft perimeter players that everyone talks up as "heart and soul" guys. So, I'd like to take advantage of the fact that GMs are idiots and sell high on Rust and I've been angling to do so for years.

Sorry if I'm a troglodyte for not appreciating the game the right way, or whatever, but f*** the numbers.

If there's one consistency to my posting (besides generally not posting seriously) it's that I want to trade Bryan Rust.

The numbers look goals and assists. Got it. But you hate defensive hockey.

It would be nice if they sold Rust for a 1st coming back. No disagreement there.

 

[pistolpete11]

I view Malkin as having a pretty good year as an above-average 2C. Parsing out blame on the PP is quite difficult. The most blameworthy parties are Sully/Reirden and Karlsson as the new addition. Crosby, Malkin and Jake also share blame (Crosby especially for all the slobbery he gets on his faceoffs seems to suck on them 5-on-4). I'd go maybe 40% coaching, 30% EK, 10% Sid and then the other 20% gets divvied up by the rest.

I don't absolve any player, including Malkin, for the issues on the PP, but I put much more of the blame on the coaches. Regardless of who is out there, they look disjointed without a plan of what they are trying to do. Any time they do look like they are trying to set something up, it's tic-tac-toe plays without any traffic in front of the net.

 

[Ulf5]

Use the assets from Jake to trade for a 23 or under player…that’s GM’s job lol…we’re not winning anything with Jake’s production right now.

Just get a young player back in a Jake trade.
I'm sure Florida still has a bitter taste in their mouths after last season. EF says they've inquired about Jake. Lundell and a 1st for Jake.

 

[Andy99]

Just get a young player back in a Jake trade.
I'm sure Florida still has a bitter taste in their mouths after last season. EF says they've inquired about Jake. Lundell and a 1st for Jake.

Lundell isn’t good enough imo…he’s a 3C…but if we could do Jarvis straight up…

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't absolve any player, including Malkin, for the issues on the PP, but I put much more of the blame on the coaches. Regardless of who is out there, they look disjointed without a plan of what they are trying to do. Any time they do look like they are trying to set something up, it's tic-tac-toe plays without any traffic in front of the net.

I do blame Karlsson a lot. SJS wasn't a good PP team for years and when you see his random passes to nowhere and recurring failed entries I can see why.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The numbers look goals and assists. Got it. But you hate defensive hockey.

It would be nice if they sold Rust for a 1st coming back. No disagreement there.

Yeah, that's exactly it. You cracked the case Phoenix Wright.