Andy99
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2017
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- 34,398
Somehow Heiden has 11 goals on Boston’s third line playing with Trent Frederic, more goals than anyone playing on our third line…
Minnesota don't have future HoF'ers that have carried the franchise on their backs for the better part of 20 years and delivered 3 Cups.Yeah that's the Minnesota Wild mindset. We've seen where that leads.
I'm not saying it's Cup or bust, but you have to at least put yourself in a position where you have a legitimate chance to win it all, and aren't counting on a Cinderella run every year.
I would happily sacrifice 5+ years to get the team to that point. That would be taking things seriously, unlike whatever the hell this is.
Rierden.Could you imagine if the Pens fired Sullivan and replaced him with another doofus like Johnston, though?
Yes, and I'm explaining why they never have have enough quality at any given time. They don't start from the ground up. They consistently are ok with treading water.Minnesota don't have future HoF'ers that have carried the franchise on their backs for the better part of 20 years and delivered 3 Cups.
I don’t think you get enough back in return to make it worth it. Before the new contracts that probably wouldve been the prudent thing to do. Maybe could’ve squeezed 5–6 1st round picks out of them and really went for a hard rebuild. I doubt our scouting would’ve pulled off anything good anyway though lol.Yes, and I'm explaining why they never have have enough quality at any given time. They don't start from the ground up. They consistently are ok with treading water.
They're unwilling to do what's necessary.
What you're suggesting is more of that. That's wasting time. You're not gonna win that way. You can't get enough quality at reasonable cap hits through free agency and trade to fix this to the point where you're legit contenders.
Those are years that would be better spent accumulating picks.
I love Sid and Geno, but not so much that I think it's okay to just throw away like 5 years of the organization to satisfy their feelings. I'm a Penguins fan first and foremost, not a core 3 fan.
Agreed, it's not optimal timing. But any asset accumulation right now is a net positive compared to what they're doing. It's the only viable, logical option.I don’t think you get enough back in return to make it worth it. Before the new contracts that probably wouldve been the prudent thing to do. Maybe could’ve squeezed 5–6 1st round picks out of them and really went for a hard rebuild. I doubt our scouting would’ve pulled off anything good anyway though lol.
As I said before.....depends what your goals are.Yes, and I'm explaining why they never have have enough quality at any given time. They don't start from the ground up. They consistently are ok with treading water.
They're unwilling to do what's necessary.
What you're suggesting is more of that. That's wasting time. You're not gonna win that way. You can't get enough quality at reasonable cap hits through free agency and trade to fix this to the point where you're legit contenders.
Those are years that would be better spent accumulating picks.
I love Sid and Geno, but not so much that I think it's okay to just throw away like 5 years of the organization to satisfy their feelings. I'm a Penguins fan first and foremost, not a core 3 fan.
I really don't think it's unrealistic to sell this deadline, retool in the offseason, get younger, and still try to compete with this core next year.
Here's my stab at it. We can bicker about the specifics if you want , but it's just a framework
This deadline
Jake (50%) + Noel 'The Key' Acciari for Foegele, Beau Akey, 2024 1st round pick and 2025 2nd round pick - Changed the proposal from a 3rd to a 2nd since Foegele is a UFA, but I added Acciari, so I think that's a fair trade off. If they can't take on Acciari for cap reasons, they can send us Janmark. Basically equivalent players, but Janmark is a UFA and clears Acciari from the Pens books for next year. - Have a handshake agreement to re-sign Jake, that's important.
Smith to Vegas for our 3rd back
Ned for a pick
Maybe some team is desperate for some veteran leadership, Carter (50%) for a 4th.
This is not a lot of moves, so it's very reasonable, doesn't affect next year's team much, and gets us some picks. Could also trade Eller and probably get a 2nd or 3rd, but I would like him back next year.
Next Year
First, fire Sullivan. Obviously.
1. Re-sign Jake as agreed ($9M)
2. Re-sign Foegele ($3M, just using him as an example since he's being discussed, but I do like the physicality and goal scoring potential)
3. Sign MAF ($1M, should be cheap as he's 40 years old and the reunion angle, no controversy with Yinzer Nation who should be starting at this point and they'll just be happy to see him smiling on the bench, and his stats don't look too bad in comparison to Gus, so it's likely the Wild just suck defensively).
4. Sign all the RFA to ~900k bridge deals. Puusy, Poulin, Bemstrom, POJ, Ty Smith
Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
XXX - Malkin - Puusy
DOC - Poulin - Rakell
Bemstrom - Eller - Foegele
Nieto-Poolparty
Petts - Letang
Graves - Karlsson
POJ - Ludvig
Smith
Jarry
MAF
With a $87.7M cap, this team would have $6.8M to fill the XXX. Or you could not sign Foegele and have nearly $10M in cap to address whatever else you want. Or you could look to trade Rakell and have a boatload of cap space.
I think that team potentially has a lot of depth and interchangeability. Puusy falters or you can't find anyone to fill the XXX? You have Rakell and DOC you could bump up. Poulin isn't quite ready, you can bump Eller up. Bemstrom, Nieto, and Poolparty are kind of interchangeable. POJ or Ludvig falter you have Ty Smith who has shown he can play both sides.
And you're giving more opportunity to younger guys while still giving the core a chance. That's my ultimate goal for next year (assuming the coach is taken care of).
If things go south again next year, you can trade Petts, Eller, Rakell, Rust after the season, Karlsson will probably want out, Graves if you can, whoever XXX is, etc. Eventually Jake will probably want out too. So in the end you're still starting the rebuild, just a little bit later, but at least you gave the core 1 more chance with a new coach.
And if it works and they make the playoffs, great.
A final retool is reasonable, Carter comes off the books and unloading aged vets in Smith and who knows if Crosby will be comfortable losing Jake. Unless Jake wants out I don't see them trading him without a huge overpay they can't refuse. Getting younger is key.It IS a super long shot, but I don't think trying to do a retool this year is a bad thing. It is the last reasonable shot this team has at doing anything more than disappointing us in the regular season, for sure. It probably won't do anything for the post season except get us into the dance, but you never know.
A final retool is reasonable, Carter comes off the books and unloading aged vets in Smith and who knows if Crosby will be comfortable losing Jake. Unless Jake wants out I don't see them trading him without a huge overpay they can't refuse. Getting younger is key.
I think there are 2 important points that kind of determine someone's views on what direction to go.It IS a super long shot, but I don't think trying to do a retool this year is a bad thing. It is the last reasonable shot this team has at doing anything more than disappointing us in the regular season, for sure. It probably won't do anything for the post season except get us into the dance, but you never know.
If Jake wants to come back, he should still do the team a solid and accept a trade now and re-sign during FA. I mean, it's at worst a 3-4 month assignment, probably less.Jake doesn’t want out …he also wants a pay day like Rust did and Rakell and he’s turning 30…it’s too bad we’re stuck with Rust and Rakell because that means it makes no sense to re-sign Jake…we’re only getting further away from a playoff team even with him…unless he’s signing for a big discount by the deadline, we need to trade him for the best return possible, which should be good but won’t be a huge overpay
Jake doesn’t want out …he also wants a pay day like Rust did and Rakell and he’s turning 30…it’s too bad we’re stuck with Rust and Rakell because that means it makes no sense to re-sign Jake…we’re only getting further away from a playoff team even with him…unless he’s signing for a big discount by the deadline, we need to trade him for the best return possible, which should be good but won’t be a huge overpay
Rust took a discount to stay (in exchange for trade protection). Look at his production before he signed that deal.
Rakell took market value.
Rust took a discount to stay (in exchange for trade protection). Look at his production before he signed that deal.
Rakell took market value.
Neither was worth re-signing at their ages…we had a perfect opportunity at those times to get a lot younger on the wings and we didn’t …we basically gave up Sid and G’s last chances at a Cup imo re-signing both those guys…that and Matt Murray’s issues
This board is comical about Rust's external value and perception. Has been for years.
Again, the board rightly hates Sullivan. Sullivan loves Rust, so the board projects onto Rust.
Rust would fetch significant value if he waived his NTC
.29- .35Rust took a discount to stay (in exchange for trade protection). Look at his production before he signed that deal.
Rakell took market value.
Disagree…he’ll be 32 in May, is a player who’s often injured (was again this season), relies on his speed and has 4 more years on his contract. Even if he waived tomorrow, he’s not fetching a first or a top prospect…if he’s still aging well in a couple seasons, he could fetch something good but too much time on his deal now
??????????
Who would've replaced them? Name names. This is nonsense.
Rust is okay, but I think most people wrongly expect him to play like he did when he first made the NHL and he really hasn't been that kind of player for 5 or 6 years now. That's the big source of the debate IMO.This board is comical about Rust's external value and perception. Has been for years.
Again, the board rightly hates Sullivan. Sullivan loves Rust, so the board projects onto Rust.
Rust would fetch significant value if he waived his NTC
Andy, just no. Rust is seen as a decent 1st line RW in this league and he signed for $5.2m AAV which is a pittance. Rust's productivity over years underscores this.
People on this board just despise him.
Rust is okay, but I think most people wrongly expect him to play like he did when he first made the NHL and he really hasn't been that kind of player for 5 or 6 years now. That's the big source of the debate IMO.
I've made peace with Rust being a mediocre top 6 supporting wing that has an outsized reputation, but I just wish we could leverage that for once instead of paying for it.