Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Tender Rip]

Regardless, I don't think an end of the year conversation to assess the future is all that outlandish.

Obviously an end of the year conversation with the coach is entirely natural. What is absurd is that he is still the coach now, more so if he will still be the coach at that time.
Five years of early exits (frequently embarrassing) with a team that was a consistent dark horse/contender/all in. Then missed the playoffs for the first time in 17 years with a whimper of a finish, now having less of a shot this season despite aggressive moves by the incoming GM, after having had virtually no injuries to key players and getting better goal tending than we've had for many years.

He will always have a great place in Pens history for those early years, but they are well and truly gone now. Every day I wake up and check if he has been canned as one of my first internet actions, and every day I wonder why the hell not.

 

[edog37]

When a few guys look shit, it's on the players. When everyone looks shit, it's on the coach.

We're done with Sid and Geno being able to will the team to 100 points no matter who they play with, yeah, but that doesn't mean we couldn't play way better and more entertaining with another coach. People thought we were done in 2014-15 with MJ coaching too, but look how that turned around. Not saying we're a real contender, but we should at least have a competent offensive team that can put away powerplay goals and look like they care most nights.

What if we don’t? Because the evidence strongly supports my argument.

 

[Zero Pucks]

These Dubas press conferences are the most pointless things I've ever watched.

 

[cygnus47]

What if we don’t? Because the evidence strongly supports my argument.

Just saying the word evidence doesn't mean you have evidence. What evidence?

But also, even if we're worse, the only harm done is that FSG owes Sully money until he gets hired again. We already suck and have underperformed since 2018.

 

[farscape1]

Philly won so they have 67 points to our 56 points. 8 points behind the Wings but hey coach of the year in Sully.

 

[PensPlz]

Can the theme of this sub be a spoof on the "Your Cousin From Boston" Sam Adam beer commercials, but the cousin being Mike Sullivan...?

 

[FreeBobbyFarnham]

Just went through a bunch of tweets about the press conference and it seems to me like Dubas doesn't have a plan. He's all over the place. If I correctly read between the lines, it sounds like he's looking for a quick retool and if that's the case he should hold on to players like Jake, instead of turning them into prospects that won't be as good and probably won't be getting a fair chance anyway (like Poulin).

Also, I don't want to imagine what this team will look like without Jake. We can't buy a goal, but let's trade one of the few that can. If we're not fully embracing a rebuild then we shouldn't be trading top players for lottery tickets.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Just went through a bunch of tweets about the press conference and it seems to me like Dubas doesn't have a plan. He's all over the place. If I correctly read between the lines, it sounds like he's looking for a quick retool and if that's the case he should hold on to players like Jake, instead of turning them into prospects that won't be as good and probably won't be getting a fair chance anyway (like Poulin).

Also, I don't want to imagine what this team will look like without Jake. We can't buy a goal, but let's trade one of the few that can. If we're not fully embracing a rebuild then we shouldn't be trading top players for lottery tickets.

I feel like its really hard to make a game plan when the coach is the problem and essentially tanks anything you get and hope for him to use and utilize from the farm and you're all seeing why JR left, Hextall failed, and why Dubas is failing now.

It's gotten very comical at this stage.



FSG:

So if we look at how they run the Red Sox, it's very weird how they apparently have decided to run the Penguins. I mean they have literally fired a bloke a year after winning the world series for their managers.

Also comical is they fire a coach, the new coach comes in and wins a world series (oh hey, literally also a Penguins pattern, but lets keep this wanker that's long in the tooth even longer!), some hang on to win another one a couple of years later and then maybe stay a max of 4 seasons after the 2nd one (2 Managers) or fired after a season (1 Manager) and then theres Cora and the whole sitting out a year and then coming back the next year.

But with Sullivan, he won a cup 2015-16, then 2016-17 and from 2017-2018 to now he has 1 playoff series win, multiple first round exits and will miss the playoffs 3x (including the play in series). Their entire pattern is off whack for their North American Sports ownership. That's how highly they think of this wankbucket.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

I asked this at the beginning of this thread but people like to dodge it, so I’ll ask again— do you like watching this team and are you excited to watch it largely as is for the next 5 years? Because that’s what Dubas was telling you here.

Not this season. I guess the only reason for me not to begin the boycott is Sid. He’s the only thing worth watching on this consistently inconsistent team.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not this season. I guess the only reason for me not to begin the boycott is Sid. He’s the only thing worth watching on this consistently inconsistent team.

Sid's one of the reasons I get frustrated watching this team even more because they're wasting him still performing at a high level. It's painful watching his play go to waste.

I really wish he had a desire to win another Cup above his desire to be a Penguin for life because I'd rather see him play for a team like Colorado and chase a 4th Cup rather than see him waste his final 3 or 4 seasons in this league playing for a non-playoff team.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You don't have annual reviews with your boss?

Those sessions can sometimes change a person's job status. Hell, it happened with Dubas last year. His conversations with Shanahan and MLSE completely altered his future, as they chose not to extend his contract and he landed with the Penguins. If those conversations go differently, maybe Dubas stays in Toronto.

If Sullivan is combative or refuses to change anything during that conversation, that probably increases the odds of him being canned. If he's willing to change various things, it might increase the odds of him staying.

I'm not sure if you're just so dug in with your pro Sullivan thing that you won't back down or if you truly believe this, but the bolded is absolutely hilarious to even think would happen.

Sullivan's had MULTIPLE shit results to change things and we're going on MULTIPLE years of him doing the exact same thing because he believes his way is the right way.

This idea that THIS time Sullivan's willing to change is laughable. If Dubas believes that's the case, then Dubas is a moron.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Sid's one of the reasons I get frustrated watching this team even more because they're wasting him still performing at a high level. It's painful watching his play go to waste.

I really wish he had a desire to win another Cup above his desire to be a Penguin for life because I'd rather see him play for a team like Colorado and chase a 4th Cup rather than see him waste his final 3 or 4 seasons in this league playing for a non-playoff team.

Seeing him traded to a contender would actually get me excited for the rest of the season.

 

[sxvnert]

I'm not sure if you're just so dug in with your pro Sullivan thing that you won't back down or if you truly believe this, but the bolded is absolutely hilarious to even think would happen.

Sullivan's had MULTIPLE shit results to change things and we're going on MULTIPLE years of him doing the exact same thing because he believes his way is the right way.

This idea that THIS time Sullivan's willing to change is laughable. If Dubas believes that's the case, then Dubas is a moron.

Dubas is just waiting for the right time to fire Sully and hire Keefe. Kyle is doing everything possible to ensure the fan base demands a Sully firing while keeping his hands clean. Kyle HATES having a coach who has more clout than he does and isn't under his complete control.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Lol Colin White waived. But Harkins isn't.

Sullivan has given more chances to trash like White and Harkins than Jesse Puljujarvi.

No one should be shocked at this, just angry.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Sid's one of the reasons I get frustrated watching this team even more because they're wasting him still performing at a high level. It's painful watching his play go to waste.

I really wish he had a desire to win another Cup above his desire to be a Penguin for life because I'd rather see him play for a team like Colorado and chase a 4th Cup rather than see him waste his final 3 or 4 seasons in this league playing for a non-playoff team.

My frustration is seeing Malkin deteriorate with his own self confidence by not being able to make things work with bottom 6 wingers like it's his fault two offensively anaemic wingers can't finish consistently at all.

The amount of disrespect the Penguins media and a lot of fans throw his way is just ridiculous.

In regards to the Pens HHOF'ers being disrespected, this one is far more egregious than Sid being on a shit team due to a coach he absolutely loves that also happens to be the biggest thing wrong with this team for a while now.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'm not sure if you're just so dug in with your pro Sullivan thing that you won't back down or if you truly believe this, but the bolded is absolutely hilarious to even think would happen.

Sullivan's had MULTIPLE shit results to change things and we're going on MULTIPLE years of him doing the exact same thing because he believes his way is the right way.

This idea that THIS time Sullivan's willing to change is laughable. If Dubas believes that's the case, then Dubas is a moron.

Sullivan hasn't had his job status questioned before. He also had some believable excuses until the last two years.

By all accounts, the 2018-19 team that was swept by the Isles had some issues. Brassard, the end of Kessel, Rutherford losing his mind about Oleksiak getting pummeled, Hagelin being traded, etc.

Sullivan can blame the disjointed bubble for 2019-20 and then goaltending for the exits versus the Isles and Rangers in 2021 and 2022.

You may not agree, but these are excuses that people will accept, especially if they already think highly of Sullivan.

Now, though? He's getting direct heat. He has a GM with more job security than he does. And the core isn't capable of rescuing him anymore.

So, yeah, the ingredients are there to finally force him to adapt. Maybe he won't go along with it. If you believe he's an asset, you at least present him with the opportunity to change. If he doesn't take it, that's on him and you move on.

Frankly, I'm now at the point where I think it would be beneficial to clean house at the end of the year, from the coaching staff to the WBS staff to the player development staff. Start fresh. I liked Dubas' idea of having the core be mentors to a younger team. They should be the only remaining threads from the last few years.

 

[Wattsburgh]

Does anyone have a link showing proof that Crosby wants Sullivan as Head Coach because I don’t understand why A. They aren’t following the approach of firing a Head Coach in season to go on and win the Cup the same year and B. His teams haven’t had any desire since losing to Washington in year three. Except for the Quarter Finals vs Rangers where it looked like the Penguins actually cared until the refs picked NYR on the betting slip, Sullivan’s teams have been crap. I’m confused. Must be Sid.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Guys, I'm sure this Titanic can pull itself out of its downward sinking motion, better wait a few more hours to be sure. Probably want to get rid of the life rafts too because that'll force the ship to adapt.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You’re underwhelmed? He traded for Karlsson & got rid of a bunch of lousy contracts Hextall saddled us with. Might want to adjust your expectations there a bit. There’s been exactly two trades made this calendar year.

That was in August. It's February.
I don't care what other GMs are doing. His job is to identify problems and fix the team. He's not doing that. He's letting Sully have his way, instead of stepping in and preventing this.
Reirden should not be here anymore. Sullivan should not be here anymore.
Depth 5v5 scoring pieces are needed, since the team can't score. Adjustments to the Power Play are very clearly needed.
He is just waiting until the deadline. It'll be too late by then. Actually it's already late too now, thanks to his inaction, in large part.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If I went into my annual review after 2 years of doing no successful work. I wouldn’t be asked to come back.

Apparently jobs work differently in the desert.

 

[canadianguy77]

Does anyone have a link showing proof that Crosby wants Sullivan as Head Coach because I don’t understand why A. They aren’t following the approach of firing a Head Coach in season to go on and win the Cup the same year and B. His teams haven’t had any desire since losing to Washington in year three. Except for the Quarter Finals vs Rangers where it looked like the Penguins actually cared until the refs picked NYR on the betting slip, Sullivan’s teams have been crap. I’m confused. Must be Sid.

People on here pretending to know what his innermost thoughts are make me laugh. Half the board wants him to quit on the coach or stage a mutiny. It’s probably the same half who would rip him if he actually did. He can’t win.

 

[HandshakeLine]

 

[edog37]

Just saying the word evidence doesn't mean you have evidence. What evidence?

But also, even if we're worse, the only harm done is that FSG owes Sully money until he gets hired again. We already suck and have underperformed since 2018.

The evidence being that the core is in their mid to late 30s & can’t play the type of game they want to anymore. The evidence the team’s window closed in 2018 & is done winning Cups.

People need to let go of the pipe dream this team is still a contender. It isn’t. Changing out a coach isn’t going to do anything to alter that basic fact. They need a complete rebuild. That needs to be done intelligently. Not knee jerk reaction.

Here’s the thing, FSG still needs to sell tickets. There’s a strong chance they’ll keep the core together as Dubas stated & let the aging process make the team worse organically so they can get higher draft picks. Then you bring in higher level talent to take over as the core retires. They’ll sell nostalgia while the rebuild occurs. It’s a soft landing rebuild but still the same result. Perhaps a coaching change occurs at some point, but it won’t be done as a band aid to appease impatient fans.

That was in August. It's February.
I don't care what other GMs are doing. His job is to identify problems and fix the team. He's not doing that. He's letting Sully have his way, instead of stepping in and preventing this.
Reirden should not be here anymore. Sullivan should not be here anymore.
Depth 5v5 scoring pieces are needed, since the team can't score. Adjustments to the Power Play are very clearly needed.
He is just waiting until the deadline. It'll be too late by then. Actually it's already late too now, thanks to his inaction, in large part.

You clearly didn’t read my post. There hasn’t been activity because teams don’t want to make trades. Do you think Dubas can just snap his fingers & a trade gets done?

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's a fact that trading is the only way to move players.

 

[Josey Wales]

The evidence being that the core is in their mid to late 30s & can’t play the type of game they want to anymore. The evidence the team’s window closed in 2018 & is done winning Cups.

People need to let go of the pipe dream this team is still a contender. It isn’t. Changing out a coach isn’t going to do anything to alter that basic fact. They need a complete rebuild. That needs to be done intelligently. Not knee jerk reaction.

Here’s the thing, FSG still needs to sell tickets. There’s a strong chance they’ll keep the core together as Dubas stated & let the aging process make the team worse organically so they can get higher draft picks. Then you bring in higher level talent to take over as the core retires. They’ll sell nostalgia while the rebuild occurs. It’s a soft landing rebuild but still the same result. Perhaps a coaching change occurs at some point, but it won’t be done as a band aid to appease impatient fans.


You clearly didn’t read my post. There hasn’t been activity because teams don’t want to make trades. Do you think Dubas can just snap his fingers & a trade gets done?

They are in Denial that The Run is over & they lash out at Sullivan & CS & now Dubas & FSG