Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Dennis Reynolds]

Yeah, at least JR was proactive and shook things up when they weren't working. He'd retool in-season usually to beneficial results. Neither of RH or KD have really done that.

I personally think a good GM should have a couple December/January trades when things aren't working. In general, trading mid-season has become less common, and I think it's to the detriment of the game. Making moves only at the deadline or offseason basically throws in the flag and says "this is who we are this season." There's nowhere near the movement to try to swing momentum in your organization's favor.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

No.

That's what I thought.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's what I thought.

Why would there be?

He sat around and did nothing all year. Had an awful summer and is now going to trade Jake Guentzel before firing our coach.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Me. I want to watch Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin play playoff hockey. Hextall did that twice. Dubas has us performing worse than we ever had and it was predictable from July 1st.

Then you better hope they get traded to playoff teams cuz the handiwork of JR, Hextall, Sullivan and Dubas has cemented that this team's probably not making the playoffs until like 2035.

 

[Gurglesons]

Then you better hope they get traded to playoff teams cuz the handiwork of JR, Hextall, Sullivan and Dubas has cemented that this team's probably not making the playoffs until like 2035.

This team could've easily made the playoffs this year with a GM who actually had a pair of balls.

Instead we are doing timid lame ass Canadian franchise bullshit like signing Jarry and Graves to 5+ year contracts.

 

[Come on]

This team could've easily made the playoffs this year with a GM who actually had a pair of balls.

Instead we are doing timid lame ass Canadian franchise bullshit like signing Jarry and Graves to 5+ year contracts.

Agreed

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

This team could've easily made the playoffs this year with a GM who actually had a pair of balls.

Maybe. But no GM was coming in, firing Sullivan and reconfiguring a roster that needed like 6 separate moves. Oh well. We get to miss out on the week of playoff hockey we've all become accustom to since Sully really got rooted into the franchise. Shame.

 

[Gurglesons]

Maybe. But no GM was coming in, firing Sullivan and reconfiguring a roster that needed like 6 separate moves. Oh well. We get to miss out on the week of playoff hockey we've all become accustom to since Sully really got rooted into the franchise. Shame.

Didn't really need 6 separate moves. Just needed creative solutions and a GM willing to go all in.

Instead we picked Yager for reasons that are unexplainable. That 1st could've brought us HUGE returns given the draft it was in and the fact not a single team moved a 1st. Hell you could've probably just moved down and got a decent player out of it.

We then acquired Smith. Good move, but obviously completely stupid in retrospect considering they thought Smith would be a top six forward here helping to carry Malkin's line.

UFA is a disaster we don't need to revisit. And then the EK trade.

It would've been so easy for Dubas to build a good team if he just was creative, patient, and took chances on young players. Instead he trade for a bunch of 30+ year olds, signed a bunch of 30+ year olds and now we should give him a chance because "he wants to get younger"?

 

[PensPlz]

I'm just thinking here.... Toronto barely won a single playoff series with Kyle Dubas at the helm... and that was with a lot of star players in their primes, including (arguably) a generational talent in Mathews...

So is anyone really confident that the Penguins will win a playoff series with Kyle Dubas here?

I don't think the Penguins win a playoff series with Kyle Dubas here. I know for a fact the Steelers won't win a playoff game with Headcoach Mike Tomlin. I don't think I'll ever watch a Pirates game again.

Idk. Maybe I should just pack up my family and move cities.

 

[Turin]

I hope 90% of that presser was PR speak.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Why would there be?

He sat around and did nothing all year. Had an awful summer and is now going to trade Jake Guentzel before firing our coach.

You never wanted him in the first place, so even if he works magic, it's obvious you'll find something that you don't like.

 

[Ryder71]

This team could've easily made the playoffs this year with a GM who actually had a pair of balls.

Instead we are doing timid lame ass Canadian franchise bullshit like signing Jarry and Graves to 5+ year contracts.

No coach would have prevented this debacle. They've gotten stale and aged out. It's no more complicated than that.

 

[eXile3]

Yes. Well... more specifically coaches wetting themselves over HAVING to have them.

I'm here to tell you that anyone can PK. It's not some sacred lost art than only a handful of elite specialists in the league are capable of. It's an excuse to get ham and eggers on the team that reminds the coach of himself.

Oh I completely agree. I thought I was contrarian in that aspect.

 

[Turin]

No coach would have prevented this debacle. They've gotten stale and aged out. It's no more complicate than that.

Age doesn't affect the powerplay like that when all those players are still good players. It's a psychological and tactical thing, which is entirely the coaching staffs purview.

 

[Ryder71]

You never wanted him in the first place, so even if he works magic, it's obvious you'll find something that you don't like.

Even if they get a haul this TDL it won't be good enough for some. It will be for me! But some can't accept the players are too old.

Age doesn't affect the powerplay like that when all those players are still good players. It's a psychological and tactical thing, which is entirely the coaching staffs purview.

No it isn't, those Players refuse to shoot, or they play catch on the perimeter, do you really think the coaches are telling them to play that way? Are you sure?

 

[Malkinstheman]

I don't know, other than Graves I don't really have a problem with what Dubas did during the summer. Acquiring a game breaker like EK gave him alot of points for me. The team he assembled should have been a wild card team at the worst.

I place the blame for this season solely on Sullivan. Dude is a moron mascarading as a genius. Put anyone else in his place and the vibe about the team is totally different.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Oh I completely agree. I thought I was contrarian in that aspect.

We are for the most part.

But take solace in the fact that the three loudest groups to advocate for specialized PKers are NHL coaches, armchair coach fans and local media dorks like Josh Yohe.

I will allow you to draw your own conclusions over a common trait shared among all of them.

 

[Turin]

I think a few of Dubas moves were genuinely good - the Karlsson one was awesome, Ned was good and Eller was good. But nothing matters if you are dead last on the powerplay and team finishing 5 on 5. It's not easy to come in and fire a respected coach who's older than you the first season, but it's your job.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't know, other than Graves I don't really have a problem with what Dubas did during the summer. Acquiring a game breaker like EK gave him alot of points for me. The team he assembled should have been a wild card team at the worst.

I place the blame for this season solely on Sullivan. Dude is a moron mascarading as a genius. Put anyone else in his place and the vibe about the team is totally different.

What about EK routinely turning the puck over? And Geno largely being invisible for about a month? When do the players or their ages become an issue?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think a few of Dubas moves were genuinely good - the Karlsson one was awesome, Ned was good and Eller was good. But nothing matters if you are dead last on the powerplay and team finishing 5 on 5. It's not easy to come in and fire a respected coach who's older than you the first season, but it's your job.

I know you're a big fan of this one... they could... you know... fire Todd Reirden if nothing else.

I understand that he's a Pittsburgh treasure and one of the pre-eminent minds in the game. So it would be SUPER controversial and difficult. But the powerplay IS kind of his thing and it's... well... not so good.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't know, other than Graves I don't really have a problem with what Dubas did during the summer. Acquiring a game breaker like EK gave him alot of points for me. The team he assembled should have been a wild card team at the worst.

I place the blame for this season solely on Sullivan. Dude is a moron mascarading as a genius. Put anyone else in his place and the vibe about the team is totally different.

I think Dubas has mostly done a borderline poor/mediocre job. He's had too many misses with his acquisitions so far for me to put him higher than that.

Graves has been a dud. Pretty much every bottom-6 addition he has made has been a dud, outside of Eller who's more of a good 4C than a 3C. Smith has been mediocre, but for the price it's hard to criticize too much. Karlsson has been good, although his performance is less good in the context that he makes $10 million a year. Nedjelkovic and Jarry have been great, but there's really not a ton there beyond that.

There's just been a lot of duds that he has added so far. I understand it wasn't going to be an immediate fix to clean up the mess Hextall left, and the bottom-6 this year is better than what it was last year. But it's hard to be inspired about what he has done so far, especially when he seems unwilling to make any tough changes to the coaching staff.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I hope 90% of that presser was PR speak.

Have you ever heard a press conference that wasn't?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Didn't really need 6 separate moves. Just needed creative solutions and a GM willing to go all in.

Instead we picked Yager for reasons that are unexplainable. That 1st could've brought us HUGE returns given the draft it was in and the fact not a single team moved a 1st. Hell you could've probably just moved down and got a decent player out of it.

We then acquired Smith. Good move, but obviously completely stupid in retrospect considering they thought Smith would be a top six forward here helping to carry Malkin's line.

UFA is a disaster we don't need to revisit. And then the EK trade.

It would've been so easy for Dubas to build a good team if he just was creative, patient, and took chances on young players. Instead he trade for a bunch of 30+ year olds, signed a bunch of 30+ year olds and now we should give him a chance because "he wants to get younger"?

They needed two wingers for Geno's line, one of which needed to be a significant scoring threat. They needed to remove several bad fits/deadweight players. They needed to fire the coaching staff. They needed to find some more muscle/snarl for the middle-6. That's a lotta work.

This is a whole lotta bullshit that you and I both knew wasn't gonna happen all summer. This forum kicks around ideas about 500x more ambitious than anything that's happened since probably the Brassard trade.

Smith-Zucker was a lateral move from the second it was announced; a 3rd liner without the scoring punch Geno's line has needed for years. This team adores that slop. EK landed in this team's lap for basically free and was predictably neutered almost immediately by Sullivan and Reirden's coaching. The bottom-6 was just as dogshit as it's been under Hextall. Team's still pissweak physically in all three zones. The blueline still has one defensively competent guy and is a mess otherwise.

Predictable and cowardly. Just like I've been saying for years. Era's dead, they'll keep pretending it isn't until Sid retires, but the Cup window slammed shut so hard it shattered the glass back when Mario shrugged in 2020. You can be mad if you want, but it's wasted energy. The reality is we get to either eat this shit sandwich until Sid retires or go find another hobby/habit until the rebuild starts, cuz it's just gonna be the exact thing we've seen the past few years, steadily worsening, until an ugly teardown and rebuilding phase that'll probably last a decade.

 

[eXile3]

I think a few of Dubas moves were genuinely good - the Karlsson one was awesome, Ned was good and Eller was good. But nothing matters if you are dead last on the powerplay and team finishing 5 on 5. It's not easy to come in and fire a respected coach who's older than you the first season, but it's your job.

Eller was good in the sense he was a nice addition. Not in the sense Dubas actually thought he was going to help scoring on the 3rd line.

 

[Turin]

I know you're a big fan of this one... they could... you know... fire Todd Reirden if nothing else.

I understand that he's a Pittsburgh treasure and one of the pre-eminent minds in the game. So it would be SUPER controversial and difficult. But the powerplay IS kind of his thing and it's... well... not so good.

Somebody tell FSG and Dubas that Reirden wasn't here for the Cups, he was in Washington getting clowned by those Cup teams. I feel like they do not know this information.

Have you ever heard a press conference that wasn't?

Rutherford. But that's it. JR would get up there and talk about how disappointed he was, and that he doesn't know what to do but anything is on the table. He would say that after already having fired Sully and traded Rust and Smith by now.