Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Empoleon8771]

I think they're both terrible, but for different reasons. JR spent assets like he was gonna die any moment, typical boomer shit, and Hextall was just a total buffoon. It's been a mess for a real long time, imo.

I've been doing a bit of thinking regarding JR and I think fans were a bit too harsh to him at the end of his time. Did he make some bad trades and pay a ton of assets? Yeah, absolutely. But the team was never really in a bad spot in the last few years of his tenure, it had flaws but nothing even close to what it had now.

When JR rage quit, the only real hole the Penguins had on their team was their 3C when Jankowski was brought in for the role. Other than that, the team was really solid overall. Hextall then came in, pissed away numerous young/quality players for nothing (McCann, Tanev, Matheson and Marino all gone) and replaced them with worse, older and more expensive players.

I can't believe Hextall left Kyle Dubas Lars Eller as our 3C and Ryan Graves as a top 4 LHD.

Hextall inherited McCann, Tanev, Marino and Matheson from JR and pissed them all away for basically nothing. He joined the Penguins when they had a pretty strong team, pissed away numerous young players for nothing and added terrible contracts between Carter and Granlund.

The idea that Dubas has been worse than Hextall is just you being the same troll you've always been. Dubas has mostly done nothing, he's done a mediocre job. Ron Hextall killed any chance of this team competing in the last few years with Crosby and Malkin.

 

[Ryder71]

Then Dubas' comments make even less sense.

Nothing he said really surprised me. Glad he's open to moving Jake. But I'll say this, pretty sure you'll see an nhl ready player two coming back. I mean they kinda have to for cap reasons.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm tired of seeing Sully trot out Eller/Carter on the ice for defensive zone faceoffs.

There needs to be more insurance, just in case. In reality, the line should be:

Eller - Carter - Acciari
Crosby - Graves

I don't know that I've ever seen a team in my life win more faceoffs only to almost immediately turn the puck over. Hint: it's because this team is obsessed with set plays and thinks they're smart.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's not a defense. It's perspective and reality.

Dubas has done a much worse job than Ron Hextall did. Which is in some ways hilariously entertaining.

Much worse, or exactly the same? Top-6 still relies entirely on whether Sid's going. Bottom-6 still can't score and plays dogshit, zero-event hockey. Blueline's still a mess. Goaltending's still volatile as hell.

I mean, I think we were both talking shit about the roster all summer. None of this was unexpected. It's played out exactly like I and many others said it would. That's the worst part; this was easily predictable, just like the team's been the past handful of years.

Sullivan's the common denominator. It's unfathomable how this dude's reached the status of a demi-god within this organization, across multiple FOs and ownership groups. I'm starting to believe they really do only look at the number of Cups versus years coached and that's that. Just wholly uninvolved in year-to-year evaluation or addressing issues.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I don't know that I've ever seen a team in my life win more faceoffs only to almost immediately turn the puck over. Hint: it's because this team is obsessed with set plays and thinks they're smart.

Exactly. And do you know why they turn the puck over? Because the insurance center isn't thinking about making outlet passes or getting creative offensively - you know, actual hockey plays. He's thinking about getting to the bench so that the real winger who's supposed to be on that line can hop over the boards.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Ron Hextall and Kyle Dubas might both be worlds apart in ability or closer than we think.

But we're looking at them both through a moron-tinted lens in Mike Sullivan so I don't find it worth fighting over. Who knows.

Exactly. And do you know why they turn the puck over? Because the insurance center isn't thinking about making outlet passes or getting creative offensively - you know, actual hockey plays. He's thinking about getting to the bench so that the real winger who's supposed to be on that line can hop over the boards.

Yep. Either that or they are instructed to do certain things after a F/O win.

And if you and I know that the other team knows that. But they're gonna do it, anyway.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I've been doing a bit of thinking regarding JR and I think fans were a bit too harsh to him at the end of his time. Did he make some bad trades and pay a ton of assets? Yeah, absolutely. But the team was never really in a bad spot in the last few years of his tenure, it had flaws but nothing even close to what it had now.

When JR rage quit, the only real hole the Penguins had on their team was their 3C when Jankowski was brought in for the role. Other than that, the team was really solid overall. Hextall then came in, pissed away numerous young/quality players for nothing (McCann, Tanev, Matheson and Marino all gone) and replaced them with worse, older and more expensive players.



Hextall inherited McCann, Tanev, Marino and Matheson from JR and pissed them all away for basically nothing. He joined the Penguins when they had a pretty strong team, pissed away numerous young players for nothing and added terrible contracts between Carter and Granlund.

The idea that Dubas has been worse than Hextall is just you being the same troll you've always been. Dubas has mostly done nothing, he's done a mediocre job. Ron Hextall killed any chance of this team competing in the last few years with Crosby and Malkin.

There's no need to whitewash JR's final years here imo. He was an absolute maniac. He spent premium assets for 3rd/4th liners and bad fits as his tenure wound down, landed the worst forward in hockey (Reaves) who served no purpose in a league with an instigator, signed JJ for half a decade, etc. Dude was an absolute brainless loser who got lucky for about 18 months. He was trash in Carolina before, he was trash here in his final years, and he inherited a team pretty much set with core/supporting pieces in Vancouver that took a bit to gel.

Both GMs were horrendous for different reasons, but horrendous nonetheless imo.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hextall inherited McCann, Tanev, Marino and Matheson from JR and pissed them all away for basically nothing. He joined the Penguins when they had a pretty strong team, pissed away numerous young players for nothing and added terrible contracts between Carter and Granlund.

The idea that Dubas has been worse than Hextall is just you being the same troll you've always been. Dubas has mostly done nothing, he's done a mediocre job. Ron Hextall killed any chance of this team competing in the last few years with Crosby and Malkin.

Is this supposed to mean anything?

He lost McCann and Evan Rodrigues immediately came in and replicated his production here.

Marino has the 2nd worst GA per 60 in the league this year.

Matheson is Matheson. Getting out of the contract when we did for no cost was fine and Petry was good for us last year.

We had to lose someone in the ED. Losing Tanev was an easy call.

Much worse, or exactly the same? Top-6 still relies entirely on whether Sid's going. Bottom-6 still can't score and plays dogshit, zero-event hockey. Blueline's still a mess. Goaltending's still volatile as hell.

I mean, I think we were both talking shit about the roster all summer. None of this was unexpected. It's played out exactly like I and many others said it would. That's the worst part; this was easily predictable, just like the team's been the past handful of years.

Sullivan's the common denominator. It's unfathomable how this dude's reached the status of a demi-god within this organization, across multiple FOs and ownership groups. I'm starting to believe they really do only look at the number of Cups versus years coached and that's that. Just wholly uninvolved in year-to-year evaluation or addressing issues.

Hextall's teams were playoff teams.

Dubas' team is probably the worst Penguins team we've seen since 05-06.

 

[Empoleon8771]

There's no need to whitewash JR's final years here imo. He was an absolute maniac. He spent premium assets for 3rd/4th liners and bad fits as his tenure wound down, landed the worst forward in hockey (Reaves) who served no purpose in a league with an instigator, signed JJ for half a decade, etc. Dude was an absolute brainless loser who got lucky for about 18 months. He was trash in Carolina before, he was trash here in his final years, and he inherited a team pretty much set with core/supporting pieces in Vancouver that took a bit to gel.

Both GMs were horrendous for different reasons, but horrendous nonetheless imo.

He was, I'm not disagreeing with that. I just think there's a big difference between "guy who pays way too much to keep the team good" vs "guy who actively kills the team".

Had JR never left, I bet he would have done something really stupid and they'd have no prospect pool. But with that being said, I'm also pretty confident that they'd be better than they are today.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Ryan Reaves for a first round pick.

Jack Johnson.

Dumping Oleksiak because he got jumped and "lost" a fight when he isn't even a fighter.

JR was outta control.

That said... like I mentioned earlier I almost miss him compared to THIS horseshit.

 

[Gurglesons]

He was, I'm not disagreeing with that. I just think there's a big difference between "guy who pays way too much to keep the team good" vs "guy who actively kills the team".

Had JR never left, I bet he would have done something really stupid and they'd have no prospect pool. But with that being said, I'm also pretty confident that they'd be better than they are today.

It's sad when JR in 2020 is what we are wishing for. But I agree. Rutherford was world class compared to these two dumbasses.

Ryan Reaves for a first round pick.

Jack Johnson.

Dumping Oleksiak because he got jumped and "lost" a fight when he isn't even a fighter.

JR was outta control.

That said... like I mentioned earlier I almost miss him compared to THIS horseshit.

I still take this over whatever the f*** we've been doing the last three seasons.

 

[cookthebooks]

Ryan Reaves for a first round pick.

Jack Johnson.

Dumping Oleksiak because he got jumped and "lost" a fight when he isn't even a fighter.

JR was outta control.

That said... like I mentioned earlier I almost miss him compared to THIS horseshit.

was thinking about how ryan reaves ruined this version of the team forever in the shower this morning

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It's sad when JR in 2020 is what we are wishing for. But I agree. Rutherford was world class compared to these two dumbasses.

Serious question - outside of firing Sullivan, are there moves Dubas could make at the deadline and in this offseason that would change your evaluation of him?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is this supposed to mean anything?

He lost McCann and Evan Rodrigues immediately came in and replicated his production here.

And then he let Rodrigues go because he paid the corpse of Jeff Carter instead.

Oh yeah, what he traded McCann for ended up nothing too.

Marino has the 2nd worst GA per 60 in the league this year.

And Hextall traded him for Ty Smith, who has not shown to be a NHL caliber defenseman.

Matheson is Matheson. Getting out of the contract when we did for no cost was fine and Petry was good for us last year.

Matheson has been clearly better than Petry in each of the last 3 years. Hextall traded a guy in his prime for a guy on the downswing of his career, which has become even more apparent this year.

We had to lose someone in the ED. Losing Tanev was an easy call.

And Hextall decided to protect Jeff Carter and lose both McCann and Tanev, when they could have just lost 1 and been fine.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Serious question - outside of firing Sullivan, are there moves Dubas could make at the deadline and in this offseason that would change your evaluation of him?

I hate to speak for pixies but I absolutely will... trading to get John Marino back.

That would mend his wounded heart.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Is this supposed to mean anything?

He lost McCann and Evan Rodrigues immediately came in and replicated his production here.

Marino has the 2nd worst GA per 60 in the league this year.

Matheson is Matheson. Getting out of the contract when we did for no cost was fine and Petry was good for us last year.

We had to lose someone in the ED. Losing Tanev was an easy call.



Hextall's teams were playoff teams.

Dubas' team is probably the worst Penguins team we've seen since 05-06.

Who gives a f*** about the playoffs? By your metric, Sully's teams were playoff teams too until they weren't. Dumb logic. Hextall sucked, and Dubas' twiddling this thumbs until Sid retires sucks too.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Oh yeah I forgot when Hextall got lucky and cleared out some of his bad contracts (Kapanen and McGinn) for insignificant costs, only to decide to trade a 2nd round pick for Mikael Granlund and try to shoehorn him into a defensive 3C role.

 

[Gurglesons]

Serious question - outside of firing Sullivan, are there moves Dubas could make at the deadline and in this offseason that would change your evaluation of him?

No.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Who gives a f*** about the playoffs? By your metric, Sully's teams were playoff teams too until they weren't. Dumb logic. Hextall sucked, and Dubas' twiddling this thumbs until Sid retires sucks too.

This is a take I can understand. Hextall actively killed the team while Dubas has done basically nothing positive or negative at this point.

 

[Gurglesons]

And then he let Rodrigues go because he paid the corpse of Jeff Carter instead.

Oh yeah, what he traded McCann for ended up nothing too.



And Hextall traded him for Ty Smith, who has not shown to be a NHL caliber defenseman.



Matheson has been clearly better than Petry in each of the last 3 years. Hextall traded a guy in his prime for a guy on the downswing of his career, which has become even more apparent this year.



And Hextall decided to protect Jeff Carter and lose both McCann and Tanev, when they could have just lost 1 and been fine.

I'm not sure any of these moves had a negative effect on the team to be honest.

 

[PensPlz]

Fun fact, the last game Arizona Coyotes (10 game losing streak) won was against the Pens

 

[Come on]

CDubs on waivers

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

He was, I'm not disagreeing with that. I just think there's a big difference between "guy who pays way too much to keep the team good" vs "guy who actively kills the team".

Had JR never left, I bet he would have done something really stupid and they'd have no prospect pool. But with that being said, I'm also pretty confident that they'd be better than they are today.

I just disagree. JR actively killed this team, Hextall shot it a few more times, and Dubas is smiling politely next to the rotting corpse saying it could be a bit more lively but it's still alive and well.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who gives a f*** about the playoffs? By your metric, Sully's teams were playoff teams too until they weren't. Dumb logic. Hextall sucked, and Dubas' twiddling this thumbs until Sid retires sucks too.

Me. I want to watch Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin play playoff hockey. Hextall did that twice. Dubas has us performing worse than we ever had and it was predictable from July 1st.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

was thinking about how ryan reaves ruined this version of the team forever in the shower this morning

That sure seems like a clear indication that the team was going in a decidedly stupider direction, huh?

Especially since coach Megamind had no intentions of even attempting to use him.