Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Honour Over Glory]

He's not wrong. Malkin can't bulldoze his way through teams like he could, and when he tries it ends poorly.

Sullivan said this team needs to play differently to win. He's right. And when they've done it, it's worked. Colorado. Vegas. The first Winnipeg game. They've completely shut down good teams.

They just don't do it consistently, and their offense has continued to be a problem where they've lost games they should have won.

You mean against the teams missing key top players?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

You mean against the teams missing key top players?

Everyone has injuries.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Maybe Malkin can't make ineffective wingers good. Can't wait to see what Sid looks like after Jake gets traded for futures.

I agree. Which is why I've said they should trade Rakell and Smith for players who would be a better fit.

This is better when it plays a more methodical game focused on crashing the net and keeping play in front of them, not running and running.

Malkin would be better suited at this stage of his career to have players who create space and score in close. That's not Rakell or Smith.

They need to flip both, regardless of what they do with Jake and whoever ends up as coach.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Lol…Sullivan is always talking about fixing players’ games and everything the coaching staff is doing in that regard…and yet they’re worse doo doo than before and the team is worse for it…maybe they need to figure out that they’re terrible at “fixing” players and stop meddling lol

Name the last player this coach/staff has fixed?
Olek/Schultz?

And that was eons and a defensive coach change ago.
So pardon me if my eyes roll out of my f***in head the next time Sullivan chimes in about how he's improved anyone's game.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I agree. Which is why I've said they should trade Rakell and Smith for players who would be a better fit.

This is better when it plays a more methodical game focused on crashing the net and keeping play in front of them, not running and running.

Malkin would be better suited at this stage of his career to have players who create space and score in close. That's not Rakell or Smith.

They need to flip both, regardless of what they do with Jake and whoever ends up as coach.

Well we can at least agree on that. Even though I think I'm either talking to a wall here or someone who has me on ignore lol

As much time and effort as the media and some fans put in to trashing Malkin you'd think the glaring 18odd million this team is wasting on the likes of Smith, Rakell, Rust, Carter, etc. would raise more alarm. But I suppose trying to pin it on one guy is easier.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't accept fancy stats that tell me the offense is good, so I'm not going to accept them when they tell me the defense is bad either.

I also don't really accept judging Dubas' roster moves on their record or any stats because I think the root cause of their problems is mostly the coaching staff.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's still bizarre to me that no matter what you think of this team -- is it a playoff team, is it a dumpster fire?-- we refuse to make any major changes unless injury forces us to. We have the 3rd worst powerplay in the league. We are out of playoff position, we are losing our games in hand. And... nothing. We're not juggling lines, we're trying new looks, nothing. We're not making trades or promoting (perhaps for cap reasons) but nobody is even apparently worried that we're flailing and failing.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's still bizarre to me that no matter what you think of this team -- is it a playoff team, is it a dumpster fire?-- we refuse to make any major changes unless injury forces us to. We have the 3rd worst powerplay in the league. We are out of playoff position, we are losing our games in hand. And... nothing. We're not juggling lines, we're trying new looks, nothing. We're not making trades or promoting (perhaps for cap reasons) but nobody is even apparently worried that we're flailing and failing.

Trust The Process™

 

[HandshakeLine]

Trust The Process™

Right?

If the coaches really believed in the team, they'd be making some kind of changes to get back in the hunt. But they don't, so clearly they don't have any faith in their own system. And management clearly hasn't given up yet, but they also don't think it's necessary to make a move despite the team plummeting in the standings and being historically bad at special teams. Maybe they're waiting til the deadline to sell off and try to keep fans in the seats, but why keep our useless bottom 6 turds on the roster in that case? Just promote from within and try to shop some players and salvage some reputations?

I just don't think any organization could have played this kind of season as bad as this if they tried to on purpose. And the most infuriating part is that nobody in the organization, from the bottom 6 to the front office seems to care.

 

[Invalid cuz QoC]

It's still bizarre to me that no matter what you think of this team -- is it a playoff team, is it a dumpster fire?-- we refuse to make any major changes unless injury forces us to. We have the 3rd worst powerplay in the league. We are out of playoff position, we are losing our games in hand. And... nothing. We're not juggling lines, we're trying new looks, nothing. We're not making trades or promoting (perhaps for cap reasons) but nobody is even apparently worried that we're flailing and failing.

Job security.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Job security.

Yeah, I mean, that's reason #2123 why I despise our coach, but you'd think he'd at least have enough pride in his work to not watch a power play that is only slightly better than Philadelphia and Chicago night after night.

Anyhow, DP, tell us how we're missing out on possibly having an even worse season by firing the coach, I need some stability in the timeline.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Right?

If the coaches really believed in the team, they'd be making some kind of changes to get back in the hunt. But they don't, so clearly they don't have any faith in their own system. And management clearly hasn't given up yet, but they also don't think it's necessary to make a move despite the team plummeting in the standings and being historically bad at special teams. Maybe they're waiting til the deadline to sell off and try to keep fans in the seats, but why keep our useless bottom 6 turds on the roster in that case? Just promote from within and try to shop some players and salvage some reputations?

I just don't think any organization could have played this kind of season as bad as this if they tried to on purpose. And the most infuriating part is that nobody in the organization, from the bottom 6 to the front office seems to care.

Well my dear HSL they have worked very hard for years to build their comfortable little echo chamber. They aren't gonna start rocking the boat now when things are nice and comfy and FSG seems content to just shrug and sign checks.

I mean you're right, though. Like I said earlier I was stupid enough to actually believe these guys gave a shit. They most certainly do not. Sure they grabbed EK but they even managed to sour that pint of milk by then trying to "fix" him and everyone was evidently cool with that idea - trading for a guy that absolutely plays a certain way at 30+ years old only to try changing him... brilliant. I honestly thought that Dubas could help "dummy proof" the roster for the coach. I thought that this idea of boosting the offense from the back end somehow in THIS system was smart.

Like I said... I feel really, really stupid. It's pretty clear they are in "lip service and coast" mode. Hell of a way to spend the last of Crosby's years, particularly while he's still productive. All for the sake of shielding an NHL coach. Hilarious were it not so mind-numbingly moronic.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Everyone has injuries.

You are like an abused spouse that keeps talking about how he's different now with Sullivan.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Lol…Sullivan is always talking about fixing players’ games and everything the coaching staff is doing in that regard…and yet they’re worse doo doo than before and the team is worse for it…maybe they need to figure out that they’re terrible at “fixing” players and stop meddling lol

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this quote or his line of thinking.

Players have to adapt and change as they age, and his assessment about them still having elite play in them is correct.

The problem is that, in practice, Sullivan has not shown any ability to bring this to fruition.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Well my dear HSL they have worked very hard for years to build their comfortable little echo chamber. They aren't gonna start rocking the boat now when things are nice and comfy and FSG seems content to just shrug and sign checks.

I mean you're right, though. Like I said earlier I was stupid enough to actually believe these guys gave a shit. They most certainly do not. Sure they grabbed EK but they even managed to sour that pint of milk by then trying to "fix" him and everyone was evidently cool with that idea - trading for a guy that absolutely plays a certain way at 30+ years old only to try changing him... brilliant. I honestly thought that Dubas could help "dummy proof" the roster for the coach. I thought that this idea of boosting the offense from the back end somehow in THIS system was smart.

Like I said... I feel really, really stupid. It's pretty clear they are in "lip service and coast" mode. Hell of a way to spend the last of Crosby's years, particularly while he's still productive. All for the sake of shielding an NHL coach. Hilarious were it not so mind-numbingly moronic.

But even then, the wildest part is... they're not in the playoffs. It'd be one thing to Bylsma it up where you keep doing the same thing, because at least you're in the postseason. But, no... we're 7th in the Metro.

 

[HandshakeLine]

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this quote or his line of thinking.

Players have to adapt and change as they age, and his assessment about them still having elite play in them is correct.

The problem is that, in practice, Sullivan has not shown any ability to bring this to fruition.

Yeah, it's like correctly diagnosing a migraine while the patient is also dying of brain cancer. Older players definitely need to change their styles in order to be effective but we're still not putting them in positions to succeed, nor are we actually trying to change the way we play because the system is still predicated on them playing like they did 6 years ago.

It's the right answer, but it's not being put into practice.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

But even then, the wildest part is... they're not in the playoffs. It'd be one thing to Bylsma it up where you keep doing the same thing, because at least you're in the postseason. But, no... we're 7th in the Metro.

I think they really are of the opinion that they are awesome, it's just a matter of time and that switch will get flipped any day, now. Bad puck luck... the underlying numbers say the process is working etc.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Let's go to the Defense
On paper, they essentially switched out Dumo's corpse/Petry/Rutta for EK and Graves. I view Dumo and Graves as a wash. So Petry and Rutta for EK? Hell to the yes every day of the week. On paper that should be a HUGE net positive.

In net, Ned has been a big net plus over CDS

So the way I see it, the team is BETTER vs what we iced in the last game of the season by a fair margin. Disagree with what fruit this season has borne, but on paper we saw that Dubas had a plan and executed it in lockstep with Sully.
The actual play on the ice is a different story and I put that squarely on the coaches

Couldn’t have said it better (the F stuff too).

I would even say it’s: Petry Ruutta << EK Ludvig (not to be confused with Craig Ludwig).

Ludvig may not be as defensively sound as Ruutta yet, but he is doing what Rutta was supposed to do, be physical!

Right now all our problems are on the coaches.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Right now all our problems are on the coaches.

Even I wouldn't go that far. The roster is still a mess and not gelling, but yeah, coaching is a huge part of that.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Even I wouldn't go that far. The roster is still a mess and not gelling, but yeah, coaching is a huge part of that.

Yeah I mean considering how much I whinge about the guy you'd think I put it all on Sullivan. But it's never on just one guy. The roster has like 20+ million worth of varying flavors of bad fit, underperforming, lazy/pouty or just flat-out bad on it. Not to mention most of the players still worth a damn are OLD. That's a lot to overcome.

But as others have pointed out it's maybe hard to get a true read on some of the players I've lumped into that group.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Well we can at least agree on that. Even though I think I'm either talking to a wall here or someone who has me on ignore lol

As much time and effort as the media and some fans put in to trashing Malkin you'd think the glaring 18odd million this team is wasting on the likes of Smith, Rakell, Rust, Carter, etc. would raise more alarm. But I suppose trying to pin it on one guy is easier.

Who would have thought that building your scoring lines around perimeter wingers who don't even have those lethal shots that can be effective from distance wouldn't result in goals? It's mind boggling, I tell you.

On a serious note, if you're going to be a perimeter guy AND still be effective then you either have to be an elite playmaker who creates chances for guys who go to the dirty areas, or you have to be able to unload absolute bombs either through a wicked wrister or a blazing one-timer. Our wingers don't possess either of those, and I think it's obvious why we consistently under-perform our "expected" goals.

 

[Gurglesons]

But even then, the wildest part is... they're not in the playoffs. It'd be one thing to Bylsma it up where you keep doing the same thing, because at least you're in the postseason. But, no... we're 7th in the Metro.

Hence why Sullivan is a much worse coach than Bylsma ever was.

 

[Josey Wales]

Hence why Sullivan is a much worse coach than Bylsma ever was.

At this point you are a Caricature of yourself

 

[Gurglesons]

At this point you are a Caricature of yourself

Better than being whatever you are on this forum. Literally never added anything BESIDES STUFF LIKE THIS OHHHHHH

 

[Josey Wales]

Better than being whatever you are on this forum. Literally never added anything BESIDES STUFF LIKE THIS OHHHHHH

Sorry you aren't intelligent to grasp it