Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Oh. I'm not saying that happens now lol.

I'm saying he is never fired and he just moves up to an AGM role in a few years.

I do not appreciate this mid-day nightmare.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I do not appreciate this mid-day nightmare.

You don't think that would be at least somewhat of an improvement?

AGMs are kinda empty suits. Not ideal but better than him having a direct hand in how the team plays and what the lineup card is every night. Not to mention he's basically an AGM+ already.

 

[Gurglesons]

That would be a relief IMO. I think his damage can be somewhat mitigated from upstairs.

Of course then he's still a large part of dictating what kinds of players are on the team. And I would assume he would even be in on the process of hiring his replacement. So who knows. All I know is they have drug their feet way too long on way too many things and this is all a waste of breath at this point. They missed the boat and are now solidly in that shitty in-between limbo area.

Don't worry. He ACTUALLY LOVED Jared McCann and Evan Rodrigues and it wasn't totally his fault we kept Jeff Carter.

Once we get rid of Hextall's guys like Graves, Acciari, and Harkins and Sullivan has some input on the roster we will have some ability to really judge him.

His scouting and opinions will be huge.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You don't think that would be at least somewhat of an improvement?

AGMs are kinda empty suits. Not ideal but better than him having a direct hand in how the team plays and what the lineup card is every night. Not to mention he's basically an AGM+ already.

I want Sullivan entirely gone when he's no longer the coach. I definitely don't want him to have any further voice on the roster construction of this team--even if he's just a distant "other voice in the room" kinda guy.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I want Sullivan entirely gone when he's no longer the coach. I definitely don't want him to have any further voice on the roster construction of this team--even if he's just a distant "other voice in the room" kinda guy.

OK sure.

But here in reality where FSG basically are planning his statue next to Mario's wouldn't that be an improvement?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think it's far more likely that Sullivan is fired after the season before his contract kicks in than he is promoted to some sort of front office position.

His entire career has centered around coaching. He spent one year in player development because that's what he could get.

Plus, no matter what happens with the Pens, he's probably still the frontrunner to be USA Hockey's coach for the Olympics, especially with Guerin as the GM. Hell, he'd likely to just devote his time to that than take a front office job.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Wouldn't it just be something to see Sullivan embarrassed at the Olympics like Bylsma was. I hope you Americans are ready to watch guys like ZAR represent your country. Gotta have guys with stick-to-itness. I'm joking but there's definitely gonna be some odd picks on the team because Sullivan thinks he's a mastermind.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

OK sure.

But here in reality where FSG basically are planning his statue next to Mario's wouldn't that be an improvement?

I think, like you said, he's already pretty much the AGM. It'd just be more of the same probably.

Also, I'm not sure Sullivan's gonna wanna stick around for the rebuild. Fingers crossed he leaves once Sid retires and the tear down begins in earnest.

 

[Gurglesons]

Wouldn't it just be something to see Sullivan embarrassed at the Olympics like Bylsma was. I hope you Americans are ready to watch guys like ZAR represent your country. Gotta have guys with stick-to-itness. I'm joking but there's definitely gonna be some odd picks on the team because Sullivan thinks he's a mastermind.

We should have seen it recently. Probably means he gets fired last year when the national media would've seen what a fraud this guy was.

 

[The GM]

I think it's far more likely that Sullivan is fired after the season before his contract kicks in than he is promoted to some sort of front office position.

His entire career has centered around coaching. He spent one year in player development because that's what he could get.

Plus, no matter what happens with the Pens, he's probably still the frontrunner to be USA Hockey's coach for the Olympics, especially with Guerin as the GM. Hell, he'd likely to just devote his time to that than take a front office job.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think it's far more likely that Sullivan is fired after the season before his contract kicks in than he is promoted to some sort of front office position.

His entire career has centered around coaching. He spent one year in player development because that's what he could get.

Plus, no matter what happens with the Pens, he's probably still the frontrunner to be USA Hockey's coach for the Olympics, especially with Guerin as the GM. Hell, he'd likely to just devote his time to that than take a front office job.

I think it's absurd to think they'd fire him at the end of the season if they won't do it in season. We are getting at minimum another start of the season with Sullivan.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It's obvious that Hextall and Dubas are getting the same mantra from ownership or they've both came to that same decision on their own either way...

It's just weird how nobody is calling out Dubas for making a worse team.

I could tell this team sucked on July 1st and we weren't going to make the playoffs.

Kinda funny once again that we will trade the best winger of the Sid and Malkin era outside of Hossa for spare parts. As soon as we took Yager we knew where this was going.

Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that. No way this team on paper is WORSE than what we ended with last year.

The fact is, this team is not in the position it is in if the PP was just merely average. That is solely on the coaches, no ifs ands or butts about it. The fact Reirden wasn't sent packing over the AS Break shows you how out of touch Dubas/FSG is. So if you want to rip Dubas about anything, it should be he didn't demand the PP coach get sacked immediately.

 

[Andy99]

 

[Gurglesons]

Beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that. No way this team on paper is WORSE than what we ended with last year.

The fact is, this team is not in the position it is in if the PP was just merely average. That is solely on the coaches, no ifs ands or butts about it. The fact Reirden wasn't sent packing over the AS Break shows you how out of touch Dubas/FSG is. So if you want to rip Dubas about anything, it should be he didn't demand the PP coach get sacked immediately.

It is 100% worse than what we had on paper last year.

We downgraded at nearly every position in our bottom six outside of Eller for Carter which was partially on our coach because we had other C options.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think it's absurd to think they'd fire him at the end of the season if they won't do it in season. We are getting at minimum another start of the season with Sullivan.

I truly don't think Dubas will keep the staff as is if they miss the playoffs.

Is it possible that he keeps Sullivan on a short leash while changing the assistants? Sure. But I think there's a natural break because the extension hasn't kicked in yet.

I think Dubas isn't lying when he says he thinks highly of Sullivan. And that's why he hasn't fired him midseason. He's giving him every opportunity to find an internal solution.

When that falls short, he can wipe the slate clean this off-season by saying, "I have a tremendous amount of respect for Mike, as does the entire team. After careful evaluation, I decided that it's time for a reset to maximize the final years of the core and position this franchise for as smooth of a transition as possible. That includes bringing in a different perspective and voice behind the bench."

 

[Gurglesons]

I truly don't think Dubas will keep the staff as is if they miss the playoffs.

Is it possible that he keeps Sullivan on a short leash while changing the assistants? Sure. But I think there's a natural break because the extension hasn't kicked in yet.

I think Dubas isn't lying when he says he thinks highly of Sullivan. And that's why he hasn't fired him midseason. He's giving him every opportunity to find an internal solution.

When that falls short, he can wipe the slate clean this off-season by saying, "I have a tremendous amount of respect for Mike, as does the entire team. After careful evaluation, I decided that it's time for a reset to maximize the final years of the core and position this franchise for as smooth of a transition as possible. That includes bringing in a different perspective and voice behind the bench."

I'll be shocked if they fire Mike Sullivan after the season and if they are going to do that I'll think even less of Dubas.

If you are firing him at the end of the season, why are you not firing him now to try and salvage the season?

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Ya i get its Dubas first year but he has been non existent since the season started. all the player movement (Recalls) look like sully is at the helm them.

Is Dubas still even here?

This is where I'm questioning...
The more I think about it, the more I feel it's been decided to sell at the deadline. I mean, if they felt we were close, don't you think we would have added by now?

So long as they patently refuse to do the one obvious thing they aren't REALLY trying IMO. Hell they won't even fire the doofus assistant coach running a historically bad powerplay.

As if Mike Sullivan would make a good rebuilding coach. When is the last time he developed NHL talent from the ground up? Six years ago? Dom Simon?

I think the argument DK gave was he also runs the PK (or some other D related stuff). So fine..you don't want to fire him. Remove the PP duties from him, and hire someone else specifically for the PP!

It is 100% worse than what we had on paper last year.

We downgraded at nearly every position in our bottom six outside of Eller for Carter which was partially on our coach because we had other C options.

I don't agree with that statement. Our D and G are better, even with Graves.

Our bottom 6 is more of a Sully problem. Every bottom 6 that leaves Sully does better elsewhere, which means no matter who you give him, they will suck.

Speaking of Graves...
I don't understand why a player that was effective in Colorado, and NJ suddenly plays like a jittery AHLer. Fine, maybe he's not a top-2 but at this point he doesn't look like he even belongs in the NHL, and that's all on the coaches! E

EK and coaches...
Now Sully is talking about him playing "his game", which they knew he could always do, and yet for 1/2 the season they didn't want him to? I swear our coaching staff is f#@#ed in their heads!

 

[Gurglesons]

This is where I'm questioning...
The more I think about it, the more I feel it's been decided to sell at the deadline. I mean, if they felt we were close, don't you think we would have added by now?


I think the argument DK gave was he also runs the PK (or some other D related stuff). So fine..you don't want to fire him. Remove the PP duties from him, and hire someone else specifically for the PP!


I don't agree with that statement. Our D and G are better, even with Graves.

Our bottom 6 is more of a Sully problem. Every bottom 6 that leaves Sully does better elsewhere, which means no matter who you give him, they will suck.

Speaking of Graves...
I don't understand why a player that was effective in Colorado, and NJ suddenly plays like a jittery AHLer. Fine, maybe he's not a top-2 but at this point he doesn't look like he even belongs in the NHL, and that's all on the coaches! E

EK and coaches...
Now Sully is talking about him playing "his game", which they knew he could always do, and yet for 1/2 the season they didn't want him to? I swear our coaching staff is f#@#ed in their heads!

In what world is our D better?

Because Karlsson is scoring a bunch?

We nearly made the playoffs with Letang, Petry, and Petersson only playing 60ish games each.

We brought in EK65 who has been great, but the D as a whole is much worse.

Goaltending is essentially the same with Jarry still being our # 1.. I'll give Dubas props for Ned.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'll be shocked if they fire Mike Sullivan after the season and if they are going to do that I'll think even less of Dubas.

If you are firing him at the end of the season, why are you not firing him now to try and salvage the season?

I know you're on the "anyone but Sullivan train," but if you're a GM and you don't believe the current available candidates are better, it might be wise to stay the course. Internal options like Reirden, Vellucci and Forrest are part of the problem. External candidates like Woodcroft and Evason will want a commitment. Why commit when you can get better candidates this spring?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think the argument DK gave was he also runs the PK (or some other D related stuff). So fine..you don't want to fire him. Remove the PP duties from him, and hire someone else specifically for the PP!

He's the defensemen coach, as well. The Kris Letang Whisperer™ or whatever nonsense.

It's just another cop-out by the media and the team to just sit here and burn another season because... well... in Todd Reirden's case I have no idea why. But I suspect that the assistants staying is also tied in with their over-the-top respect for Sullivan. Having his staff cleaned out multiple times in one tenure not the best look. Even if that was two GMs ago.

 

[Gurglesons]

I know you're on the "anyone but Sullivan train," but if you're a GM and you don't believe the current available candidates are better, it might be wise to stay the course. Internal options like Reirden, Vellucci and Forrest are part of the problem. External candidates like Woodcroft and Evason will want a commitment. Why commit when you can get better candidates this spring?

Stupidest logic I've ever heard. You are a team that said you were going to make the playoffs. You fire your coach just like 6 other teams have this year.

Arrogant, stupidity.

LA, EDM, STL, etc all fired their coach and somehow were able to figure out something.

Weird once again how Hextall didn't get all this rope and weird ass rationalization, but Dubas does.

The fact of the matter is this organization LOVES Mike Sullivan. They think what we are doing is all we can do because we have great players and only fools would "bet against them".

They have no awareness. Ron Hextall was never the problem.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

It is 100% worse than what we had on paper last year.

We downgraded at nearly every position in our bottom six outside of Eller for Carter which was partially on our coach because we had other C options.

Before I disagree wholeheartedly with your post, let's settle on what constitutes last year's roster. Do you agree that was the general lineup?

Last year (lines not necessarily accurate)
Rust/Sid/Jake
Zucker/Geno/Nylander
Granlund/Rak/Heinen
JC/BonesPoehling

Def
POJ/Petts
Dumo/Letang
Rutta/Petry

Goalie
Jarry/CDS

 

[Gurglesons]

Before I disagree wholeheartedly with your post, let's settle on what constitutes last year's roster. Do you agree that was the general lineup?

Last year (lines not necessarily accurate)
Rust/Sid/Jake
Zucker/Geno/Nylander
Granlund/Rak/Heinen
JC/BonesPoehling

Def
POJ/Petts
Dumo/Letang
Rutta/Petry

Goalie
Jarry/CDS

Guentzel - Sid - Rust
Zucker - Malkin - Rakell
Heinen - Carter - Kapanen
Poehling - Blueger - McGinn

Dumo - Letang
Petts - Petry
POJ - Rutta

Jarry / CDS

Was our roster when healthy at this point.

Guentzel - Sid - Rust
Smith - Malkin - Rakell
DOC - Eller - Pulju
Nieto - Acciari - Carter

Petts - Letang
Graves - EK65
POJ - Ruh

Jarry / Ned

Is our roster right now when healthy.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Stupidest logic I've ever heard. You are a team that said you were going to make the playoffs. You fire your coach just like 6 other teams have this year.

Arrogant, stupidity.

LA, EDM, STL, etc all fired their coach and somehow were able to figure out something.

Weird once again how Hextall didn't get all this rope and weird ass rationalization, but Dubas does.

The fact of the matter is this organization LOVES Mike Sullivan. They think what we are doing is all we can do because we have great players and only fools would "bet against them".

They have no awareness. Ron Hextall was never the problem.

I'll be upset if Dubas stands pat at the deadline. Even if he adds, it's at least an attempt. More likely, I think he's getting ready to sell.

And yes, arrogance plays into this. The organization has always catered to its stars over others.

As for Hextall, there was no plan. I see a plan with Dubas. He's laid it out. There was a concerted effort to be better defensively. They are. In fact, they've been outstanding. The offense is the issue.

Dubas historically has been much more aggressive to act than Hextall ever was. I would anticipate activity around the deadline.

Also, I'd hammer him more if Poulin was healthy, but he's not. So it's hard for Dubas to recall him when he's in and out of the lineup.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'll be upset if Dubas stands pat at the deadline. Even if he adds, it's at least an attempt. More likely, I think he's getting ready to sell.

And yes, arrogance plays into this. The organization has always catered to its stars over others.

As for Hextall, there was no plan. I see a plan with Dubas. He's laid it out. There was a concerted effort to be better defensively. They are. In fact, they've been outstanding. The offense is the issue.

Dubas historically has been much more aggressive to act than Hextall ever was. I would anticipate activity around the deadline.

Also, I'd hammer him more if Poulin was healthy, but he's not. So it's hard for Dubas to recall him when he's in and out of the lineup.

They are not better defensively lol.





Must be nice to drink the koolaid.