Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Buddy Bizarre]

Guentzel - Sid - Rust
Zucker - Malkin - Rakell
Heinen - Carter - Kapanen
Poehling - Blueger - McGinn

Dumo - Letang
Petts - Petry
POJ - Rutta

Jarry / CDS

Was our roster when healthy at this point.

Guentzel - Sid - Rust
Smith - Malkin - Rakell
DOC - Eller - Pulju
Nieto - Acciari - Carter

Petts - Letang
Graves - EK65
POJ - Ruh

Jarry / Ned

Is our roster right now when healthy.

So we can move off L1 being a wash since it's the same

L2 is basically which is better: Zucker or R Smith? I'd argue that's a wash. Zucker can barely stay healthy with his new team and Smith doesn't want to play for this team.

L3 got a huge boost with Eller (as you credited)

L4 seems like a wash to me. If you want to say last year's version was slightly better, I won't argue vehemently over that.

Let's go to the Defense
On paper, they essentially switched out Dumo's corpse/Petry/Rutta for EK and Graves. I view Dumo and Graves as a wash. So Petry and Rutta for EK? Hell to the yes every day of the week. On paper that should be a HUGE net positive.

In net, Ned has been a big net plus over CDS

So the way I see it, the team is BETTER vs what we iced in the last game of the season by a fair margin. Disagree with what fruit this season has borne, but on paper we saw that Dubas had a plan and executed it in lockstep with Sully.
The actual play on the ice is a different story and I put that squarely on the coaches

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah the Penguins have been getting great, consistent goaltending nearly all year.

I don't see them as a "great defensive team." They are mediocre defensively. And I think their absolute ineptitude offensively is somewhat even shading my opinion, there. As in... "well these turds have to be at least OK at SOMETHING, right?!?"

Also they'd BETTER be at least OK defensively/goaltending-wise. They play the most zero-event, push-it-up-and-down-the-walls, the middle of the ice is lava game ever. These dorks might as well flip their sticks over.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I feel like half this board would be left adrift in a sea of nothingness and have no idea what to do with themselves or what to talk about the moment Sullivan was fired. It's like a Batman-Joker dynamic where the one needs the other despite the hatred.

 

[Gurglesons]

So we can move off L1 being a wash since it's the same

L2 is basically which is better: Zucker or R Smith? I'd argue that's a wash. Zucker can barely stay healthy with his new team and Smith doesn't want to play for this team.

L3 got a huge boost with Eller (as you credited)

L4 seems like a wash to me. If you want to say last year's version was slightly better, I won't argue vehemently over that.

Let's go to the Defense
On paper, they essentially switched out Dumo's corpse/Petry/Rutta for EK and Graves. I view Dumo and Graves as a wash. So Petry and Rutta for EK? Hell to the yes every day of the week. On paper that should be a HUGE net positive.

In net, Ned has been a big net plus over CDS

So the way I see it, the team is BETTER vs what we iced in the last game of the season by a fair margin. Disagree with what fruit this season has borne, but on paper we saw that Dubas had a plan and executed it in lockstep with Sully.
The actual play on the ice is a different story and I put that squarely on the coaches

Kapanen would currently be one point off our best bottom six forward's point production in Eller with his St. Louis numbers.

I dunno. The team last year was much better than the team we have this year.

They suffered multiple injuries that we've avoided this year. We've had none outside of Rust, Rakell, and Smith.

Blueger, Jarry, Pettersson, Rutta, Letang, Petry, and Poehling all missed time.

We had all of our RHD missing upwards of 10+ games last year.

I'm not sure Dumo was not better than Graves.

The top six was much, much better with Zucker.

The D as a unit was better. This year we don't really have a single functioning pairing on D that I feel confident behind. We had Pettersson - Karlsson, but they broke it up.

The team last year was devastated by injury and still barely missed the playoffs.

This team has literally never been in the playoffs.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

They are not better defensively lol.





Must be nice to drink the koolaid.

Sixth in goals against per game at 2.60 compared to 19th at 3.21 last year.

From 25th to 16th in shots allowed per game.

From 16th to 9th in PK%.

Third best save percentage in the league after being 14th last year.

The results speak for themselves.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Also... one would think I'd be used to the feeling by now but I can't get over how unbelievably stupid I feel for thinking that this team was going to be a relatively easy playoff participant. And that they'd be a lot more fun to watch.

Boy I tell ya what... those halcyon days of the always-upbeat and eternally optimistic McHurt are over!

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Kapanen would currently be one point off our best bottom six forward's point production in Eller with his St. Louis numbers.

I dunno. The team last year was much better than the team we have this year.

They suffered multiple injuries that we've avoided this year. We've had none outside of Rust, Rakell, and Smith.

Blueger, Jarry, Pettersson, Rutta, Letang, Petry, and Poehling all missed time.

We had all of our RHD missing upwards of 10+ games last year.

No injuries this year...except those to half of the top six.

Injuries to Blueger and Poehling mattered last year, but not those to Acciari and Nieto?

And Kapanen has played exclusively in the top six for St. Louis this year and still has all of four goals.

I may be stubbornly pro-Sullivan, but this is just outlandish.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sixth in goals against per game at 2.60 compared to 19th at 3.21 last year.

From 25th to 16th in shots allowed per game.

From 16th to 9th in PK%.

Third best save percentage in the league after being 14th last year.

The results speak for themselves.

Our goalies have gone from a total of 6.9 GSAA to 18.5 GSAA.

That accounts for most of those metrics.

 

[Zbynek]

Since this doofus keeps coming up time and time again I'll say it once more: Kapanen is a complete dipshit. He'll be in Europe by this time next year.

 

[Gurglesons]

No injuries this year...except those to half of the top six.

Injuries to Blueger and Poehling mattered last year, but not those to Acciari and Nieto?

And Kapanen has played exclusively in the top six for St. Louis this year and still has all of four goals.

I may be stubbornly pro-Sullivan, but this is just outlandish.

Acciari is six of the total games Blueger played last year. Unless he has a very serious concussion. It will not be comparable.

The roster last year had the ability to absorb injury to some degree to still be competitive with their defense and forward group.

It hasn't this year.

Isn't that kinda of proof of it being worse than last year?

Also Rakell and Smith are currently on pace for 40 points.

The roster just sucks this year. I don't know why we are defending it.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Sixth in goals against per game at 2.60 compared to 19th at 3.21 last year.

From 25th to 16th in shots allowed per game.

From 16th to 9th in PK%.

Third best save percentage in the league after being 14th last year.

The results speak for themselves.

Well to be fair, I think many of the metrics you mentioned are goaltending driven. We were brutal in net last year.

I think a fair comparison is HDCF and HDCA. To me, that's the best measure of a macro team defense.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well to be fair, I think many of the metrics you mentioned are goaltending driven. We were brutal in net last year.

I think a fair comparison is HDCF and HDCA. To me, that's the best measure of a macro team defense.

We've gotten worse in that stat.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Well to be fair, I think many of the metrics you mentioned are goaltending driven. We were brutal in net last year.

I think a fair comparison is HDCF and HDCA. To me, that's the best measure of a macro team defense.

I mean, none of it is isolated. It's all intertwined.

If it works collectively, does it really matter which portion is doing the heavier lifting?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean, none of it is isolated. It's all intertwined.

If it works collectively, does it really matter which portion is doing the heavier lifting?

You're right. It doesn't really matter how you get there... it's the destination.

Which is why they are sitting pretty right now and playing some great hock... oh wait.

I'm not trying to be mean but who cares if they are "great defensively?" They still suck and are just now more boring than ever. Terrific.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Kapanen would currently be one point off our best bottom six forward's point production in Eller with his St. Louis numbers.

I dunno. The team last year was much better than the team we have this year.

They suffered multiple injuries that we've avoided this year. We've had none outside of Rust, Rakell, and Smith.

Blueger, Jarry, Pettersson, Rutta, Letang, Petry, and Poehling all missed time.

We had all of our RHD missing upwards of 10+ games last year.

I'm not sure Dumo was not better than Graves.

The top six was much, much better with Zucker.

The D as a unit was better. This year we don't really have a single functioning pairing on D that I feel confident behind. We had Pettersson - Karlsson, but they broke it up.

The team last year was devastated by injury and still barely missed the playoffs.

This team has literally never been in the playoffs.

You're going to hang your hat on what Kap is doing when his usage is quite different in StL vs what he ever experienced here? I'm too lazy to look at the stats but I'm going to guess he's gotten more ice time and therefore more opportunity to put up points from just a volume metric.

Zucker vs Smith has been debated. We essentially thought it would be a wash. We'd lose Zucker's physicality/forechecking in exchange for Smith being a better all around player/IQ.

Dumo being better than Graves? Eh, if you want to give a slight nod to Dumo ok. But again ON PAPER Graves looked to be an upgrade

And that is where you are confusing my original post. Forget what has happened. Just look at the team on paper.

I'll die on this hill that this team on paper is better than what was iced last year. Dubas can't control chemistry and whatever Sullivan the doofus has decided to do behind the bench to ruin this team's chances.

 

[Gurglesons]

You're going to hang your hat on what Kap is doing when his usage is quite different in StL vs what he ever experienced here? I'm too lazy to look at the stats but I'm going to guess he's gotten more ice time and therefore more opportunity to put up points from just a volume metric.

Zucker vs Smith has been debated. We essentially thought it would be a wash. We'd lose Zucker's physicality/forechecking in exchange for Smith being a better all around player/IQ.

Dumo being better than Graves? Eh, if you want to give a slight nod to Dumo ok. But again ON PAPER Graves looked to be an upgrade

And that is where you are confusing my original post. Forget what has happened. Just look at the team on paper.

I'll die on this hill that this team on paper is better than what was iced last year. Dubas can't control chemistry and whatever Sullivan the doofus has decided to do behind the bench to ruin this team's chances.

I mean go ahead and die on that hill.

The team had better offensive players last year which is obviously happening within the league with Blueger, Heinen, Kapanen, etc producing more than our bottom six group.

If you are going to use "playing top six minutes" as an excuse for Kapanen. DOC and Eller have both seen minutes in the top six too.

Anyone that watches hockey knows this is a worse offensive team. The concept was it may be better defensively. It hasn't been.

I mean, none of it is isolated. It's all intertwined.

If it works collectively, does it really matter which portion is doing the heavier lifting?

We are not better defensively though. We have a healthy # 1 goaltender. If Jarry was healthy last year he is probably putting up similar numbers instead of us playing Desmith 38 games.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I mean, none of it is isolated. It's all intertwined.

If it works collectively, does it really matter which portion is doing the heavier lifting?

That's not an accurate statement. HD Chances have nothing to do with your goalie. Whether he saves those chances or not, IS goalie dependent.

I don't go on this site often so please call me out on what I'm viewing and calculating

I looked at HDC F/A this season vs last. I used 49 games as my divider for this year

From just this metric, the Pens generated more High Danger chances last year. But they cut down on their HD Chances Against. The delta for each category is about 1. So seems like they have slightly bettered their team defense and slightly fell back on creating offense.

This season:
HDCF: 10.69
HDCA: 9.59

Last
HDCF: 11.95
HDCA: 10.31

Pittsburgh Penguins Team Report

I mean go ahead and die on that hill.

The team had better offensive players last year which is obviously happening within the league with Blueger, Heinen, Kapanen, etc producing more than our bottom six group.

If you are going to use "playing top six minutes" as an excuse for Kapanen. DOC and Eller have both seen minutes in the top six too.

Anyone that watches hockey knows this is a worse offensive team. The concept was it may be better defensively. It hasn't been.

Check out my subsequent post. You're right we are worse offensively, but better defensively as a whole

 

[Mr. T]

Please, his name is Sexy Skeletor and you will address him as such.

Why did the FBI contact me as soon as I googled that?

 

[Pancakes]

I mean, he's exactly what this team needs as a 2C so Geno can move to wing, but yeah it's a shame he chose the Rangers over playing for Sully, which shows he has some intelligence actually.

I don't care. f*** him.

 

[Andy99]

Lol…Sullivan is always talking about fixing players’ games and everything the coaching staff is doing in that regard…and yet they’re worse doo doo than before and the team is worse for it…maybe they need to figure out that they’re terrible at “fixing” players and stop meddling lol

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Lol…Sullivan is always talking about fixing players’ games and everything the coaching staff is doing in that regard…and yet they’re worse doo doo than before and the team is worse for it…maybe they need to figure out that they’re terrible and stop meddling lol

He's not wrong. Malkin can't bulldoze his way through teams like he could, and when he tries it ends poorly.

Sullivan said this team needs to play differently to win. He's right. And when they've done it, it's worked. Colorado. Vegas. The first Winnipeg game. They've completely shut down good teams.

They just don't do it consistently, and their offense has continued to be a problem where they've lost games they should have won.

 

[Andy99]

He's not wrong. Malkin can't bulldoze his way through teams like he could, and when he tries it ends poorly.

Sullivan said this team needs to play differently to win. He's right. And when they've done it, it's worked. Colorado. Vegas. The first Winnipeg game. They've completely shut down good teams.

They just don't do it consistently, and their offense has continued to be a problem where they've lost games they should have won.

He may be right in a vacuum but the results suck so it doesn’t matter…the players can’t execute his vision consistently so what does it matter

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They are robbing Peter to pay Paul and it isn't working. You can get these guys to play better defense and "adjust their games"... great... grand... terrific. But if it's at the cost of the team's sum offense and they aren't any better and in fact worse in the standings for it then what are we really doing, here? Meddling for the sake of "I'm doing SOMETHING see?!?"

 

[Gurglesons]

Lol…Sullivan is always talking about fixing players’ games and everything the coaching staff is doing in that regard…and yet they’re worse doo doo than before and the team is worse for it…maybe they need to figure out that they’re terrible at “fixing” players and stop meddling lol

It's weird how every player they "fix" is somehow worse.

He's not wrong. Malkin can't bulldoze his way through teams like he could, and when he tries it ends poorly.

Sullivan said this team needs to play differently to win. He's right. And when they've done it, it's worked. Colorado. Vegas. The first Winnipeg game. They've completely shut down good teams.

They just don't do it consistently, and their offense has continued to be a problem where they've lost games they should have won.

Maybe Malkin can't make ineffective wingers good. Can't wait to see what Sid looks like after Jake gets traded for futures.

 

[Invalid cuz QoC]

Lol…Sullivan is always talking about fixing players’ games and everything the coaching staff is doing in that regard…and yet they’re worse doo doo than before and the team is worse for it…maybe they need to figure out that they’re terrible at “fixing” players and stop meddling lol

Fire this clown, what a dumbass quote. And I mean that by his approach not overall message. Set them up for success don’t reinvent the wheel.