Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[Honour Over Glory]

I think it's possible Dubas believes in Sullivan, but even if he doesn't, he knows FSG likes him and they owe him a lot of money. So if Dubas wanted to fire him, he's going to have to have an ironclad defense for why.

I'd imagine after going and getting him a Norris Trophy defenseman and the defensive plugs that are so crucial to run his system, if they miss the playoffs again, that'll be enough to fire Sullivan. If it's not, I won't even be able to pretend to give a shit about this team next year.

Missing the playoffs last season, multiple first round exits, bounced out of play in series to miss the playoffs but apparently they don’t count it for some dumb reason, the misusage of multiple players that have gone on to succeed elsewhere, etc apparently isn’t enough and missing the playoff this year apparently isn’t enough, inconsistent play this season carried over from last isn’t enough enough and in between all of that horse shit this stupid f*** got an extension which is just beyond ridiculous to begin with.

If the ownership is blocking a terrible coach from being fired, then why the f*** did they hire Dubas in the dual role he’s in? If you can’t trust your GM to do the move he needs to do, to fix this team, then why even bother keeping the core? If all FSG gives a shit about is profits, then they have to understand winning = more profit. A coach that has enough evidence of not being a good coach anymore for the last 7yrs should be ample evidence to move on. They can’t be afraid of paying Sullivan his 5.5m/yr the next 2 seasons for being fired vs the risk of him doing continuous damage to this team and its future, can it?

Gerard Gallant was fired May 23rd, he had 2 more years left on his contract at 3.5m/yr, he’s being paid for this season and next. I mean coaches can include a buyout clause if they get fired, but most keep getting paid unless they get hired by someone else. Are the Pens that dire for money to tank a team this badly with a coach that sucks that paying him until he finds a new job is hard to swallow? Or do they not think Sullivan can get a new job right away?

Blues also fired Berube, he has another year left on his deal as well as this season he’s getting his 3.5m/yr.

Also holy f***, why is Mike Sullivan being paid 5.5m/yr on an extension signed in 2022? His final year of the previous contract he misses the playoffs, now as the highest paid NHL coach, he’s doing a sequel. In the 4yrs before the extension he was swept in the 1st round, bounced in the play in series, then 2 first round exits, who the f*** earns that contract given that? Even Bruce Cassidy is just getting 4.5m/yr.

We'd lose at least two regular poster when that happens, it would seem.

I just can’t understand what this coach has done the last 7yrs that makes them think he’s heaven sent and should not be on the hot seat at all. I just don’t get it. What the f*** are they seeing that the rest of the hockey world isn’t? Pens Media being the puppets that they are, they will never dig into the many issues under Sullivan that seemingly go unreported. It’s funny how even the usual clowns that love to shit all over the Pens ex players for not doing well, are very very quiet on the ones that have done well away from Sullivan since leaving.

They’ll wax poetic about being Pens picks and their time on the Pens, but no mention of how good they’ve been away from the Pens. Yohe, Rossi, Jesse, Kingerski, Madden, etc, none of those clowns will mention how Blueger, Lafferty, Sprong, etc are doing well in better usage. Gutless wonders.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Puustinen only with 4 points in the NHL since December 27. Coincidentally, that's also when he stopped exceeding 11-minutes per game.

 

[Pens1566]

Some day, this thread title will read "Mike Sullivan has been fired", and that's gonna kick ass.

Yeah, but how many of "us" will still be alive to see it????

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Puustinen only with 4 points in the NHL since December 27. Coincidentally, that's also when he stopped exceeding 11-minutes per game.

Not entirely right.

After December 23rd, he didn’t play more than 10mins in any game. December 27th was his highest TOI after the 23rd at 10:52. He was getting minutes as low as 5:31.

To have the the Points per 60 he had even while being shafted to the 3rd line, still indicated that when he was played, he produced and even when he was demoted, he was still good for production if he was given minutes, which he rarely was. So you have a player that has proven he can produce with his Goals P/60, Assists P/60 and Points P/60, but they decided to demote him anyway?

The powerplay was also playing better when Puustinen was on it, it was converting at a better rate, but at some point they took him off and either it was Rust or Rakell that took his place and then it just went back to the flaccid state that we know it as. But for the moment Puustinen was on it, they were producing at a top 5 clip on the man advantage.

The point isn’t that Puustinen is some 80pt winger, it‘s that he showed chemistry with Malkin, looked good at both ends, was creating when he was able to play and his analytics backed up his strong play and yet he was demoted for it - That is f***ing bizarre. You can look at the stats and minimize it to “well 4pts…” but when you add in the context, it’s well beyond that.

Even if you just look at December 27-31st, he put up 1G 2A or 3PTS in 3 Games and was getting under 8mins of ice time for a few games in a row at that point outside of the first game where he had 10:52 and then 7:37, 7:37, etc. Also his usage on the powerplay wasn’t even so much that he was putting up points, it was his movement. Puustinen wasn’t static. He was skating into open slots and creating issues for the PK because the Pens being static is typical, but when a winger keeps moving into shooting lanes, they have to respect that and keep an eye which left open lanes for others, if you go back and watch those power plays with Puustinen, it’s painfully obvious. He rarely stands around in one spot like the Pens typical unit of players do.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Also from Jan 2nd to 27th - Doc has 4pts, Eller has 4pts, Puustinen had 1pt. DOC was up and down on the 2nd and 3rd line, Puustinen was playing a good 6-7mins less than them per game, or even half as much in some.

This reminds me of when Morozov was on the 4th line and wasn’t producing and everyone figured, well, a bust obviously. Oh wait, he’s in the top 6 and he produced, wtf, you mean to tell me skilled wingers put in top 6 positions can produce and not in grinder roles? Well f***, who would have thought something as insane as that, could be a possibility?

Back then the Pens had insane depth in the top 6 until they didn’t and had to give him a shot. Right now the Pens aren’t exactly firing on all cylinders and to ignore that as an option to give Colin f***ing White over 12mins with Geno? Lol…Since Colin White has been up, he’s averaged more ice time than Puustinen in that same span. Remind me how many pts White has?

 

[Darren McCord]

They have in smaller doses. Brian Boyle ended up playing a lot and having some success on the fourth line. Carter plays that way, too. They need younger versions of those types of players.

I also think they tried to see if they could get along by doubling down on speed and it hasn't worked. They're still not playing fast enough to truly counter other teams. They're kind of caught in no-man's land, where they're not fast enough to out pace teams or strong enough to out-muscle teams. Since everyone plays with some pace now, they need to add strength.

Then why not try carter net front on the PP?

Why do you think Sullivan would even want a player like that. This team refuses to use a net front presence and wants to go for deflections on the net. That's literally their whole PP scheme.

You are asking them to get players who I actually don't think they want.

 

[Andy99]

delete

 

[Andy99]

They have in smaller doses. Brian Boyle ended up playing a lot and having some success on the fourth line. Carter plays that way, too. They need younger versions of those types of players.

I also think they tried to see if they could get along by doubling down on speed and it hasn't worked. They're still not playing fast enough to truly counter other teams. They're kind of caught in no-man's land, where they're not fast enough to out pace teams or strong enough to out-muscle teams. Since everyone plays with some pace now, they need to add strength.

Your ability to draft replies that implicitly deflect blame from Sullivan is impressive….

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Then why not try carter net front on the PP?

Why do you think Sullivan would even want a player like that. This team refuses to use a net front presence and wants to go for deflections on the net. That's literally their whole PP scheme.

You are asking them to get players who I actually don't think they want.

I mean, I'd try anything on the PP. I'd try Carter net front. Eller might actually be my first choice, as he's a bit more fleet of foot and can hunt loose pucks.

I think the management of the power play is one of the strongest arguments for firing Sullivan and I've said that on multiple occasions.

 

[SEALBound]

I think Puustinen is likely our new Simon, meaning is he someone that you can put in the top 6 and he won't look out of place and will get a couple points every now and then but then you drop him to the bottom 6 and he's near replacement level.

He's a top 6 or bust player but that tracks with what a lot of us said earlier.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Things going well...

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I think Puustinen is likely our new Simon, meaning is he someone that you can put in the top 6 and he won't look out of place and will get a couple points every now and then but then you drop him to the bottom 6 and he's near replacement level.

He's a top 6 or bust player but that tracks with what a lot of us said earlier.

Looked better in the top 6 then some current wingers.

Who knows if he will be back or not but I guess it's better to play 15 to 20 a night then like 7.

Just no idea why he couldn't stay beside Malkin.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm totally fine with moving Karlsson, I'd just like to point out how laughable our attempts to integrate him into the team were. lmao.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm totally fine with moving Karlsson, I'd just like to point out how laughable our attempts to integrate him into the team were. lmao.

Imagine acquiring the best offensive defenseman of his generation coming off a 100 point season, knowing full well he plays a "riverboat gambler-like" game and has done so for well over a decade in this league, and having the ARROGANCE to say you're going to try and turn him into a better all around player.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm totally fine with moving Karlsson, I'd just like to point out how laughable our attempts to integrate him into the team were. lmao.

The moment Sully started saying some dumb bullshit about thinking he can help elevate EK's game I knew we were in for a beautiful run.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm totally fine with moving Karlsson, I'd just like to point out how laughable our attempts to integrate him into the team were. lmao.

I get what you're saying and I agree. But I'm not THAT fine with it considering it just shows how moronic this team was to acquire him in the first place if this is how they intended to use him only to toss him away when he wasn't Swedish Chad Ruhwedel or whatever.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I get what you're saying and I agree. But I'm not THAT fine with it considering it just shows how moronic this team was to acquire him in the first place if this is how they intended to use him only to toss him away when he wasn't Swedish Chad Ruhwedel or whatever.

Oh don't get me wrong my dude, if we didn't acquire him for pure trash, I'd be royally pissed.

I just think it's another great example of coaching incompetence, like Bylsma and Iginla.

Imagine acquiring the best offensive defenseman of his generation coming off a 100 point season, knowing full well he plays a "riverboat gambler-like" game and has done so for well over a decade in this league, and having the ARROGANCE to say you're going to try and turn him into a better all around player.

Well you can't teach stat lines like this:

72 GP

5 G

4 A

9 P

16 PIM

-6

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Oh don't get me wrong my dude, if we didn't acquire him for pure trash, I'd be royally pissed.

I just think it's another great example of coaching incompetence, like Bylsma and Iginla.

No no no no... you see... the GM and the GM alone makes the moves and trades. The coach has no input and clearly now he and Kyle aren't on the same page, either. Even though we were assured they were and already had a whiz-bang relationship and lockstep understanding of team needs from the word go. But not now... now that things are looking dicey it's all on the GM.

Again.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Oh don't get me wrong my dude, if we didn't acquire him for pure trash, I'd be royally pissed.

I just think it's another great example of coaching incompetence, like Bylsma and Iginla.


Well you can't teach stat lines like this:

72 GP

5 G

4 A

9 P

16 PIM

-6

Hey now, in fairness with PP time Karlsson gets, he might have hit 10 points to go along with that sparkling +/- rating.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's amazing how GM #3 just can't seem to get on the same page as Mike Sullivan regarding player acquisition and usage.

Hey now, in fairness with PP time Karlsson gets, he might have hit 10 points to go along with that sparkling +/- rating.

Only Mike Sullivan can make you into a 9 point scorer because, buddy, he's been there.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's amazing how GM #3 just can't seem to get on the same page as Mike Sullivan regarding player acquisition and usage.


Only Mike Sullivan can make you into a 9 point scorer because, buddy, he's been there.

Considering Sullivan's and Bylsma's obsession with certain types of players who play like they did, I'm thinking our next coaching hire should be a former 100 point player whose entire game was built off of skill and creativity.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It's amazing how GM #3 just can't seem to get on the same page as Mike Sullivan regarding player acquisition and usage.

GMs and coaches operate totally in a vacuum. The GM's job description is to make trades and construct the roster totally independent of any input at all. The coach's job is to be super awesome and handsome and drag this gaggle of doofs against their will to success and he can't really be be assigned blame because like... players get old and willful and stuff. And besides like I said... it's the GM that puts the team together and just dumps it on the poor coach's lap to sort out!

Really you have to feel bad for Mike Sullivan. He has it hard.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, Auston Matthews can shoot, but can he PK on Mike Sullivan's Team USA Olympic squad?

 

[SEALBound]

Looked better in the top 6 then some current wingers.

Who knows if he will be back or not but I guess it's better to play 15 to 20 a night then like 7.

Just no idea why he couldn't stay beside Malkin.

I have two thoughts on that:
1. Smith, DOC, Rakell, Rust are all better than Puustinen so I get it.
2. I totally agree and wish that we used that as a means to spread out talent to the 3rd line:

Jake-Sid-Rakell
DOC-Malkin-Puustinen
Smith-Eller-Rust

But...Sullivan.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think the Karlsson thing is completely overblown. He's on pace for career norms and that's while clearly not being completely in sync.

There is ample evidence of a longer learning curve for new defensemen in this organization, including pre-Sullivan.

Karlsson can be a difference maker and has more to provide, but he's a ways down the list of this team's problems.