Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Yes, Sully is still the coach

[DesertedPenguin]

Lamo its cost like almost 6 million dollars. Its hurting you. You cant get rid of accari or carter but if you swap out Harkins maybe you can get more production.

For a 6 million dollar 4th line you better be getting more than that.

Carter makes over half of that 6 million, skewing the cost.

Harkins makes $100k over the league minimum. To get more production you're probably paying more. In fact, if you promote Poulin, you're paying $16k more.

That's why the cost is a red herring.

The fourth line is down the list of problems. It's far more important to get this team's power play going, to get Malkin's line going, and to help Eller's line become more consistent offensively because he's the only one who has been producing on it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It doesn't matter if Carter skews the cost if he's still on the line.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It doesn't matter if Carter skews the cost if he's still on the line.

If you ignore a big part of the problem, there's no longer a problem. Duh!

 

[HandshakeLine]

If you ignore a big part of the problem, there's no longer a problem. Duh!

It's sure something alright.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

God I can’t wait until this season is over and we don’t have to talk about Jeff Carter anymore. What an asinine extension that was.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

It doesn't matter if Carter skews the cost if he's still on the line.

Carter is on pace for 10 goals in an 82 game season. That's fine for a fourth liner.

I'd like to replace him with someone younger, but he's not a massive problem.

 

[pistolpete11]

He had four points with Malkin, three points with Eller. He was fine with Malkin, but it wasn't like he was lighting the world on fire.

4 points in 7 games is pretty good, especially for this team.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Carter is on pace for 10 goals in an 82 game season. That's fine for a fourth liner.

I'd like to replace him with someone younger, but he's not a massive problem.

You just said we can't complain about the cost of the 4th line because Carter's on it. And that we can't take the cost of that line into consideration because it's Carter.

So what exactly do you mean?

4 points in 7 games is pretty good, especially for this team.

If only he was pacing for 10 goals and with a cap hit of 2.5 million more.

 

[SomeDude]

The only reason I watch this team anymore is Sid as he climbs up the points ladder. It’s not entertaining, or at least entertaining enough to warrant 3 hours of my attention. It feels like a chore at this point.

It’s beyond frustrating that an idiot like me can say in August this team is going to pretty much suck because we have 0 depth players that even know what offense is and they would find a way to mess up the PP. Yet, here we are again. Different year, different GM, a lot of different players, same coach, same problems, same results.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

You just said we can't complain about the cost of the 4th line because Carter's on it. And that we can't take the cost of that line into consideration because it's Carter.

So what exactly do you mean?

I said Carter's cost skews the perception that the 4th line is expensive. Ideally you have someone younger and less expensive.

But regardless of cost, his goal production is fine for a 4th liner cast in a more defensive role.

 

[Darren McCord]

Carter makes over half of that 6 million, skewing the cost.

Harkins makes $100k over the league minimum. To get more production you're probably paying more. In fact, if you promote Poulin, you're paying $16k more.

That's why the cost is a red herring.

The fourth line is down the list of problems. It's far more important to get this team's power play going, to get Malkin's line going, and to help Eller's line become more consistent offensively because he's the only one who has been producing on it.

But what if you put Poulin on the 4th line and net front on the PP? What if he then helps the PP and the fourth line. Sullivan has brainwashed people into thinking people below the top 6 cant contribute to the PP.

Also what if putting Puustinen or Poulin with Malkin helps that line. Put Smith on line 4 for all I care. He PK's at least where Harkins doesn't.

Not I am not saying Poulin is the answer. But I am saying that the fourth line can have impact and it shouldnt be left alone because it gives you a net 0.

 

[SomeDude]

But what if you put Poulin on the 4th line and net front on the PP? What if he then helps the PP and the fourth line. Sullivan has brainwashed people into thinking people below the top 6 cant contribute to the PP.

Also what if putting Puustinen or Poulin with Malkin helps that line. Put Smith on line 4 for all I care. He PK's at least where Harkins doesn't.

Not I am not saying Poulin is the answer. But I am saying that the fourth line can have impact and it shouldnt be left alone because it gives you a net 0.

Nah man, just do the same thing and expect different results. Thats totally sane.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Some day, this thread title will read "Mike Sullivan has been fired", and that's gonna kick ass.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

But what if you put Poulin on the 4th line and net front on the PP? What if he then helps the PP and the fourth line. Sullivan has brainwashed people into thinking people below the top 6 cant contribute to the PP.

Also what if putting Puustinen or Poulin with Malkin helps that line. Put Smith on line 4 for all I care. He PK's at least where Harkins doesn't.

Not I am not saying Poulin is the answer. But I am saying that the fourth line can have impact and it shouldnt be left alone because it gives you a net 0.

I'm not a believer in Puustinen like you and others are, but I've said for a week or two that Poulin should be in the NHL now. I've suggested putting him with Eller and Puljujarvi.

Look, I'm not saying the fourth line is perfect and shouldn't be touched. It's just not a priority for me. I wouldn't play Poulin on it, because I think he should play more than the fourth line does.

What I've suggested is trading Rakell and Smith for pieces that would provide something different to the top nine, specifically with Malkin's line and perhaps the power play.

Get those pieces, promote Poulin, and then use remaining pieces to flesh out the fourth line.

 

[66-30-33]

Find it hilarious Pus is gone to the AHL. The guy was doing everything he needed to stay up when he was on the top 6 and PP1...wut? My god Sullivan is so stupid hahahahahaha!!!! he's so bad at coaching.

 

[SomeDude]

What I've suggested is trading Rakell and Smith for pieces that would provide something different to the top nine, specifically with Malkin's line and perhaps the power play.

I’m sure teams are lining up for those 2. At best, you’re getting another cap dump who has just as good a chance of not fitting.

Why not just fire the coach? Seems easier. A new coach with a different system might show those guys don’t actually suck. Would be refreshing to try that instead of watching another player go to another team and going back to not sucking.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I’m sure teams are lining up for those 2. At best, you’re getting another cap dump who has just as good a chance of not fitting.

Why not just fire the coach? Seems easier. A new coach with a different system might show those guys don’t actually suck. Would be refreshing to try that instead of watching another player go to another team and going back to not sucking.

I think Rakell and Smith should be traded regardless of who the coach is now or will be in the future.

I'm thinking of Perron for Hagelin, Scuderi for Daley types of deals. Rakell and Smith have talent and are clearly just in the midst of difficult seasons. They simply play a style that the Pens don't need.

 

[SomeDude]

I think Rakell and Smith should be traded regardless of who the coach is now or will be in the future.

I'm thinking of Perron for Hagelin, Scuderi for Daley types of deals. Rakell and Smith have talent and are clearly just in the midst of difficult seasons. They simply play a style that the Pens don't need.

To think you're gonna bat 1.000 like JR did pulling a rabbit out of his rear in 2016 is just fantasy. Rakell and his contract legitimately would be hard to move mid-season. Teams would likely take a chance on Smith given how he played before he got Sullied, but they're not going to pay much.

 

[Darren McCord]

I think Rakell and Smith should be traded regardless of who the coach is now or will be in the future.

I'm thinking of Perron for Hagelin, Scuderi for Daley types of deals. Rakell and Smith have talent and are clearly just in the midst of difficult seasons. They simply play a style that the Pens don't need.

I mean who fits the pens style? Like what is their style. I just see more players coming in to be ruined by sullivan.

Wasn't EK suppose to fit the system and be everything sullivan wanted only to be neutered.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I mean who fits the pens style? Like what is their style. I just see more players coming in to be ruined by sullivan.

Wasn't EK suppose to fit the system and be everything sullivan wanted only to be neutered.

I'm thinking of players who provide a missing element to this team, not those who fit a particular style. If one of them happens to be a center who can push Malkin to the wing, that's even better.

The Pens miss the Kunitz/Hornqvist element. They need guys who can play around the net, who have hands to finish plays and the physicality to withstand the pressure in that area. They don't need to be elite. They just need to have that mindset.

Rakell and Smith are fine players, but the Pens already have finesse players in Guentzel and Rust. They have another in Puustinen, if he ends up sticking in the NHL. Looking down the line, Yager isn't a physical specimen.

These specific players may not be available, but they fit the mold: Lawson Crouse, Joel Eriksson Ek, Anders Lee, etc.

 

[Andy99]

I'm thinking of players who provide a missing element to this team, not those who fit a particular style. If one of them happens to be a center who can push Malkin to the wing, that's even better.

The Pens miss the Kunitz/Hornqvist element. They need guys who can play around the net, who have hands to finish plays and the physicality to withstand the pressure in that area. They don't need to be elite. They just need to have that mindset.

Rakell and Smith are fine players, but the Pens already have finesse players in Guentzel and Rust. They have another in Puustinen, if he ends up sticking in the NHL. Looking down the line, Yager isn't a physical specimen.

These specific players may not be available, but they fit the mold: Lawson Crouse, Joel Eriksson Ek, Anders Lee, etc.

Kunitz and Hornqvist were acquired before Sullivan was hired…since he’s been here, those weren’t the kind of players he’s gravitated towards…Sullivan has been given full reign to get the kind of players he wants, especially so this off-season when Dubas took over…at what point are the failures of the last six years ever on this dude? The missing element players are 90% on him …

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Kunitz and Hornqvist were acquired before Sullivan was hired…since he’s been here, those weren’t the kind of players he’s gravitated towards…Sullivan has been given full reign to get the kind of players he wants, especially so this off-season when Dubas took over…at what point are the failures of the last six years ever on this dude? The missing element players are 90% on him …

They have in smaller doses. Brian Boyle ended up playing a lot and having some success on the fourth line. Carter plays that way, too. They need younger versions of those types of players.

I also think they tried to see if they could get along by doubling down on speed and it hasn't worked. They're still not playing fast enough to truly counter other teams. They're kind of caught in no-man's land, where they're not fast enough to out pace teams or strong enough to out-muscle teams. Since everyone plays with some pace now, they need to add strength.

 

[Fordy]

They have in smaller doses. Brian Boyle ended up playing a lot and having some success on the fourth line. Carter plays that way, too. They need younger versions of those types of players.

I also think they tried to see if they could get along by doubling down on speed and it hasn't worked. They're still not playing fast enough to truly counter other teams. They're kind of caught in no-man's land, where they're not fast enough to out pace teams or strong enough to out-muscle teams. Since everyone plays with some pace now, they need to add strength.

what was blueger?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Some day, this thread title will read "Mike Sullivan has been fired", and that's gonna kick ass.

We'd lose at least two regular poster when that happens, it would seem.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

what was blueger?

Not physical? His game is based on positioning, some speed and agility, not muscling someone out of the way.

Hell, his frequent linemate ZAR typically had more than double Blueger's hits over the course of a season.

Speaking of hits, they're an imperfect stat, but they can provide at least a little of a barometer. In 2016-17, the first full year under Sullivan, the Pens had seven skaters with over 100 hits for the season. Hornqvist and Kunitz were over 200.

This year, they have three guys on pace for over 100. Crosby is 4th on the team in hits.

They don't need guys like Archibald or Jack Johnson, who abandoned responsibilities to chase hits. But there is an element of physicality missing from this team. Guys who can separate an opponent from the puck, who can plant themselves in front of the net, who can muscle through board battles.

I didn't expect this to be an issue to start the season, but it's clear in nearly every game how weak the Pens are just along the boards.

We'd lose at least two regular poster when that happens, it would seem.

As long as they replace him with someone with fresh ideas, I'm cool. If it's some retread, good ol' boy hire, I'll be pissed.