Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Dont look now, but we are good again!

Pancakes

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So…
Full honestly, what are the chances of resigning Jake in the off-season and making the universe whole again?
There is no chance they bring back Guentzel. They only have 12 million or so in cap space I think. Spending 9-10 of that on one player isn't going to happen, and I doubt Jake is taking a discount to come back here after the Pens just traded him.

They'd have to clear out salary to bring him back and there's not a lot of players on the roster that are tradeable.
 

vodeni

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Oct 27, 2010
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Sullivan doesn’t care, as he’s shown repeatedly lol

Lol…”and my continuing to play Harkins is proof of that”


how about showing a little faith...I'll put some money on Pens making playoffs..

So…
Full honestly, what are the chances of resigning Jake in the off-season and making the universe whole again?

A lot depends on how the squad performs down the stretch…

If they do well, chances are higher.

What irks me is Sully couldn’t sort out the distraction and have the team show up against the Caps. At least lose 4-3 in OT.

I’m hoping for at least effort tonight. Who know, mental weakness is a Penguins staple.

or..
Maybe the start of Sully actually having lost the team. Motivation is one of the biggest things a coach brings to the table.

So much rambling on my part…lol.

Ps….
I expect Bunting to play with Crosby, not Malkin. Shiny new toy and all.
Sid would be calling his buddy McKinnon
 

DesertPenguin

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Apr 22, 2015
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If the Pens had moved out a couple more guys and plugged in all the kids, I could have seen it maybe happen. Young hungry legs. This is just an objectively worse old and tired team.
 
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ZorkEnchanter

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Aug 16, 2020
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I mean what's he supposed to say the goal is? Also don't put too much money on it...
Exactly...

He doesn't know how to fix the PP so we'll continue to lag there.
All the other team has to do is weather the <= 1 period we actually try OR have a decent system and Sully can't win.

I think we get a Top 10 pick this year. Team looks done.
 
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Andy99

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I didn’t see it but another poster said PK Subban between periods of the Devils/Canes game put on a pair of glasses and mocked Dubas. Saying if I put glasses on can I be a GM etc.

Basically bashing him for "doing this" to Sid.



Chalk up another problem with this team…this is the main reason I didn’t want to re-sign Jarry…he’s a post All Star break loser lol

 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
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I had some hope yesterday that the organization was finally going in the right direction. Getting a fourth-rounder for Ruhwedel (I don't care what year) is highway robbery. The Guentzel deal hurt because of the player we lost, and I can't stand Michael f*&îing Bunting, but the overall package is acceptable under those circumstances. And then we were trading a goaltender, so I was getting my hopes up even more...

then I find out the goaltender traded was Hellberg for peanuts, Nedeljkovic was not traded AND the team kept Reilly Smith and Lars Eller.

At this point, this team is no longer a team. It is a corporation. There are way too many factors at play, way too many people making the decisions and way too many goals. This is sports. Sports is about winning. There should be only one goal. If you cannot win now, then you do whatever the hell is necessary to win in the near future.

I honestly don't know who calls the shots. We know it is not Sid (that has been out there for years) because he seems completely disconnected and disillusioned with the Guentzel situation. All we can go by with regards to Dubas is what he states. He stated that the team needed to get younger. So, the Penguins' idea of getting younger is dumping the No. 6 D, not replacing him, and trading a 29-year-old star for a middling 28-year-old LW.

It almost feels like somebody got to Dubas after the Ruhwedel deal was announced. You almost get the feeling that Sullivan told Dubas, "OK, you got your previous draft pick and now I am out a key defenseman. NO MORE TRADES!" It might have even been Sid, we don't know.

The be-careful-what-you-wish-for portion of this post states that Crosby and Sullivan are joined and unified. If Sullivan is still the coach, it may have to do with BOTH those above Dubas and the core players wanting him as the head coach. So, if we get rid of the coach, that could be the tipping point as far as Crosby wanting out is concerned.

They may want to remain a classy organization, but they have also become a completely dysfunctional franchise. And until that changes, I don't even know if Dubas can be evaluated properly. I mean, whether it is him or the people he hires to help him, his moves so far have been far better than the team's results imo. We clearly have holes. We are not very good. But on paper, we should be a bit better than we are. Coaching is a massive issue. But the constant lack of self awareness and organizational evaluation is killing this team. It has been for years now.

I will continue to believe that if given the opportunity (to get younger and retool on the fly), Dubas might be able to give the four core pieces a few more opportunities to challenge for the Cup. The optimist would say that Smith and Eller will only be around until next year's trade deadline at the latest, and we already have their replacements lined up (Koivunen for Smith; Ponomarev for Eller), we might be able to convince Guentzel to return and guys like Puustinen, Joseph, Ludvig and Bemstrom might continue to grow down the stretch.

But the pessimist in all of us knows better. We did not create any room for any youth to claim a spot in the lineup (aside from Ludvig). And as long as this coaching staff is behind the bench, they will always prefer more experienced "system" players over younger players with more upside. And that will not change.

Right now, I see the worst possible scenario for this franchise: we are spinning our wheels. Had they traded Smith, Eller and maybe one more player, you could see the plan (at least I could). Get younger, surround the four core pieces with youth, fresh legs, enthusiasm and potential. You hope you can hit a home run with one of these young pieces, whether it be Yager, Koivunen, Lucius, et al and you also hope we can use the available cap space to fill in the holes.

By not trading Smith and Eller, it makes the decision to trade Guentzel all the more foolish. If you are not getting younger, then why get worse? Hell, getting OLDER at this point would have made more sense than just rearranging deck chairs.

But I still maintain that somebody got to Dubas yesterday. They still believe they can somehow make the playoffs, and maybe they can. But not with this group, so what are we doing? Smith and Eller should have been traded for whatever you can get.

Let's see what happens this summer, but I am expecting the worst now. I am a NY Jets fan, I can do that.
 

Icarium

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Feb 16, 2010
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This year, Jarry's annual collapse was at least helpful for dashing all illusions as early as the first days of March, so attaboy Tristan!
 

Invalid cuz QoC

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Bunting hatty, beat bruins 7-0, Jake who. Playoffs back on, until next game when we lose 6-1, and bunting has two own goals, sid, Geno, letang break sticks throughout the game.
 

The Great Mighty Poo

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Bunting hatty, beat bruins 7-0, Jake who. Playoffs back on, until next game when we lose 6-1, and bunting has two own goals, sid, Geno, letang break sticks throughout the game.
trending GIFs | Macho man randy savage, Relaxing gif, Macho man
 
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Pancakes

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By not trading Smith and Eller, it makes the decision to trade Guentzel all the more foolish. If you are not getting younger, then why get worse? Hell, getting OLDER at this point would have made more sense than just rearranging deck chairs.
The extra years for Smith and Eller may have scared teams off even if Dubas tried to move them.

That said I definitely wanted a lot more change this TDL than we got. But I suppose Dubas was also limited somewhat by all the long contracts with nmc/ntcs that are on the team. Some of those he's responsible for, but many he isn't.
 

The Great Mighty Poo

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According to NHL.com Harkins is expected in the lineup and not listed as injured despite 2 noggins knockers and a broken hand and Sullivan already confirming yesterday he's out long term.
 

SEALBound

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I didn’t see it but another poster said PK Subban between periods of the Devils/Canes game put on a pair of glasses and mocked Dubas. Saying if I put glasses on can I be a GM etc.

Basically bashing him for "doing this" to Sid.



Chalk up another problem with this team…this is the main reason I didn’t want to re-sign Jarry…he’s a post All Star break loser lol


Standard Jarry trajectory.

Who didn't see that coming?
 
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ZorkEnchanter

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I didn’t see it but another poster said PK Subban between periods of the Devils/Canes game put on a pair of glasses and mocked Dubas. Saying if I put glasses on can I be a GM etc.

Basically bashing him for "doing this" to Sid.



Chalk up another problem with this team…this is the main reason I didn’t want to re-sign Jarry…he’s a post All Star break loser lol


This is also a problem of Sully's system.

They have to go all in by pressing / moving defense out of position to generate any kind of chance. It''s also led to an insane amount of odd man rushes. I think the broadcaster showed us in the TOP 5 earlier in the year. (not sure what it is now... don't care and barely watch this corpse of a coaching staff)

Pens are living in 2015-2016. Jarry isn't the type of goalie to have consistent success with our current system. (He'd do awesome in Carolina or some other defense system)
 

Andy99

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This is also a problem of Sully's system.

They have to go all in by pressing / moving defense out of position to generate any kind of chance. It''s also led to an insane amount of odd man rushes. I think the broadcaster showed us in the TOP 5 earlier in the year. (not sure what it is now... don't care and barely watch this corpse of a coaching staff)

Pens are living in 2015-2016. Jarry isn't the type of goalie to have consistent success with our current system. (He'd do awesome in Carolina or some other defense system)
Yeah but there’s no law against a goalie stopping a breakaway or SHG once in awhile lol…I see other goalies who do it regularly
 

ChaosAgent

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May 8, 2018
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This is also a problem of Sully's system.

They have to go all in by pressing / moving defense out of position to generate any kind of chance. It''s also led to an insane amount of odd man rushes. I think the broadcaster showed us in the TOP 5 earlier in the year. (not sure what it is now... don't care and barely watch this corpse of a coaching staff)

Pens are living in 2015-2016. Jarry isn't the type of goalie to have consistent success with our current system. (He'd do awesome in Carolina or some other defense system)

I mean our forecheck is pathetic. Opposing teams make one lateral pass from the boards just behind their own blue line to the other side and they easily clear 2 or all 3 forwards. Sully is not a good coach, but hopefully other teams still believe otherwise this summer.
 
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wheelz87

LGP
Jun 28, 2011
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I had some hope yesterday that the organization was finally going in the right direction. Getting a fourth-rounder for Ruhwedel (I don't care what year) is highway robbery. The Guentzel deal hurt because of the player we lost, and I can't stand Michael f*&îing Bunting, but the overall package is acceptable under those circumstances. And then we were trading a goaltender, so I was getting my hopes up even more...

then I find out the goaltender traded was Hellberg for peanuts, Nedeljkovic was not traded AND the team kept Reilly Smith and Lars Eller.

At this point, this team is no longer a team. It is a corporation. There are way too many factors at play, way too many people making the decisions and way too many goals. This is sports. Sports is about winning. There should be only one goal. If you cannot win now, then you do whatever the hell is necessary to win in the near future.

I honestly don't know who calls the shots. We know it is not Sid (that has been out there for years) because he seems completely disconnected and disillusioned with the Guentzel situation. All we can go by with regards to Dubas is what he states. He stated that the team needed to get younger. So, the Penguins' idea of getting younger is dumping the No. 6 D, not replacing him, and trading a 29-year-old star for a middling 28-year-old LW.

It almost feels like somebody got to Dubas after the Ruhwedel deal was announced. You almost get the feeling that Sullivan told Dubas, "OK, you got your previous draft pick and now I am out a key defenseman. NO MORE TRADES!" It might have even been Sid, we don't know.

The be-careful-what-you-wish-for portion of this post states that Crosby and Sullivan are joined and unified. If Sullivan is still the coach, it may have to do with BOTH those above Dubas and the core players wanting him as the head coach. So, if we get rid of the coach, that could be the tipping point as far as Crosby wanting out is concerned.

They may want to remain a classy organization, but they have also become a completely dysfunctional franchise. And until that changes, I don't even know if Dubas can be evaluated properly. I mean, whether it is him or the people he hires to help him, his moves so far have been far better than the team's results imo. We clearly have holes. We are not very good. But on paper, we should be a bit better than we are. Coaching is a massive issue. But the constant lack of self awareness and organizational evaluation is killing this team. It has been for years now.

I will continue to believe that if given the opportunity (to get younger and retool on the fly), Dubas might be able to give the four core pieces a few more opportunities to challenge for the Cup. The optimist would say that Smith and Eller will only be around until next year's trade deadline at the latest, and we already have their replacements lined up (Koivunen for Smith; Ponomarev for Eller), we might be able to convince Guentzel to return and guys like Puustinen, Joseph, Ludvig and Bemstrom might continue to grow down the stretch.

But the pessimist in all of us knows better. We did not create any room for any youth to claim a spot in the lineup (aside from Ludvig). And as long as this coaching staff is behind the bench, they will always prefer more experienced "system" players over younger players with more upside. And that will not change.

Right now, I see the worst possible scenario for this franchise: we are spinning our wheels. Had they traded Smith, Eller and maybe one more player, you could see the plan (at least I could). Get younger, surround the four core pieces with youth, fresh legs, enthusiasm and potential. You hope you can hit a home run with one of these young pieces, whether it be Yager, Koivunen, Lucius, et al and you also hope we can use the available cap space to fill in the holes.

By not trading Smith and Eller, it makes the decision to trade Guentzel all the more foolish. If you are not getting younger, then why get worse? Hell, getting OLDER at this point would have made more sense than just rearranging deck chairs.

But I still maintain that somebody got to Dubas yesterday. They still believe they can somehow make the playoffs, and maybe they can. But not with this group, so what are we doing? Smith and Eller should have been traded for whatever you can get.

Let's see what happens this summer, but I am expecting the worst now. I am a NY Jets fan, I can do that.
So well said. Either go for it or blow it up. Regardless, have a ****** plan and implement it.
 

ZorkEnchanter

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Aug 16, 2020
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Yeah but there’s no law against a goalie stopping a breakaway or SHG once in awhile lol…I see other goalies who do it regularly
He's not that goalie man... it's kinda why a lot of our players go to others and do decently well.

Remember me railing on Granlund? I said he would not do well here because of SULLIVAN. Sullivan is like that BOOMER GET OFF MY LAWN coach now. He only like what he likes and no one else gets any benefit of the doubt unless HE picked you.

I mean our forecheck is pathetic. Opposing teams make one lateral pass from the boards just behind their own blue line to the other side and they easily clear 2 or all 3 forwards. Sully is not a good coach, but hopefully other teams still believe otherwise this summer.

Once again agree... but your FORCHECK and positioning is also on the coach. If you don't have the speed anymore to do your system then you have to adapt.

Like others have said look at Boston and other teams that are just as old but someone seem to do fine and WE just suck ass.

Sullivan hand picked all these players and he's had 3 different bottom six's now. All failures... if Dubas gives him a 4th swing then Dubas is an idiot.

We'll see what happens when the season ends.
 
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wheelz87

LGP
Jun 28, 2011
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The extra years for Smith and Eller may have scared teams off even if Dubas tried to move them.

That said I definitely wanted a lot more change this TDL than we got. But I suppose Dubas was also limited somewhat by all the long contracts with nmc/ntcs that are on the team. Some of those he's responsible for, but many he isn't.
Could be true. I’d think there was *some* market for those guys though. Can’t imagine the asking price was too high. Smith hasn’t been great, or even good really this year. But I loved him on Vegas. no reason he can’t provide depth scoring for a playoff team. And Eller has had a great year. Any team should have been jumping to add him to the bottom 6.
 
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pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
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So…
Full honestly, what are the chances of resigning Jake in the off-season and making the universe whole again?

A lot depends on how the squad performs down the stretch…

If they do well, chances are higher.
I think more depends on the Canes than the Pens.

If the Canes fall flat on their faces, he's not there long enough to get comfortable, he doesn't play well and the Canes decide to focus on re-signing other guys, etc, he'll probably go to FA. Still think it's low, but maybe like 10% or something.

If they go on a deep run and Jake likes it there, almost zero.



I felt better about re-signing him before Dubas' press conference and Jake's interviews after the trade. Doesn't really even sound like they discussed a contract and Jake seemed shook by it. I think if it was going to happen, it needed to be a handshake agreement, but I got more of sense everyone knew this was the end. Who knows, though. Maybe Sid makes a few more phones calls like he did when Geno was going to FA.
 

Sidgeni Malkby

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Nov 19, 2008
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I think more depends on the Canes than the Pens.

If the Canes fall flat on their faces, he's not there long enough to get comfortable, he doesn't play well and the Canes decide to focus on re-signing other guys, etc, he'll probably go to FA. Still think it's low, but maybe like 10% or something.

If they go on a deep run and Jake likes it there, almost zero.

I felt better about re-signing him before Dubas' press conference and Jake's interviews after the trade. Doesn't really even sound like they discussed a contract and Jake seemed shook by it. I think if it was going to happen, it needed to be a handshake agreement, but I got more of sense everyone knew this was the end. Who knows, though. Maybe Sid makes a few more phones calls like he did when Geno was going to FA.
That sounds about right. If he fits and scores a bunch of goals, no reason why he would bail on a winning team to come back to our dumpster fire.

However if he doesn’t fit…
Then we have a decent chance signing him over other teams. Remember his wife is from Pittsburgh and I doubt he will move his family this season.
 

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