Speculation: Penguins off day talk thread: Dont look now, but we are good again!

[The Great Mighty Poo]

The few times I turn the dial to Madden’s show anymore it’s literally just an old man yelling at a cloud. It’s embarrassing at this point. Dude is angry at the world because the day he dies alone is getting nearer and nearer.

That and the fact he probably hasnt seen his own penis since the Nixon administration.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

@AuroraBorealis heres the fight you and I were discussing. Typical Canucks fans, burn the city down win or lose...

 

[HandshakeLine]

Lol dude trying to fight with a Bure jersey on? What on earth.

It's like striding up to someone to start some shit while wearing a Beau Bennett nameplate.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Also I am now convinced that dude has an account here, at the very least. lol.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

@AuroraBorealis heres the fight you and I were discussing. Typical Canucks fans, burn the city down win or lose...

Nice one. Would love to know what was said.

 

[66-30-33]

Nice one. Would love to know what was said.

Funny he was beating on the security guard...later.

The Penguin fan was probably talking about Letangs giveaway and Bure said "nobody cares".

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm listening to this and I'm hearing a ton of shit I've been saying for a couple of seasons...




One part I want to call out - not having slow players but playing slow and the Reilly Smith and the grocery analogy is bang on for what I have called out as a massive coaching issue - players playing slower because of the way they are being coached and not having the right direction..

But of course dipshits like Yohe, Rossi, Dejan, Molinari, etc will blame the players.

I don't like the back and forth Shirey goes with Sullivan. He wants to blame him but then doesn't want to blame him and he talks about usage and Acciari as a C all season etc and it's like mate, Dubas gets these blokes and Sullivan still uses the same types. Hinostroza was barely used. Gruden is finally back and being used, but Harkins isn't forced upon him, he's using him as a choice and same for Carter on the RW. They can blame Dubas for most of this all they want but in the end Sullivan is deciding on who plays.

They bring up Sprong which ironically Sullivan didn't even like - Sprong likes to shoot and on the Pens it seemed like anytime he did do what he was drafted for, he was punished for it. So ironic that they mention Sprong but completely ignore why that still wouldn't work on the Pens. The system being trash and then the way he wants them to play isn't a fit.

It's funny they also nail why Sullivan needs to go but idiotically can't figure it out and don't want to blame him - Sullivan is all about taking what the game gives you, whereas the issue is they wait for the other team to react and then go from there. What made the powerplay good and the system fun in 2015-2017 was they reacted quickly and dictated tempo and play. They made the PK react to them, they made the teams struggle to adjust to the quick bang bang defense to neutral zone to offensive zone transition.

Graves to me is just as much a victim as Smith. Both are players that thrived in a defined role that played quick and up tempo. On the Pens it's pretending to be methodical without a method.

 

[Pens1566]

Also I am now convinced that dude has an account here, at the very least. lol.

Probably that mod from the "Value of Jake Guentzel" thread on the main board.

 

[66-30-33]

I'm back from work...not fired yet?

I'm living in some weird warped reality arent I? literally any other team woulda canned him by now.

Wake up not Gordon Freeman, wake up!

 

[Darren McCord]

I'm listening to this and I'm hearing a ton of shit I've been saying for a couple of seasons...




One part I want to call out - not having slow players but playing slow and the Reilly Smith and the grocery analogy is bang on for what I have called out as a massive coaching issue - players playing slower because of the way they are being coached and not having the right direction..

But of course dipshits like Yohe, Rossi, Dejan, Molinari, etc will blame the players.

I don't like the back and forth Shirey goes with Sullivan. He wants to blame him but then doesn't want to blame him and he talks about usage and Acciari as a C all season etc and it's like mate, Dubas gets these blokes and Sullivan still uses the same types. Hinostroza was barely used. Gruden is finally back and being used, but Harkins isn't forced upon him, he's using him as a choice and same for Carter on the RW. They can blame Dubas for most of this all they want but in the end Sullivan is deciding on who plays.

They bring up Sprong which ironically Sullivan didn't even like - Sprong likes to shoot and on the Pens it seemed like anytime he did do what he was drafted for, he was punished for it. So ironic that they mention Sprong but completely ignore why that still wouldn't work on the Pens. The system being trash and then the way he wants them to play isn't a fit.

It's funny they also nail why Sullivan needs to go but idiotically can't figure it out and don't want to blame him - Sullivan is all about taking what the game gives you, whereas the issue is they wait for the other team to react and then go from there. What made the powerplay good and the system fun in 2015-2017 was they reacted quickly and dictated tempo and play. They made the PK react to them, they made the teams struggle to adjust to the quick bang bang defense to neutral zone to offensive zone transition.

Graves to me is just as much a victim as Smith. Both are players that thrived in a defined role that played quick and up tempo. On the Pens it's pretending to be methodical without a method.

I hope smith is traded and makes some public comments about how crappy Sullivan is. I just want a player to actually bring this up because it’s so obvious

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Lindy Ruff out in NJ.



Cue the "Why is Sullivan still here?" comments from Pens HF Boards.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Lindy Ruff out in NJ.



Cue the "Why is Sullivan still here?" comments from Pens HF Boards.

Yeah you're right. What's the point, now?

I sure know I feel better that they were patient and "evaluated" while "trusting the process." Did the team a fat lot of good, that. Pretty cool that they burned another year for the sake of a guy whose position is half a joke in this league.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

In all seriousness, this is an important note from Pierre LeBrun. NHL coaching contracts aren't worth the paper they're printed on. If Dubas and FSG feel its time to move on from Sullivan at any point here in the next few months, nothing is holding them back except their own willingness to do it.

 

[66-30-33]

Lindy Ruff out in NJ.



Cue the "Why is Sullivan still here?" comments from Pens HF Boards.

Why is Sullivan still here?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Love to be smug about other teams firing their losing coach, unlike us.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Yeah you're right. What's the point, now?

I sure know I feel better that they were patient and "evaluated" while "trusting the process." Did the team a fat lot of good, that.

I have advocated for an offseason coaching change because the pool of candidates is better.

Now, with no chance of making the playoffs, it's absolutely the right move to wait. You have 23 games left. A coaching change now risks giving you inaccurate data about your interim coach because of the small sample size, which could influence your full search in the offseason.

At this point, selling off players for future assets and then cleaning house with the coaching staff at the end of the year is the best of both worlds. You get younger, and then you have the largest pool of coaching candidates to bring someone in with fresh ideas.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I have advocated for an offseason coaching change because the pool of candidates is better.

Now, with no chance of making the playoffs, it's absolutely the right move to wait. You have 23 games left. A coaching change now risks giving you inaccurate data about your interim coach because of the small sample size, which could influence your full search in the offseason.

At this point, selling off players for future assets and then cleaning house with the coaching staff at the end of the year is the best of both worlds. You get younger, and then you have the largest pool of coaching candidates to bring someone in with fresh ideas.

Latching on to Mike Sullivan like grim death this whole year while the house burns down around you is a lazy, willfully stupid thing to do and I know you are a smart guy so it's genuinely confusing to me that you won't acknowledge it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I have advocated for an offseason coaching change because the pool of candidates is better.

Now, with no chance of making the playoffs, it's absolutely the right move to wait. You have 23 games left. A coaching change now risks giving you inaccurate data about your interim coach because of the small sample size, which could influence your full search in the offseason.

At this point, selling off players for future assets and then cleaning house with the coaching staff at the end of the year is the best of both worlds. You get younger, and then you have the largest pool of coaching candidates to bring someone in with fresh ideas.

Weird how every other team can fire their coach, but if we fire the coach there is a risk and it could cause issues!

Here's my issue. We are trading f***ing Jake Guentzel because we pissed yet another season down the drain with a failure of a coach who hasn't won anything in five years and thinks Harkins - Acciari - Carter provides this team an identity.

I think it may be really way more risky to latch onto that over accidentally hiring someone bad.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They could run with no coaches behind the bench and do stupid-but-cool shit on the ice, losing every game from here on out, and I'd be happy as long as Sullivan and Reirden were fired.

It's not about saving the season or salvaging the era; that shit's done. It's about firing guys who have failed repeatedly at their jobs for half a decade.

 

[vodeni]

Latching on to Mike Sullivan like grim death this whole year while the house burns down around you is a lazy, willfully stupid thing to do and I know you are a smart guy so it's genuinely confusing to me that you won't acknowledge it.

last four years

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Latching on to Mike Sullivan like grim death this whole year while the house burns down around you is a lazy, willfully stupid thing to do and I know you are a smart guy so it's genuinely confusing to me that you won't acknowledge it.

Eh, it's more that I didn't think - and still don't think - that firing Sullivan is the panacea that everyone hopes it would be. As much as I've banged the drum to fire Reirden and fix the power play, how many wins is it actually going to translate to?

This team is a lot slower and softer than I expected it to be. I don't care what anyone says about Sullivan - this team's refusal to go to the net and score dirty goals is a player problem, not a coaching problem. And the reason I say that is because they also lose board battles and individual puck battles on a regular basis, both of which are points of emphasis in Sullivan's system. How many times have we heard him say they need to be strong on pucks? Well, they're not.

I think any coaching change bump would have been fool's gold. And when that bump wore off, you'd be in a worse position as a franchise.

This is better. It forces them to sell at the deadline and in the offseason, while also laying the groundwork for a coaching change.

 

[cygnus47]

I doubt they do it, but screw it. Can Sully and Rierden and have JD Forrest as interim. If he gets anything going with whoever’s left over after the deadline he can have a year to try and make the team fun to watch again.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Why is Sullivan still here?

The Dark side is strong with that one.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Eh, it's more that I didn't think - and still don't think - that firing Sullivan is the panacea that everyone hopes it would be. As much as I've banged the drum to fire Reirden and fix the power play, how many wins is it actually going to translate to?

Wait are you serious?

Potentially quite a few!

As for the rest man I just don't agree. Of COURSE a lot of it is on the players. They are old and this roster has problems in it's construction. But who has had a big hand in putting this roster together? I know I'm talking to the guy that thinks that the GM stays entirely in his lane and the coach in his because of the titles next to their name but I don't know that you'll find many that agree.

This is Mike Sullivan's team. If you hate how the players are playing... he picked 'em. And if they are just out there dogging it... how is that not on him?

What DOES this guy even do in your personal estimation? Besides scoop all the glory when they ARE winning?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

It's so disingenuous to fall behind the "it won't fix anything" shield. Nobody, not even the most optimistic souls around, think firing Sully is gonna vault this team back into contention. It's about not wanting to watch the last years of Sid be as miserable and boring as possible with a coach who fetishizes playing teams to a draw and ZAR-style play, and holding said coach accountable after six years of not winning a round of playoff hockey and now, staring down two straight playoff misses entirely. This team's definitely not gonna win another round of hockey while Sid's still playing, and I'm not sure they'll get back to the playoffs at all at this point tbh.