Confirmed with Link: Penguins acquire Erik Karlsson for Granlund, 1st rounder in 2024, Rutta, Petry, DeSmith (more in first post)

[Le Magnifique 66]

For me, there's a good chance that either POJ won't particularly outshine Smith and that we'll look to move him rather than pay him... or he'll really deserve a raise, and we'll have to pick between moving him or moving one of the other LDs.

I also think that while poo-poohing the idea of a guy with a full NMC moving after one year is the right response, that after two it becomes a bit more practical. If Dubas approaches Rust next summer and says "hey, we've got offers for you from X, are you interested", then Rust has got to be weighing going to somewhere he likes now vs potentially being moved the next summer to who knows where (as he has zero trade protection from years 4 to 6). He might be amenable. It would be crazy not to back himself now, but times change.

If he doesn't have a good season, he is the guy that needs to be moved in my opinion. And it's not Dubas that extended him, so approach him like you said and simply tell him he is no longer part of the teams plans going forward. Give us a list of possible teams that you would be interested in moving to

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Doesnt matter when the deals were signed at this point though. Next season value in a vacuum means we are paying Karlsson almost twice as much as Letang for similar play. Setting acquisition cost aside Im looking at this as a purely Penguins dollar value on the salary cap. Are the Pens better with Karlsson and Letang or Letang, Orlov, Bertuzzi?

You would not have been able to make what overall was a pretty sweetheart deal considering that Dubas got rid of almost all of Hextall's bad contracts in the trade if EK was not at the Cap Hit he is at.

So, it is an academic exercise to compare him to Letang at this point.

The question is indeed are the Pens better after this trade. Not this trade for EK.

So "Are the Pens better with Karlsson and Letang or Letang, Orlov, Bertuzzi?" should actually be are the Pens better with

Karlsson and Letang, Pitlick, Prospect Hamaliuk and a third round pick in the 2026 draft

or Letang, Orlov, Bertuzzi, a first round pick, and still having the bad contracts that the Pens got rid of on the roster?

And while we are talking about the bad contracts that were shed, how do you sign Orlov, Bertuzzi or anyone without shedding them?

 

[Peat]

So "Are the Pens better with Karlsson and Letang or Letang, Orlov, Bertuzzi?" should actually be are the Pens better with

Karlsson and Letang, Pitlick, Prospect Hamaliuk and a third round pick in the 2026 draft

or Letang, Orlov, Bertuzzi, a first round pick, and still having the bad contracts that the Pens got rid of on the roster?

You can't even afford Orlov or Bertuzzi with those bad contracts hanging around. More accurate to strip those out.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

You can't even afford Orlov or Bertuzzi with those bad contracts hanging around. More accurate to strip those out.

I was editing my post to add just that point as you were posting that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

My main hope for Karlsson on the power play is teams are a bit scared to try and bully him because they respect his ability to deke his man, and that relieves a bit of the pressure we get on the umbrella.

Whole thing is ugly though.

My main hope is that Malkin can finally get some one-time passes in his wheelhouse.

10 years too late, but what are you gonna do.

 

[PensandCaps]

I'm thinking Rakell in the high slot -- at least to start. His snap shot is incredible. I know you might not want a 36 year old sid in front of the net but...

Otherwise you put out Jake.

Karlsson on the powerplay and the Penguins make the playoffs last year.

This year, if the goaltending holds up, we are a tough out.

Gotta have Rak on the first unit with his shot. Not like he was all that productive at 5v5, so he needs those PP goals.

My main hope is that Malkin can finally get some one-time passes in his wheelhouse.

10 years too late, but what are you gonna do.

Malkin also misses alot. So he shares some blame. His shot ain't what it used to be on the PP.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Malkin also misses alot. So he shares some blame. His shot ain't what it used to be on the PP.

As long as the passes start getting there consistently, I can live with a few misses. Those passes regularly 3 feet in front of him or behind him are inexcusable.

 

[PensandCaps]

What's the cap gymnastics.

Sending either Smith or Rakell away?

Not signing Guentzel? Just curious

If Bert is much cheaper than Guentzel...yah. I think he could come close to PPG with sid and provide an element Jake doesn't.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Malkin isn't the weapon he once was. But I'd rather he miss honestly so I'm only irritated with him.

 

[PensandCaps]

As long as the passes start getting there consistently, I can live with a few misses. Those passes regularly 3 feet in front of him or behind him are inexcusable.

I'd prefer quick wristers than huge slap shots from Malkin that go around the glass and out. Hopefully the PP runs through EK and his sneaky wrist shots.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If Bert is much cheaper than Guentzel...yah. I think he could come close to PPG with sid and provide an element Jake doesn't.

Jake already provides a critical element nobody else on the roster or Bertuzzi does. He's the last winger that should be moved.

I'd prefer quick wristers than huge slap shots from Malkin that go around the glass and out. Hopefully the PP runs through EK and his sneaky wrist shots.

I'd prefer a variety of options.

 

[PensandCaps]

Jake already provides a critical element nobody else on the roster or Bertuzzi does. He's the last winger that should be moved.


I'd prefer a variety of options.

I wouldn't move Guentzel. But if he is asking for 9 mil and Bertuzzi is available for 7? I think you get better value there.

I think Bertuzzi gives you 70-80 with Sid and infront on the PP.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If Bert is much cheaper than Guentzel...yah. I think he could come close to PPG with sid and provide an element Jake doesn't.

If we take his last 2 seasons and playoffs.

He is roughly a .8 ppg winger.
1 year younger (if ages are right)

I think he won't be significantly cheaper. A lot hinges on his year with the Leafs. If he scores near or at ppg again in a relative healthy year 65+ games.

I can see 7.5 million+ on a long term deal as his skill set is unique.

I wouldn't be opposed but I don't think we'd be saving much cap.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I wouldn't move Guentzel. But if he is asking for 9 mil and Bertuzzi is available for 7? I think you get better value there.

I think Bertuzzi gives you 70-80 with Sid and infront on the PP.

I think projecting wingers to score 20 points over their career best with Sid is risky business. Much rather find a way to add Bert without moving Guentzel.

 

[Peat]

I think projecting wingers to score 20 points over their career best with Sid is risky business. Much rather find a way to add Bert without moving Guentzel.

I have big questions about how much Guentzel is boosting things and what his future looks like, but looking to upgrade one of the three 5m guys to someone who brings a different big element like Bertuzzi and keeping a guy like Guentzel is absolutely the right angle.

edit: I would add though that projecting Bertuzzi to get 70-80 with Sid and PP1 is projecting him to stay fit imo. He's already paced for 74 on a worse team when put in a lead role.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I have big questions about how much Guentzel is boosting things and what his future looks like, but looking to upgrade one of the three 5m guys to someone who brings a different big element like Bertuzzi and keeping a guy like Guentzel is absolutely the right angle.

edit: I would add though that projecting Bertuzzi to get 70-80 with Sid and PP1 is projecting him to stay fit imo. He's already paced for 74 on a worse team when put in a lead role.

Staying fit is definitely a factor. And one of the more underrated factors in Guentzel's favour.

 

[Zbynek]

This deal is still so insane. Rutta, Granlund, Petry, CDS out Karlsson in. Just nutso man.

 

[WickedWrister]

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

I think if you take last year and add Karlsson just to the PP, we are playoff bound. How many times did the PP fail to get that tying go or go ahead goal that we needed so badly?

Also, 3-on-3 OT should be a lot better for us as well. Sid-Jake-Letang - horray! Then...Petry or Petterson comes out and you wince. Especially when it's Malkin-Rust up front. How many OT games did we piss away? Way, WAY too many for it to be acceptable by any good coach's standards. I think Karlsson alone wins us enough OT games last year to put us in the playoffs.

I'm excited to see a Karlson at the top and Malkin at the top right circle / right point. I think as PK'ers you have to respect the shot of both but at the same time...you'll be leaving Letang and Crosby or Rust/Rakell/Jake open somewhere. I think we were really easy to defend against on the PP so I'm hoping this is the best remedy for that.

Hell, I believe we would’ve made the playoffs last year if Jeff Carter was kept out of three on three play. He bungled a play in a March OT game against the Islanders that certainly hurt us. Overtime hockey is the last place we need to see Jeff Carter. Scully needs to table his fetish for Carter taking face-offs. It’s not worth the disruption to play.

 

[tom_servo]

That game is the pinnacle of the B2B teams. Lost two straight, series suddenly tied, all games close, you're thinking fatigue is setting in. Then we come out and dominate for 60 minutes, led by the captain. Hainsey's play added the explanation point.

 

[SEALBound]

Hell, I believe we would’ve made the playoffs last year if Jeff Carter was kept out of three on three play. He bungled a play in a March OT game against the Islanders that certainly hurt us. Overtime hockey is the last place we need to see Jeff Carter. Scully needs to table his fetish for Carter taking face-offs. It’s not worth the disruption to play.

Agreed.

If I'm Dubas one of things I'm saying is "Hey Mike, I'm not going to tell you how to run or coach your team...but I don't want to see Jeff Carter taking opening OT faceoffs anymore. Period."

I'm also hoping that Dubas and Co will put a little more heat on Sullivan to explain himself when things aren't working. That 7-8 game losing streak we went on after winning 7-8 straight, all while watching Jake-Sid-Rust be putrid after watching Jake-Sid-Rakell be bonkers...that leaves such a large question mark as to Sullivan's willingness to identify and change. And THAT is something that is sorely needed come playoff time. He won B2B cups doing it. Today? I have extreme doubts.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

That game is the pinnacle of the B2B teams. Lost two straight, series suddenly tied, all games close, you're thinking fatigue is setting in. Then we come out and dominate for 60 minutes, led by the captain. Hainsey's play added the explanation point.

A top three playoff performance of Sid‘s stellar career for sure.

 

[PensandCaps]

I think projecting wingers to score 20 points over their career best with Sid is risky business. Much rather find a way to add Bert without moving Guentzel.

I mean, 62 in 68 games on the Wings a season ago. Turned up for Boston once he got traded, I'm pretty confident if he stays healthy he'll be around 70-80.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean, 62 in 68 games on the Wings a season ago. Turned up for Boston once he got traded, I'm pretty confident if he stays healthy he'll be around 70-80.

I like Bert an awful lot - I think we should target him.

But it's problematic to assume he'll stay healthy when he's never played more than 73 games in a season, and it's unwise to assume wingers will click with Sid when he's always been notoriously particular about his linemates and none of the ones he's regularly played with have ever cracked 70...except for Guentzel.

 

[Peat]

I like Bert an awful lot - I think we should target him.

But it's problematic to assume he'll stay healthy when he's never played more than 73 games in a season, and it's unwise to assume wingers will click with Sid when he's always been notoriously particular about his linemates and none of the ones he's regularly played with have ever cracked 70...except for Guentzel.

70 is a far lower target than it's been for most of Sid's career. 30 guys got it in '10. 17 guys got it in '15. 60 guys got it last season. If you'd given all of the PP1 time and vs Empty net time to Rakell, he'd be getting real close to 70 if not over and he wasn't even that great at 5v5.

I don't think Sid's as hard to play with as people say. Particular, yes, but hard to play with, no.

The point about Bertuzzi not being able to stay fit is very true though...