Gurglesons
Registered User
Letang is a better defensive player than EK65 historically.
Confirmed with Link: Penguins acquire Erik Karlsson for Granlund, 1st rounder in 2024, Rutta, Petry, DeSmith (more in first post)
- Thread starter Lust for Life
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Letang is a better defensive player than EK65 historically.
Zirakzigil
Global Moderator
Doesnt matter when the deals were signed at this point though. Next season value in a vacuum means we are paying Karlsson almost twice as much as Letang for similar play. Setting acquisition cost aside Im looking at this as a purely Penguins dollar value on the salary cap. Are the Pens better with Karlsson and Letang or Letang, Orlov, Bertuzzi?
Empoleon8771
Registered User
You wouldn’t have been able to afford Orlov and Bertuzzi because you would have had no way to get out of the Petry, Granlund and Rutta contracts.
Malkinstheman
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2012
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Not to mention we have no idea if Orlov or Bertuzzi even want to come here. Every offseason we hear about players choosing to sign somewhere over PIT.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
So Karlsson for us is 10 million dollar player against the cap.
Bertuzzi + Orlov = 13.25 of the cap.
Now maybe you mean Bertuzzi over Smith?
I personally do not see Bertuzzi signing with us over the Leafs. I think he sees way more advantages signing with that top 6.
Now how do we get Orlovs 7.75 or let's say we sign a long term 6.5 x 6 years.
We would have to move Granlund + Desmith how much does that cap cost to move and who can we move it to?
I just don't think we had a chance at Orlov or Bertuzzi but I would obviously prefer those 2 v 1 Karlsson but that's also 3.25 more.
- Jun 13, 2010
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Orlov is a historically 30pt player, maybe more on a good year. 30pts is a horrific year for EK. And as pointed out, I'm not sure how we fit Orlov and Bertuzzi into the fold as the entire reason for EK's existence here is a massive three-way trade. I have no idea what assets we would have to have moved to get the space needed to sign those two but I imagine EK+assets > Orlov+Bertuzzi+traded away assets to get rid of Petry, Granlund, CDS, and Rutta.
I'm just going +1 all of the above. Karlsson vs Orlov + Bertuzzi is a question that just doesn't make sense on any front.
Also +1 what SealBound said. Comparing Karlsson to Letang doesn't make sense given that Letang took an absolutely sweetheart deal up front, and also that the extremely limited number of guys anything like him means that when you have a chance to add one, you can't afford to get too snooty about whether everything's perfect. Either you want another elite puck moving offensive dman or you don't.
Also +1 what SealBound said. Comparing Karlsson to Letang doesn't make sense given that Letang took an absolutely sweetheart deal up front, and also that the extremely limited number of guys anything like him means that when you have a chance to add one, you can't afford to get too snooty about whether everything's perfect. Either you want another elite puck moving offensive dman or you don't.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
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The Penguins added the best player available this year. I like a lot of the players mentioned but they don't stack up. Even Letang who I love isn't on EK's level as far as skating (overall), puck control, playmaking or vision.
You always take the top end talent over quantity IMO. And I don't see EK/Tanger as redundant at all.
You always take the top end talent over quantity IMO. And I don't see EK/Tanger as redundant at all.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
If I could add to this. If Letangs deal wasn't 5 years. The AAV is 7.625 for 4 years.
I 100% believe Letang signs for 7.1 to 7.5 million a year adding an extra million a year.
Orlov and Bertuzzi aren't moving the needle in the slightest on our powerplay. EK might. We lost so many damned games last year because our powerplay stank.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
I don't think there is a move made during this off-season that I wish I could take back right now. The closest one I can think of is trading for Smith and instead signing Bertuzzi, but there's no guarantee that Bertuzzi would have taken a 1 year, $5 million deal to play for the Penguins. He got more than that to go to Toronto after all.
Every other move has either made sense or hasn't had a better alternative elsewhere. Karlsson is a no brainer, you got out of 1 horrendous contract and 2 poor contracts while only trading a 1st and getting back the modern day Paul Coffey.
Every other move has either made sense or hasn't had a better alternative elsewhere. Karlsson is a no brainer, you got out of 1 horrendous contract and 2 poor contracts while only trading a 1st and getting back the modern day Paul Coffey.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
Same I do wonder if we could have hunted a bigger winger but hard to complain with the Smith deal for a 3rd.
Buddy Bizarre
Registered User
- Jul 9, 2021
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Well yea we all know this. But my proposed setup assumes they'll all be in static positions like they always do and do their best version of rod hockey on the PP. Blows my mind that such good players are either encouraged or not coached to stop standing still.
Not downplaying their entries are a problem too, but it seems like such a chore to even get a good shot off during the advantage.
Richard
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- Feb 8, 2012
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If Karlsson is just able to give Malkin that soft pass on the power play thats easily another 10 powerplay goals this season, alone.
Shultz was able to do it in spurts but we really haven't had anyone since Gonchar.
Shultz was able to do it in spurts but we really haven't had anyone since Gonchar.
- Jun 13, 2010
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I think if you take last year and add Karlsson just to the PP, we are playoff bound. How many times did the PP fail to get that tying go or go ahead goal that we needed so badly?
Also, 3-on-3 OT should be a lot better for us as well. Sid-Jake-Letang - horray! Then...Petry or Petterson comes out and you wince. Especially when it's Malkin-Rust up front. How many OT games did we piss away? Way, WAY too many for it to be acceptable by any good coach's standards. I think Karlsson alone wins us enough OT games last year to put us in the playoffs.
I'm excited to see a Karlson at the top and Malkin at the top right circle / right point. I think as PK'ers you have to respect the shot of both but at the same time...you'll be leaving Letang and Crosby or Rust/Rakell/Jake open somewhere. I think we were really easy to defend against on the PP so I'm hoping this is the best remedy for that.
Richard
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I'm thinking Rakell in the high slot -- at least to start. His snap shot is incredible. I know you might not want a 36 year old sid in front of the net but...
Otherwise you put out Jake.
Karlsson on the powerplay and the Penguins make the playoffs last year.
This year, if the goaltending holds up, we are a tough out.
Otherwise you put out Jake.
Karlsson on the powerplay and the Penguins make the playoffs last year.
This year, if the goaltending holds up, we are a tough out.
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
The good part is we have that option again next summer with Bertuzzi if he doesn't extend in Toronto.
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
What's the cap gymnastics.
Sending either Smith or Rakell away?
Not signing Guentzel? Just curious
Malkinstheman
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Definitely one of the wingers would have to go. The cap is expected to rise by 4m and Carters 3m is off the books but that needs to cover the raises for POJ, Guentzel, and get a backup goalie and fill our the roster. So it wouldn't be possible to get Bertuzzi without replacing another big salary
- Jun 13, 2010
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That's what I would do but I imagine it will be Rust. Then Jake when Jake gets back. I think Sid low right corner roving, Malkin right circle/right point, Karlsson point, Letang roving on the left side, Rust/Jake left side/center roving.
That said, they need to move. They can't cement themselves into one area like they have been. I'm just hoping and praying that the addition of Karlsson is a change agent to the status quo, especially on the PP. Like Sid, Geno, and Letang are in the room and they say "hey, it didn't work last year. Now that Erik is here, let's try something new" and there's an actual commitment to it.
There comes a point when we have who we have. Top 6 wings of Jake, Rakell, Rust, and Smith isn't a bad thing. Smith has one year left so if you need to use his space on an "upgrade", then between him, the cap going up, and Carter, there's your money. I imagine POJ signs for something like $2mil. BUG should be $1mil or less and it's possible by then we can have someone from the system in place. Jake's deal is what the x-factor there is.
ETA: Scratch that, Smith has 2 years left.
Trade Rust for Marchessault
Le Magnifique 66
Let's Go Pens
Depending on how he does, I know he has a NTC but Rust is the one I would move. Cap is going up 4 million and Carter at 3.1 is coming off the books. Should be interesting but both can be in the lienup and make it work I think
KrisLetAngry
MrJukeBoy
I don't think Rust is moving. Why I didn't say his name he has full protection.
True cap goes up 4 million and Carter 3.1 gone.
People complain about bottom 6 lacking so Carter may eat into that. POJ needs a raise.
Guentzel will probably get 8 to 8.5
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
Sullsma will want EK to prove himself as reliable on the PK first.
For me, there's a good chance that either POJ won't particularly outshine Smith and that we'll look to move him rather than pay him... or he'll really deserve a raise, and we'll have to pick between moving him or moving one of the other LDs.
I also think that while poo-poohing the idea of a guy with a full NMC moving after one year is the right response, that after two it becomes a bit more practical. If Dubas approaches Rust next summer and says "hey, we've got offers for you from X, are you interested", then Rust has got to be weighing going to somewhere he likes now vs potentially being moved the next summer to who knows where (as he has zero trade protection from years 4 to 6). He might be amenable. It would be crazy not to back himself now, but times change.
