Post-Game Talk: Penguin III

[will1066]

Am I crazy for thinking Strome has been a lot better than Zibanejad so far?

No. Zibajenad has disappeared

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I hear you. Seriously, we're running into a Hank situation again, IMO. Our goalies, no matter who plays, has to carry this team because they can seldom carry themselves. You can't expect our goalies to stand on their head night after night after night after night to bail out absolutely awful defense. I've been saying it all season, the guys in front of the goalies need to be held responsible, and the fact that this series is 2-1 against a goalie that is 1-1 for the entire season is laughable. It has less to do with playoff "experience" and more about ineptitude.

Really concerned that they may have just rebuilt the exact same type of team they had in the Hank years that was never enough. Not panicking yet by any means, Fox is better than any other player developed on those teams, but getting concerned that I am gonna watch the same exact movie for another 5-10 years.

 

[Fitzy]

Nah you’ve convinced me on this one. I’ll concede the point.

Fox is literally not more instrumental at creating chances at even strength. This is where you're going to think I just made up "scoring chances" because it doesn't match what you think, but Fox creates way more chances on the powerplay adjusted, of course, for the fact that it's a powerplay.

View attachment 542827

If you bring up the same charts for the forwards, none of them are close. The caliber of forward has been around for a long time. We've had Panarin since 19-20, Zibanejad since 16-17, and Kreider since 59-60. The powerplay was never top 5 until Fox was introduced.

He's not the guy playing with the guys, he's the guy the guys are playing with.

 

[LORDE]

Really concerned that they may have just rebuilt the exact same type of team they had in the Hank years that was never enough. Not panicking yet by any means, Fox is better than any other player developed on those teams, but getting concerned that I am gonna watch the same exact movie for another 5-10 years.

My hope is that it's starkly different this time because the team is so much younger overall.

In the Hank years players were declining (Staal, G, Nash especially) so maybe now, while Shesty is in his prime Zbad & Bread will be fine and the kids come into their own at the right time.

I dunno but I feel your concern.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

WOW! Rangers having a tuff time with a battle tested SC winning Pitt core.
SHOCKING! Just shocking.

Pretty sure Louis Domingue wasn't in net for those cups.

This pens team is objectively ass and we've under performed. It's that simple.

With that being said, this series has been a battle of the injuries. Both teams are playing less than their best and it's obvious. Motte, Goodrow and Lindgren are huge losses for the Rangers most specifically Lindgren. Copp is noticeably not healthy either, he's absolutely floating out there ( yeah, I know, he's scoring. He's hurt).

And then you have PIT missing Rakell and their top 2 goalies. So this is the series; whose depth is gonna outplay the others. So far our D and goaltending have been outplayed

 

[TominNC]

Shesterkin was out played 1 period. He kept them in a game facing about 80 shots, he won game 2. Let's not act like he's been trash all series.

 

[duhmetreE]

There were 2-3 fluke goals out of the 4. The 4th being a complete breakdown of the 3rd pair.

Shesty will be fine and I expect him locked in and shutting them down for game 4.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Really concerned that they may have just rebuilt the exact same type of team they had in the Hank years that was never enough. Not panicking yet by any means, Fox is better than any other player developed on those teams, but getting concerned that I am gonna watch the same exact movie for another 5-10 years.

The main difference is the high end talent is far better now. Fox, Mika and Panarin are each better than any player we had at any point in the Hank era aside from year 1 Jagr.

The high end talent is worlds better than at any point in Hanks career. And those players had the game in their hands with 3 straight PPs in the third period of a tied playoff game. They choked. We need them to be better. Also need Igor to be at his best which I don’t think he has been yet in the playoffs, not even close imo.

Our team obviously isn’t perfect but there is a legit shot for them to go on a run. That’s what makes their play so frustrating. They’re beating themselves.

 

[Miamipuck]

Fox is back to Norris level. He's been the best player overall in my opinion.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Shesterkin was out played 1 period. He kept them in a game facing about 80 shots, he won game 2. Let's not act like he's been trash all series.

Shesterkin & Panarin are the most disrespected and underrated players on our team AINEC.

 

[duhmetreE]

If all things stay the same over the first 3, I like our chances to win the series.

Chances improve dramatically if Mika steps up his game

 

[Machinehead]

What does this have to do with getting a shot through?

Relax. I know ADA is a trigger word for you. If you can't have a conversation with the point being talked about, dont respond.

"ADA can walk the line and create a shooting angle" doesn't mean he's better than Fox or that I'd prefer him. You posting charts doesn't refute anything being talked about.

The thing is, saying "ADA walks the line to get shots through better" (he doesn't which the charts reflect but let's take one step at a time), is like saying "Mantha is 6'5"' when comparing him to McDavid. It doesn't matter because the players aren't on the same level. At even strength, DeAngelo might be a top 10-15 D, find me ever saying otherwise. On the powerplay, they're not in the same galaxy. I can't have the conversation because there isn't one. It's like having a conversation on whether 5 is more than 4.

Why is it always DeAngelo? At least others mentioned Josi. You dug up a corpse that doesn't sniff Fox's jock and isn't worth bringing up. I wonder why.

 

[Machinehead]

Nah you’ve convinced me on this one. I’ll concede the point.

Forgive me for being snippy then.

It's just frustrating when you post evidence to try and have a conversation, and you've watched like 2,000 hockey games, and then the conversation just defaults to "you're not watching the games."

I'm preemptively defensive about that because it just torpedoes civil discourse. I only wish I didn't watch as much hockey as I do.

As far as the eye-test goes, I do see where Fox is less physically impressive than some of his peers. That said, I think the results get to the point where it actually just doesn't matter what you saw; the results are the results and we're just human, and I can't say that without being dismissive.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm going to defend Zibanejad a bit.

I tend to be more dismissive of competition during the season because it's a different opponent every night with different coaches and it gets random.

In the playoffs, you're locked into a lot more hard matchups. What are the realistic expectations for Zibanejad up against Sidney Crosby almost every time he sees the ice?

It's a deeper issue that just Zibanejad. We've talked about how poor Trouba has been and we've been matching him up against Crosby also. It's not working. In a small sample, Fox is taking Crosby behind the woodshed. That should be the matchup if we can help it.

I think we're matching Miller and Trouba because there's still this stigma of "hit Cindy and he'll cry." I always hate being the one who has to share bad news but he's about to be 35 and he's one of the toughest star players of all-time.

 

[duhmetreE]

The thing is, saying "ADA walks the line to get shots through better" (he doesn't which the charts reflect but let's take one step at a time), is like saying "Mantha is 6'5"' when comparing him to McDavid. It doesn't matter because the players aren't on the same level. At even strength, DeAngelo might be a top 10-15 D, find me ever saying otherwise. On the powerplay, they're not in the same galaxy. I can't have the conversation because there isn't one. It's like having a conversation on whether 5 is more than 4.

Why is it always DeAngelo? At least others mentioned Josi. You dug up a corpse that doesn't sniff Fox's jock and isn't worth bringing up. I wonder why.

how does a chart reflect that? Getting a shot through would be a low% shot. Difference being Kreider in front. ADA was good at changing angles to get a shot through by using his skating. I bring him up because he was the previous PPQB. Fox has his shimmy and deception but he simply needs to get the puck through more. The simple yet effective play instead of the 4D chess perfect setup

Fox has shown he can do it. But he hasn't been consistent enough as of late. It should be 'go-to' play when we need a goal. Prime example would be last night with 3 straight powerplays

 

[Machinehead]

how does a chart reflect that? Getting a shot through would be a low% shot. Difference being Kreider in front.

Fox has shown he can do it. But he hasn't as of late. It should be 'go-to' play when we need a goal. Prime example would be last night with 3 straight powerplays

Because Fox takes high% shots at a rate three standard deviations above DeAngelo. I don't care how, to be honest.

 

[duhmetreE]

Because Fox takes high% shots at a rate three standard deviations above DeAngelo. I don't care how, to be honest.

Yeah you're bringing up something completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about.

Simply getting the puck through for Kreider to deflect or clean up. It's low% until it's not. If Kreider cleans it up or deflects it, it's a high% chance for Kreider. That's the entire point of that shot or "pass" if you want to call it that

 

[17futurecap]

I'm going to defend Zibanejad a bit.

I tend to be more dismissive of competition during the season because it's a different opponent every night with different coaches and it gets random.

In the playoffs, you're locked into a lot more hard matchups. What are the realistic expectations for Zibanejad up against Sidney Crosby almost every time he sees the ice?

It's a deeper issue that just Zibanejad. We've talked about how poor Trouba has been and we've been matching him up against Crosby also. It's not working. In a small sample, Fox is taking Crosby behind the woodshed. That should be the matchup if we can help it.

I think we're matching Miller and Trouba because there's still this stigma of "hit Cindy and he'll cry." I always hate being the one who has to share bad news but he's about to be 35 and he's one of the toughest star players of all-time.

Should have realized the hitting Crosby wasn’t going to work when Braun was draped all over him in game two and he just said get off me to score.

 

[duhmetreE]

Should have realized the hitting Crosby wasn’t going to work when Braun was draped all over him in game two and he just said get off me to score.

Crosby's base/balance is about as elite as it gets and then you add the edge work.

If we hit him late like Zucker hit Fox, would it be a penalty? curious.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah you're bringing up something completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about.

Simply getting the puck through for Kreider to deflect or clean up. It's low% until it's not.

So it's low% until it's high%?

 

[duhmetreE]

So it's low% until it's high%?

View attachment 542912

Yes. The shot by Fox is considered low% for FOX. The point of the shot is a deflection or cleanup for Kreider which would be considered a high% shot for KREIDER.

I know, mind blowing stuff. You'll learn hockey eventually if you stick with it.

 

[17futurecap]

Crosby's base/balance is about as elite as it gets and then you add the edge work.

If we hit him late like Zucker hit Fox, would it be a penalty? curious.

Possibly, I’m not sure tbh. I’m just kind of over blaming the refs, and it’s only been three games. I feel like if we watched every series as close as we do the Rangers, you would see refs making bad calls.

What did Carolina have today 10 penalties?

My only real gripe is the game one Kakko goal, and the refs called that correctly on the ice, and then Toronto changed the call if I’m not mistaken?

Players need a good hard look in the mirror today, I think they will respond and it will be 2-2 headed back to MSG.

 

[Machinehead]

Yes. The shot by Fox is considered low% for FOX. The point of the shot is a deflection or cleanup for Kreider which would be considered a high% shot for KREIDER.

I know, mind blowing stuff. You'll learn hockey eventually if you stick with it.

That is absolutely not how anything works LMAO

 

[duhmetreE]

That is absolutely not how anything works LMAO

LMAO

 

[Machinehead]

This is just bad faith but let me try to explain this to anybody who legitimately might not know: if Fox shoots and it's tipped by Kreider, that counts as ONE shot attempt. It is ONE corsi. It is ONE scoring chance. It's either low% or high% because it's ONE event. What Fox did counts as a pass.

That's why Fox gets an assist if it goes in and not a goal. Sorry if I just blew your mind.