Post-Game Talk: Penguin III

[duhmetreE]

This is just bad faith but let me try to explain this to anybody who legitimately might not know: if Fox shoots and it's tipped by Kreider, that counts as ONE shot attempt. It is ONE corsi. It is ONE scoring chance. It's either low% or high% because it's ONE event. What Fox did counts as a pass.

That's why Fox gets an assist if it goes in and not a goal. Sorry if I just blew your mind.

I do not know what you're not getting.

If the shot gets through untouched, it's a low % shot. Hence, it's a low% shot until it's not. The point of the low% shot is not to score on that exact shot. Kreider turns it into a high% chance from his office with either a deflection or cleanup.

 

[duhmetreE]

I just don't get how much worse would Jones be compared to Nemeth? Would he be on ice for 3 goals against like Nemeth last game? There's no rationale or logic behind it.

What Turk fears Jones MIGHT be defenseively, Nemeth is. Difference is Jones can create offense to compensate

 

[Machinehead]

I do not know what you're not getting.

If the shot gets through untouched, it's a low % shot. Hence, it's a low% shot until it's not. The point of the low% shot is not to score on that exact shot. Kreider turns it into a high% chance from his office with either a deflection or cleanup.

Fox is on the ice for more high% PP shots than any defenseman in the league. I do not know what you're not getting.

He's effectively passing. Do you think Fox is trying to hit the goalie in the chest with a muffin and Kreider is jumping in to save him?

 

[duhmetreE]

Fox is on the ice for more high% PP shots than any defenseman in the league. I do not know what you're not getting.

Man you're exhausting. You're all over the place and hi-jack conversations with information missing the initial point. We're talking about a specific aspect about last game or at least I am. I'm not arguing ADA is better than Fox, it's not close. I'm not arguing Fox doesn't get enough high% PP shots.

Getting back to the point, it'd be nice for Fox to attempt to get more shots through... so Kreider could do his thing or even better, he scores a PPG like Game 1.( not a high% shot btw) A simplified approach could have won us the game last night at any point with those 3 consecutive Power Plays....

 

[TominNC]

Shesterkin & Panarin are the most disrespected and underrated players on our team AINEC.

McKegg and Geo? Only they deserve it

 

[Machinehead]

Man you're exhausting. You're all over the place and hi-jack conversations with information missing the initial point. We're talking about a specific aspect about last game or at least I am. I'm not arguing ADA is better than Fox, it's not close. I'm not arguing Fox doesn't get enough high% PP shots.

Getting back to the point, it'd be nice for Fox to attempt to get shots through... so Kreider could do his thing or even better, he scores a PPG like Game 1.( not a high% shot btw) A simplified approach could have won us the game last night at any point with those 3 consecutive Power Plays....

I'm exhausting???

I'M EXHAUSTING?????

Bro, my brain just hung itself after having this conversation and I am now a stump.

He sets up the most high% PP shots in the NHL. f*** him for passing I guess.

 

[Machinehead]

Fox has a point in every game and two of them are in the powerplay

 

[bl02]

No. Zibajenad has disappeared

Watching Bergeron today makes me think what if Zibby can even be 50 percent as good in the playoffs. Heck he’s even what 7-8 years younger? This is it man. Forget about next year we need him to be a 1C tomorrow and wed and beyond

 

[Machinehead]

 

[duhmetreE]

View attachment 542944

Machinehead : Fox as EdJovo : Kravtsov/ADA

the conversation is over before it starts

 

[Machinehead]

"Fox needs to get high quality shots"

"He does"

Machinehead : Fox as EdJovo : Kravtsov/ADA

the conversation is over before it starts

I mean, yeah.

I treat the best player the team has had since Leetch like he treats randos that got thrown off the team.

That seems accurate. Right you are.

 

[JimmyG89]

Chris Kreider just set the team record for PP goals in a season, quite a bit of those came off passes from Fox.

Adam Fox at the top of the umbrella, putting the puck to the net when Kreider is directly in front of or off to the side while aiming at him is a high percentage chance.

If DeAngelo was better at walking the line and shooting/passing from that spot than Fox, Kreider would have had at least 35 before this season. Also his advanced metrics would be significantly better than what they are. The success of the 2019-20 power play was Panarin. This season it is Fox.

DeAngelo might be a better skater and he might make it look prettier when doing it, but it is without a doubt not as effective as what Fox does out there with what amounts to the same players.

 

[Machinehead]

Chris Kreider just set the team record for PP goals in a season, quite a bit of those came off passes from Fox.

Adam Fox at the top of the umbrella, putting the puck to the net when Kreider is directly in front of or off to the side while aiming at him is a high percentage chance.

If DeAngelo was better at walking the line and shooting/passing from that spot than Fox, Kreider would have had at least 35 before this season. Also his advanced metrics would be significantly better than what they are. The success of the 2019-20 power play was Panarin. This season it is Fox.

DeAngelo might be a better skater and he might make it look prettier when doing it, but it is without a doubt not as effective as what Fox does out there with what amounts to the same players.

You mean you don't reminisce about all the times Kreider scored 52 goals before Leetch was reincarnated?

Kreider was always great at what he does but he became one of the most productive forwards in team history the first full season he had Fox.

 

[Synergy27]

So what teams do you think have the best chances of winning the Stanley Cup ?

Colorado and Carolina. Toronto needs consideration as well and their goalie tandem is making about $5M total.

 

[ohbaby]

I think lost in all these discussions on individual performances, is that we played perhaps our best hockey of the year, in the second period. We dominated a Stanley Cup Champion team in the playoffs. And had we not been behind the 8 ball early in the game, that might have been enough to get us a game 3 win. This was a promising effort, making a game of it after being blown out early. I look at this loss as a positive. The Pens can't match our intensity, regardless who they will have in net. We will win this series. Games 2 and 3 point this out to me.

 

[Do you want ants]

I just don't get how much worse would Jones be compared to Nemeth? Would he be on ice for 3 goals against like Nemeth last game? There's no rationale or logic behind it.

What Turk fears Jones MIGHT be defenseively, Nemeth is. Difference is Jones can create offense to compensate

The other plus is if Jones is actually getting caved. He’ll get glued to the bench unlike Nemeth.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I'm going to defend Zibanejad a bit.

I tend to be more dismissive of competition during the season because it's a different opponent every night with different coaches and it gets random.

In the playoffs, you're locked into a lot more hard matchups. What are the realistic expectations for Zibanejad up against Sidney Crosby almost every time he sees the ice?

It's a deeper issue that just Zibanejad. We've talked about how poor Trouba has been and we've been matching him up against Crosby also. It's not working. In a small sample, Fox is taking Crosby behind the woodshed. That should be the matchup if we can help it.

I think we're matching Miller and Trouba because there's still this stigma of "hit Cindy and he'll cry." I always hate being the one who has to share bad news but he's about to be 35 and he's one of the toughest star players of all-time.

Yeah, matching up with Sid at 5v5 isn’t doing him any favors but this is why he needs to capitalize on his PP chances. He’s had at least one clear goal on the PP robbed from him in each game it feels like. Especially last night on our second PP in the third he had a perfect chances and Domingue stopped him.

 

[Kravtsov420]

I bet Gallant somehow blames Schneider for Nemeth's mistakes

 

[Machinehead]

I think lost in all these discussions on individual performances, is that we played perhaps our best hockey of the year, in the second period. We dominated a Stanley Cup Champion team in the playoffs. And had we not been behind the 8 ball early in the game, that might have been enough to get us a game 3 win. This was a promising effort, making a game of it after being blown out early. I look at this loss as a positive.

I see this as a stepping stone to future runs and unpopular take, I'd much rather watch this team than the 12-15 teams.

They've already proven they can score in the playoffs and play dynamic, worthwhile games.

With the old core in the playoffs, whoever scored first won 2-1 like clockwork.

We've played three games and played three different games. Amazing.

We actually have things to talk about now instead of either "nice save by Hank at the end" or "can't believe Carlson scored again" depending on the result.

We've got a lot of talented players locked up and Kakko/Lafreniere will be good players. This is just our warmup.

 

[bl02]

I see this as a stepping stone to future runs and unpopular take, I'd much rather watch this team than the 12-15 teams.

They've already proven they can score in the playoffs and play dynamic, worthwhile games.

With the old core in the playoffs, whoever scored first won 2-1 like clockwork.

We've played three games and played three different games. Amazing.

We actually have things to talk about now instead of either "nice save by Hank at the end" or "can't believe Carlson scored again" depending on the result.

We've got a lot of talented players locked up and Kakko/Lafreniere will be good players. This is just our warmup.

If this was told to me before the playoffs started say a month or two ago I would say I'm ok with it but bottom line right now is that we are in a good position to make a little noise these playoffs. Things are fluid tho and we have a terrific chance to make this a very exciting month plus. Right here and now I would be disappointed losing this first round playing against a third string goalie.
Plus you never know next year Zibby and Igor could both be injured right before the playoffs start or Fox and Igor. Also very Possible we don't have Copp and Strome next year.

 

[The S5]

I think Fox is better at even strength than on the power play.

Maybe one day Jones surpasses him but he’s good, not great as a PPQB.

It’s Fox’s two way play at even strength that makes him a Norris candidate level defenseman. Kreider, Zibby, Panarin are in my eyes the big parts of what make our pp dangerous.

Not really sure what you are talking about. Fox is an outstanding PPQB. Everything runs through him. The guy wins so many puck battles along the wall, keeping pucks in the zone. The only thing you can say about him negatively is that he doesn't have a big shot, but he doesn't need to have one.

 

[Machinehead]

If this was told to me before the playoffs started say a month or two ago I would say I'm ok with it but bottom line right now is that we are in a good position to make a little noise these playoffs. Things are fluid tho and we have a terrific chance to make this a very exciting month plus. Right here and now I would be disappointed losing this first round playing against a third string goalie.
Plus you never know next year Zibby and Igor could both be injured right before the playoffs start or Fox and Igor. Also very Possible we don't have Copp and Strome next year.

I guess agree to disagree on that one. I don't see this as a prime chance for us at all.

We're in a matchup with the most experienced team in the playoffs, Igor is cold, we absolutely do have injuries and guys playing with injuries, we could face Carolina next round which is a ghastly matchup, we haven't gotten one break the entire series, and we were a flawed team all year that had to plug holes at the deadline, holes that should be filled with the development of our own pieces going forward.

The only thing going for us is the goaltending situation and I've said it a million times, I just don't get excited about it. Most teams in the NHL have three goalies that can win games. It's a position where one guy per team plays meaningful minutes and the talent pool violently overshoots demand.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

If this was told to me before the playoffs started say a month or two ago I would say I'm ok with it but bottom line right now is that we are in a good position to make a little noise these playoffs. Things are fluid tho and we have a terrific chance to make this a very exciting month plus. Right here and now I would be disappointed losing this first round playing against a third string goalie.
Plus you never know next year Zibby and Igor could both be injured right before the playoffs start or Fox and Igor. Also very Possible we don't have Copp and Strome next year.

There is IMO almost no way Copp and Strome will be here next season unless Drury really works some unforeseen cap magic. Overwhelmingly likely that the NYR will be subtracting from this group next season.

And the vet core they were in a rush to lock up forever despite no PO track record is leaving a bit to be desired so far. But plenty of hockey left here in this series.

 

[bl02]

I guess agree to disagree on that one. I don't see this as a prime chance for us at all.

We're in a matchup with the most experienced team in the playoffs, Igor is cold, we absolutely do have injuries and guys playing with injuries, we could face Carolina next round which is a ghastly matchup, we haven't gotten one break the entire series, and we were a flawed team all year that had to plug holes at the deadline, holes that should be filled with the development of our own pieces going forward.

The only thing going for us is the goaltending situation and I've said it a million times, I just don't get excited about it. Most teams in the NHL have three goalies that can win games. It's a position where one guy per team plays meaningful minutes and the talent pool violently overshoots demand.

Not sure if I agree with that. Our top 6 in intact. heck our top 9 is intact. Our defense is pretty healthy. Our goalie is healthy. Yes missing Goodrow hurts a bit and Motte as well but every team in the league has injuries right now. boston is missing by far their two best dmen and are 2-2 vs the canes.

We are flawed but watching every single game in the east playoffs so far so is pretty much every team.
I understand that we should be able to grow and get better but there are certainly no guarantees in hockey especially when it comes to health and injuries this time of the year.

Hopefully we get a few breaks the rest of the series and guys like Mika and Kreids match the pens first line contributions.

 

[Machinehead]

Not sure if I agree with that. Our top 6 in intact. heck our top 9 is intact. Our defense is pretty healthy. Our goalie is healthy. Yes missing Goodrow hurts a bit and Motte as well but every team in the league has injuries right now. boston is missing by far their two best dmen and are 2-2 vs the canes.

We are flawed but watching every single game in the east playoffs so far so is pretty much every team.
I understand that we should be able to grow and get better but there are certainly no guarantees in hockey especially when it comes to health and injuries this time of the year.

Hopefully we get a few breaks the rest of the series and guys like Mika and Kreids match the pens first line contributions.

Copp is playing on half the ice because he can't skate into the other half. That's a significant loss.

This is the NHL. We don't know how healthy this team is until they're eliminated and they reveal the absolute HBO miniseries of injuries they've been hiding.

You said it yourself there are no guarantees. I'm sorry, this is not a lineup that's entitled to win anything. I've seen better teams fall harder.

They're not a contender yet and that's fine.