Player Discussion Pavel Buchnevich: Part VI

[SnowblindNYR]

Found the magnet collector

I mean, anyone who has refrigerator magnets is a magnet collector.

 

[Irishguy42]

David Quinn.

"bUt tHe pLaYeR Is pErFoRmInG WeLl bEcAuSe oF ThEiR AlReAdY ExIsTiNg tAlEnT, nOt bEcAuSe oF ThE CoAcH"

 

[EdJovanovski]

I just don't see it. I can count on one hand the number of goals he's scored where he beat the goalie strictly with his shot.

He’s done it far more than 5 times lol, I think it’s moreso his lack of confidence in shooting than his actual skill that’s lacking. His slapshot is pretty damn hard and accurate, he’s scored several goals with it in both the NHL & KHL. A few games back I remember a sequence where he took like 3 slapshots from the point on one PP and they were cannons. He shoots better from the point than any of our dmen.

Buch is a pretty shy guy and I think he’s struggled a lot with confidence, hence why he’s been so streaky throughout his NHL career so far. This Buch we’ve seen the past couple months seems like a complete new player

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He’s done it far more than 5 times lol, I think it’s moreso his lack of confidence in shooting than his actual skill that’s lacking. His slapshot is pretty damn hard and accurate, he’s scored several goals with it in both the NHL & KHL. A few games back I remember a sequence where he took like 3 slapshots from the point on one PP and they were cannons. He shoots better from the point than any of our dmen.

Buch is a pretty shy guy and I think he’s struggled a lot with confidence, hence why he’s been so streaky throughout his NHL career so far. This Buch we’ve seen the past couple months seems like a complete new player

Hard shot =/= good shot.

Reminds me of the NFL where "good arm" is synonymous with a strong arm. Like there's nothing else.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Hard shot =/= good shot.

Reminds me of the NFL where "good arm" is synonymous with a strong arm. Like there's nothing else.

Well velocity is a pretty significant attribute of a shot, and I don’t think he’s any slouch when it comes to accuracy or quick release either. The goal he scored last night he switched to his forehand and released it insanely quick

 

[duhmetreE]

He's going to be over 25 when we're 'contending'. We should trade him..


If Gorton feels he could continue to improve, produce and exhibit this compete level for 5+ years, a long term deal might have great value.

He'd look good with Panarin... just sayin'

 

[Barnaby]

I hope they continue to ride him hard next year. I lost faith for awhile, but I'm coming back around on him. He's a completely different player when he's engaged and has confidence. I'd like to see him on Zibanejads flank most of next season to see if he can take his game to the next level consistently.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

He's going to be over 25 when we're 'contending'. We should trade him..


If Gorton feels he could continue to improve, produce and exhibit this compete level for 5+ years, a long term deal might have great value.

He'd look good with Panarin... just sayin'

It's pretty annoying when you mock people for no reason. It's also quite arrogant.

Buchnevich very clearly fits the timeline. Panarin does not. I don't see anyone advocating for dumping guys 25 or younger. I see a good amount of people arguing that we shouldn't be signing guys in there late 20's (Kreider, Panarin, EK) to 6-7 year deals. If you can't see the difference between the two, I don't know what to tell you.

I'd be fine giving Buch a 5 or 6 year deal at this point. Lock him up at a decent cap hit and then let him get another big contract in his late 20's if he proves to be the real deal.

 

[nyr2k2]

It's pretty annoying when you mock people for no reason. It's also quite arrogant.

Buchnevich very clearly fits the timeline. Panarin does not. I don't see anyone advocating for dumping guys 25 or younger. I see a good amount of people arguing that we shouldn't be signing guys in there late 20's (Kreider, Panarin, EK) to 6-7 year deals. If you can't see the difference between the two, I don't know what to tell you.

I'd be fine giving Buch a 5 or 6 year deal at this point. Lock him up at a decent cap hit and then let him get another big contract in his late 20's if he proves to be the real deal.

In that poster's defense, there has been a small-ish contingent of people that in the Roster Building and similar threads will seriously advocate trading Kreider, Vesey, Namestnikov, Strome, Shattenkirk, Smith, and getting rid of Staal. Basically getting rid of those guys so they can be replaced by even younger guys on ELCs, many of whom haven't even yet played in the NHL. So they don't explicitly say, "Everyone over 25 must go," but that's the practical implication.

That's been an "always" thing on HF. When HF itself actually existed it was a prospect site, so we necessarily drew people that just wanted to hoard prospects and picks. And of course, during a rebuilding, it becomes even more pronounced. Not necessarily a Panarin thing, or anything like that.

I haven't followed the whole conversation so I may be lacking context. But there are people who, if it was up to them, would assemble a team almost exclusively of U25 guys.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

In that poster's defense, there has been a small-ish contingent of people that in the Roster Building and similar threads will seriously advocate trading Kreider, Vesey, Namestnikov, Strome, Shattenkirk, Smith, and getting rid of Staal. Basically getting rid of those guys so they can be replaced by even younger guys on ELCs, many of whom haven't even yet played in the NHL. So they don't explicitly say, "Everyone over 25 must go," but that's the practical implication.

I am in that contingent. I guess my counter-argument would be, what do those guys offer to a future contending NYR team? You can trade all of those guys, get assets in return and sign guys to replace them for free, who will provide a similar level of play, veteran leadership and fill any holes that cannot by prospects. Seems like this is the basic blueprint for a rebuild.

The only one who is relatively irreplaceable is Kreider. That being said, his situation is unique insofar as he is a rather rare type of player, homegrown, yet who is entering his late 20's and will command a high $/ long term contract after next season.

I don't see any argument for Shatty/Smith/Staal. If we can rid ourselves of them and get assets in return, we should.

Vesey, Names, Strome are fine, but hardly hold much value. I don't mind keeping all 3, but I also wouldn't overpay, nor close the door on offers to them.

Finally, I've gone back and forth with the poster your defending and I find the comment rather unnecessary. I don't see it as extreme to want to rid the team of older players (most of which are not performing at a great level anyhow). I have not seen one single person advocate for removing Buchnevich because he's 'too old.' That's absurd and makes any argument against those who don't want to throw big dollars and years at older players seem weak.

If the 5 year difference between Panarin/Kreider and Buchnevich can't be understood, then what's the point of even having the discussion.

 

[True Blue]

I hope they continue to ride him hard next year. I lost faith for awhile, but I'm coming back around on him. He's a completely different player when he's engaged and has confidence. I'd like to see him on Zibanejads flank most of next season to see if he can take his game to the next level consistently.

As well. Quinn seems to be able to get something more from his players. Look at him, Namestsnikov, Strome. Buch has had the ability, but has not been willing to do what it takes to compete.

 

[True Blue]

He's not playing with a mean streak really. He's just not getting pushed around. I don't expect Pavel to be knocking players over all the time--he should hit when the hits are there and he should take hits to make plays and go into traffic areas and go to the net---most goals are scored from 15-20 feet away and in. Got to get to those areas if you're going to score goals and he has been doing all that.

I agree with this. I think that's what Quinn means when he refers that playing physical is not necessarily dishing out bone jarring hits.

 

[Leetch3]

really interested to see if he can carry this play the rest of the season and into next season...consistency has been his issue but motivated buch can be a huge part of the future of this team

 

[duhmetreE]

I am in that contingent. I guess my counter-argument would be, what do those guys offer to a future contending NYR team? You can trade all of those guys, get assets in return and sign guys to replace them for free, who will provide a similar level of play, veteran leadership and fill any holes that cannot by prospects. Seems like this is the basic blueprint for a rebuild.

The only one who is relatively irreplaceable is Kreider. That being said, his situation is unique insofar as he is a rather rare type of player, homegrown, yet who is entering his late 20's and will command a high $/ long term contract after next season.

I don't see any argument for Shatty/Smith/Staal. If we can rid ourselves of them and get assets in return, we should.

Vesey, Names, Strome are fine, but hardly hold much value. I don't mind keeping all 3, but I also wouldn't overpay, nor close the door on offers to them.

Finally, I've gone back and forth with the poster your defending and I find the comment rather unnecessary. I don't see it as extreme to want to rid the team of older players (most of which are not performing at a great level anyhow). I have not seen one single person advocate for removing Buchnevich because he's 'too old.' That's absurd and makes any argument against those who don't want to throw big dollars and years at older players seem weak.

If the 5 year difference between Panarin/Kreider and Buchnevich can't be understood, then what's the point of even having the discussion.

The initial post had nothing to do with Panarin. BUT it sounds like you should be on the Panarin bandwagon.

It was a joke and you apparently have no sense of humor. Thinking every player magically becomes a 'trash can' when they turn 30, is what's absurd.

P.S. it's a 4 year difference

 

[Levitate]

It was a joke and you apparently have no sense of humor. Thinking every player magically becomes a 'trash can' when they turn 30, is what's absurd.

Some players continue to produce well after 30, some players even have some great years, but the vast majority of them rapidly decline so it's always a very big consideration when it comes to signing a guy long term over 30 years old.

I said it in another thread somewhere but I think the idea that "30 is a players prime!" from back in the 90's etc when it was the UFA age still messes with peoples perceptions a bit when we can absolutely see that 30 is past their prime and it's only downhill from there

e: and the problem with UFA's even at 27 is you're often paying for their past performances when they were in their prime years but what you're going to get is their past prime years

 

[duhmetreE]

Some players continue to produce well after 30, some players even have some great years, but the vast majority of them rapidly decline so it's always a very big consideration when it comes to signing a guy long term over 30 years old.

I said it in another thread somewhere but I think the idea that "30 is a players prime!" from back in the 90's etc when it was the UFA age still messes with peoples perceptions a bit when we can absolutely see that 30 is past their prime and it's only downhill from there

e: and the problem with UFA's even at 27 is you're often paying for their past performances when they were in their prime years but what you're going to get is their past prime years

I disagree, somewhat. I still believe 30s is prime, depending on the player. If they look like Shattenkirk or Staal, I'd be concerned. A beer leaguer and a stiff. Injuries could be an issue as well. It is true that some decline after 30. To lump everyone into that category is illogical IMO.

There's a lot of value in getting young players and having them produce on their ELC/Controlled years. Back to Buch, if you can get him on a nice AAV for 5ish years, he can be a valuable asset moving forward.. assuming he can maintain effort and top6 production

 

[CaptTennille]

I can't help but smile now when a puck gets soft-dumped in the corner and I see a blue sweater bearing down on the opposing D-man and it's Pavel with his signature scowl. I'm not sure if Quinn is the X's and O's coach to get NYR over the hump, but we can add Buch to the list of players that have seemed to find another gear under his coaching.

The funny this is, I think this period of "the coach wan't me to be more engaged" is a bit of an over-correction, and the next level Buch reaches is about knowing when to get in the middle of things and to knowing when to fade into the wallpaper before re-emerging to buy himself time and space. Kravtsov already possesses this ability, and stylistically I think he and Buch could be a good fit to together(and no this is not assuming that sharing a nationality automatically makes them the Sedin brothers).

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Can’t we just start a classic EHM league and all be friends?

 

[Rangers in 7]

Buch looks great

 

[Levitate]

I'm gonna be interested in what he has to say in a Russian language interview after the season is over. Kind of an interesting one from in the dog house to getting lots of time and producing and getting high praise from the coach. Makes me wonder what his perspective on it has been.

 

[duhmetreE]

5x5.

Yay or Nay?

Risk/Reward

 

[Rangers in 7]

5x5.

Yay or Nay?

Risk/Reward

yay

 

[NYRFANMANI]

During the season there was a phase were he slipped off severely. I thought, that's the sealing for him.

Past two months? Beasting, within the context of this team.

I think he bought into Quinn's philosophy and system and it shows on the ice.

Seems more physical to me, got bigger. This is not the end.

 

[UnSandvich]

5x5.

Yay or Nay?

Risk/Reward

I'd try to drop the AAV a bit, but absolutely yay to a long-term deal.

 

[UnSandvich]

Another 2 points today. He's really turned it on since the deadline.