Player Discussion Pavel Buchnevich Part V

[EdJovanovski]

Well Kuznetsov is 6'2 and over 200 lbs. It doesn't hurt developing under the shadow of Ovechkin and Backstrom either.

Panarin seems more like Buchnevich's size though I might be off with that. Pavel is very skinny. He was stronger in his second season though and hopefully we'll see him continue to get bigger and stronger.

Head injuries can absolutely derail a player's progress. Both Panarin and Kuznetsov are constantly in on and attacking the net all the time. If Buch is going to replicate what those guys are doing he's going to have to do much the same.

Perhaps Buch will develop under the shadow of Kovy
Panarin is 5'11" 168lbs, Buch is 6'2" 191lbs

 

[eco's bones]

Perhaps Buch will develop under the shadow of Kovy
Panarin is 5'11" 168lbs, Buch is 6'2" 191lbs

If I were to guess Artemi is a little bigger and Pavel a little lighter than that. Getting to the net more is Pavel's road to success. It's the road to success for most all of the best forwards. Kovalchuk could certainly help him and I'm on board with signing him as long as it doesn't go beyond 3 years.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

In no way, shape, or form is Buch an 80 point player...

Here’s the issue I don’t think you are taking into consideration.

First, Buchnevich is Russian

Second, the players mentioned in the quote to which you replied are not only forwards, but they are also Russian forwards.

Could Buchnevich reach the ceiling of a similar body size and age forward who is from one of any the nations on Earth?

Yes, but the players mentioned are good and Russian, and with the lack of a Russsian Bias [that I’ve alluded to frequently] next season pretty much means Buch will be on par or greatly exceed their stats.

Now had they said Buch could be as good as the same age Canadian forward who has nothing to do with him, I would be a little leery since the Russian bias doesn’t effect Canadians.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Here’s the issue I don’t think you are taking into consideration.

First, Buchnevich is Russian

Second, the players mentioned in the quote to which you replied are not only forwards, but they are also Russian forwards.

Could Buchnevich reach the ceiling of a similar body size and age forward who is from one of any the nations on Earth?

Yes, but the players mentioned are good and Russian, and with the lack of a Russsian Bias [that I’ve alluded to frequently] next season pretty much means Buch will be on par or greatly exceed their stats.

Now had they said Buch could be as good as the same age Canadian forward who has nothing to do with him, I would be a little leery since the Russian bias doesn’t effect Canadians.

 

[chosen]

He got 43pts in 74gp this year under AV, I'd be shocked if he doesn't hit 50 next year. I really think he will be as good as Panarin/Kuznetsov

If he becomes Panarin/Kuznetsov, the Rangers will be legit contenders. Personally, I doubt he reaches their level, but who knows?

 

[kovazub94]

If he becomes Panarin/Kuznetsov, the Rangers will be legit contenders. Personally, I doubt he reaches their level, but who knows?

Agree. It’s not out of question but to reach their level Buchnevich would need to reach another plateau in his development. However just continuing with his current development pace the Rangers should have a legitimate top6, as in 1st/2nd line twinner, similar in contribution to Detroit’s Kozlov (yup, I wanted it to be a Russian) in Red Wings recent glory days.

 

[lilphildub]

Panarin age 19 KHL: 40gp 21pts
Panarin age 20 KHL: 59gp 31pts
Buchnevich age 19 KHL: 48gp 30pts
Buchnevich age 20 KHL: 58gp 37pts

Kuznetsov age 21 NHL: 17gp 9pts
Kuznetsov age 22 NHL: 80 gp 37pts
Buchnevich age 21 NHL: 41gp 20pts
Buchnevich age 22 NHL: 74gp 43pts

By every metric Buchnevich has been ahead of Panarin & Kuznetsov at every stage of their development so far. I think people are being pessimistic or are tempering expectations to avoid being letdown. Watch some footage of Panarin & Kuzy playing when they were younger and you'll see they were nowhere near polished at this age either. Buchnevich has elite hockey IQ and makes the nicest/smartest passes I've seen a Ranger make in years, he consistently makes impossible breakout passes that send players on breakaways, gorgeous no look passes from behind the net, etc. He has great hands, a rocket of a shot, and a lot of the tools to be a great player, the main issue he has is confidence which leads him to make the safe plays, not use his shot enough, and make him play neutered. He was the only Ranger to come out and speak his mind about AV after the season ended and completely reaffirmed the idea that he was playing afraid because of him. I think we're going to see a huge leap for Buch this season under a new coach

All you used was points. Not by "every metric" lol. Also I'm not sure if Panarin is a good comparison because he's more of a goal scorer than Buch will ever be imo. Kuzy is definitely closer to what he can become though. Just like most young players coming in consistency is the issue. I think his passing ability is his greatest strength but I still think Zucc is a better passer. He's had a lot more and nicer passes over the years. He took a nice step improving his forecheck and hockey defensive IQ. His strength was definitely up from the year before. I know that he's a playmaker but I want to see him use his shot more. If he sticks with ZBad and Kreider for most of the year again I can see him in the high 50s. Which is great at his age and will only get better. Its just when he's away from those two, can he become the facilitator of a line? I think the new coach will reveal a lot and will have to allow Buch to be himself and be patient when his play goes stagnant

 

[Rangers in 7]

All you used was points. Not by "every metric" lol. Also I'm not sure if Panarin is a good comparison because he's more of a goal scorer than Buch will ever be imo. Kuzy is definitely closer to what he can become though. Just like most young players coming in consistency is the issue. I think his passing ability is his greatest strength but I still think Zucc is a better passer. He's had a lot more and nicer passes over the years. He took a nice step improving his forecheck and hockey defensive IQ. His strength was definitely up from the year before. I know that he's a playmaker but I want to see him use his shot more. If he sticks with ZBad and Kreider for most of the year again I can see him in the high 50s. Which is great at his age and will only get better. Its just when he's away from those two, can he become the facilitator of a line? I think the new coach will reveal a lot and will have to allow Buch to be himself and be patient when his play goes stagnant

your post makes no sense, the guy is doing a comparison of players who are very good now and how they compared to buch at the same age? i dont know what other stats you need to look at

this board is all obsessed with obtaining talent thats all we ever talk about, yet you have a player in buch who outperformed two STARS in this league at their respected age

some of you people need their heads examined, im not saying buch will turn into either of those players but based on similar players he has all the potential to be a star

and why are you comparing him to zucc who is 7 or 8 years older??

btw only that first line was directed to you @pdogfizzle

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Panarin age 19 KHL: 40gp 21pts
Panarin age 20 KHL: 59gp 31pts
Buchnevich age 19 KHL: 48gp 30pts
Buchnevich age 20 KHL: 58gp 37pts

Kuznetsov age 21 NHL: 17gp 9pts
Kuznetsov age 22 NHL: 80 gp 37pts
Buchnevich age 21 NHL: 41gp 20pts
Buchnevich age 22 NHL: 74gp 43pts

By every metric Buchnevich has been ahead of Panarin & Kuznetsov at every stage of their development so far. I think people are being pessimistic or are tempering expectations to avoid being letdown. Watch some footage of Panarin & Kuzy playing when they were younger and you'll see they were nowhere near polished at this age either. Buchnevich has elite hockey IQ and makes the nicest/smartest passes I've seen a Ranger make in years, he consistently makes impossible breakout passes that send players on breakaways, gorgeous no look passes from behind the net, etc. He has great hands, a rocket of a shot, and a lot of the tools to be a great player, the main issue he has is confidence which leads him to make the safe plays, not use his shot enough, and make him play neutered. He was the only Ranger to come out and speak his mind about AV after the season ended and completely reaffirmed the idea that he was playing afraid because of him. I think we're going to see a huge leap for Buch this season under a new coach

This is bad. This is like saying Jonathan Drouin was more polished than Nate Mackinnon that year in Halifax when they were drafted

 

[lilphildub]

your post makes no sense, the guy is doing a comparison of players who are very good now and how they compared to buch at the same age? i dont know what other stats you need to look at

this board is all obsessed with obtaining talent thats all we ever talk about, yet you have a player in buch who outperformed two STARS in this league at their respected age

some of you people need their heads examined, im not saying buch will turn into either of those players but based on similar players he has all the potential to be a star

and why are you comparing him to zucc who is 7 or 8 years older??

btw only that first line was directed to you @pdogfizzle

Because points don't always tell the whole story and can be easily cherry picked. Artem Anisimov with NYR at 21 had 28 points and then at 22 had 44 points. Does that mean he'll be worse than Artem Anisimov?

Also I wasn't comparing Zucc and Buch. I just didn't agree with "makes the nicest/smartest passes I've seen a Ranger make in years". When Zucc has been making nicer passes more consistently while Buch has been here and for years...

 

[Inferno]

Buchnevich, imho, has 2 things going against him.

1)He's not an elite skater. Hes an average to above average NHL skater for this current state of the NHL. 15 years ago he'd be incredible..now..he's average.

2)He's so slight. Incredibly easy to take the puck off his stick on teh boards because hes just not physically strong enough against the bigger defenseman.

so he's kinda caught in no mans land physically. Usually the guys who suck on the boards are fast and agile. or the guys who arent fast and agile are super strong. He's neither.

The skill, iq, its all there. He can be a 50-60 point player i think. I just dont think he's got the physical tools (as of now) to be any better.

time will tell.

 

[2014nyr]

being honest, if you're watching these final 4 teams, how many people see buch being a guy that can play in a top 6 on any one of these teams at this pace/physicality level? Of the 4 teams, the only remotely comparable guy would be kuznetsov - but he has a gear buch has never shown at any level, so it would be pretty surprising to see that develop at this point.

he's got a nice skillset, but the differentiating quality he'd need to substantiate the high end offensive creator expectations of some is just not there. he's a good skater but hasn't shown great explosion at any level really, his edges/balance are good but not notable, his vision/hands are above average but certainly not game changing and he almost never attacks 1 on 1 to create off that because he doesn't have the skillset to beat most dmen, so he delays and cuts across the slot which at some point he will most likely get someone suspended a long time and himself murdered. and his shot is the best breakout pass in the league.

i really had some hopes for this kid but personally i've gotten to a point where i don't see a differentiating skill or skillset that will allow him to play a roll that adds value when he's not contributing offensively. nothing would make me happier than to eat proverbial crow on this evaluation but i just dont see where he fits in the lineup on a good nhl team.

 

[LORDE]

But AV is gone so he’ll surely be a 100 pt player now & the cure for cancer will not be far behind.

#magicbullet

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

being honest, if you're watching these final 4 teams, how many people see buch being a guy that can play in a top 6 on any one of these teams at this pace/physicality level? Of the 4 teams, the only remotely comparable guy would be kuznetsov - but he has a gear buch has never shown at any level, so it would be pretty surprising to see that develop at this point.

he's got a nice skillset, but the differentiating quality he'd need to substantiate the high end offensive creator expectations of some is just not there. he's a good skater but hasn't shown great explosion at any level really, his edges/balance are good but not notable, his vision/hands are above average but certainly not game changing and he almost never attacks 1 on 1 to create off that because he doesn't have the skillset to beat most dmen, so he delays and cuts across the slot which at some point he will most likely get someone suspended a long time and himself murdered. and his shot is the best breakout pass in the league.

i really had some hopes for this kid but personally i've gotten to a point where i don't see a differentiating skill or skillset that will allow him to play a roll that adds value when he's not contributing offensively. nothing would make me happier than to eat proverbial crow on this evaluation but i just dont see where he fits in the lineup on a good nhl team.

That’s all well and good, but I hope you realize you’re talking about a 22 year old 2nd year player.

You know how many points Kuznetzov had as a 22 year old? 37.

I can’t disagree that Buchnevich will need to get stronger and smarter with the puck, but he has time to improve upon these things. If he were 25 and these issues were still prevelant, I’d be a lot more worried.

 

[Rangers in 7]

That’s all well and good, but I hope you realize you’re talking about a 22 year old 2nd year player.

You know how many points Kuznetzov had as a 22 year old? 37.

I can’t disagree that Buchnevich will need to get stronger and smarter with the puck, but he has time to improve upon these things. If he were 25 and these issues were still prevelant, I’d be a lot more worried.

this is something that pisses me off more then anything, people complain about buch like hes 27 already and has been in this league for 6 years

unless your name is crosby, ovechkin, laine, mcdavid you dont come to the nhl and dominate in your first few seasons

he wasnt drafted in the top 10, hes already more productive then like 85% of the players drafted ahead of him in the '13 draft

 

[kovazub94]

this is something that pisses me off more then anything, people complain about buch like hes 27 already and has been in this league for 6 years

unless your name is crosby, ovechkin, laine, mcdavid you dont come to the nhl and dominate in your first few seasons

he wasnt drafted in the top 10, hes already more productive then like 85% of the players drafted ahead of him in the '13 draft

That’s all well and good, but I hope you realize you’re talking about a 22 year old 2nd year player.

You know how many points Kuznetzov had as a 22 year old? 37.

I can’t disagree that Buchnevich will need to get stronger and smarter with the puck, but he has time to improve upon these things. If he were 25 and these issues were still prevelant, I’d be a lot more worried.

Exactly how I feel.

I also do not understand evaluations of players' performance based on periods where it was clearly impacted due to coming back from an injury.

 

[UnSandvich]

this is something that pisses me off more then anything, people complain about buch like hes 27 already and has been in this league for 6 years

unless your name is crosby, ovechkin, laine, mcdavid you dont come to the nhl and dominate in your first few seasons

he wasnt drafted in the top 10, hes already more productive then like 85% of the players drafted ahead of him in the '13 draft

Just checked the draft. Outside of the Top 10, only Domi, Wennberg, Mantha, Burakovsky, Duclair, Andrighetto have more points. All have played at least 35 more games, assuming my math is correct

 

[Rangers in 7]

Just checked the draft. Outside of the Top 10, only Domi, Wennberg, Mantha, Burakovsky, Duclair, Andrighetto have more points. All have played at least 35 more games, assuming my math is correct

i did a quick check before i posted but i believe you are correct....burakovsky has played something like 80 more games then him and personally outside the top 10 id only consider mantha over buch

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Just checked the draft. Outside of the Top 10, only Domi, Wennberg, Mantha, Burakovsky, Duclair, Andrighetto have more points. All have played at least 35 more games, assuming my math is correct

I would assume he has a higher PPG than Bura, Duke, and Ghetto, though.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think Buch has the size and skills to be a 75 point scorer BUT you can say that about a 100 NHL players that will never break 60 points. Its like in the NBA there are guys that can score 25 points on any given night off the bench that are not even considered capable starters. The difference between the occasional 25 point scorer and the 25 point per game for a season scorer in the NBA is not usually about their skills. Its motor, work ethic, and consistency. Buch could score 45 for the next 3 seasons and then have something click down the road where he breaks out to 70. It is impossible to predict with any degree of certainty.

 

[chosen]

this is something that pisses me off more then anything, people complain about buch like hes 27 already and has been in this league for 6 years

unless your name is crosby, ovechkin, laine, mcdavid you dont come to the nhl and dominate in your first few seasons

he wasnt drafted in the top 10, hes already more productive then like 85% of the players drafted ahead of him in the '13 draft

Add to that list these players that are all arguably better than Buch at a younger age: (not necessarily an indicator of the future)

• Matthews
• Eichel
• Pastrnak
• Barkov
• Marner
• Boeser
• Barzal
• Rantanen
• Monahan
• Draisaitl
• Nylander
• Tkachuk
• Provorov
• Keller
• Point
• Aho
• Dubois
• Werenski

 

[Rangers in 7]

Add to that list these players that are all arguably better than Buch at a younger age: (not necessarily an indicator of the future)

• Matthews
• Eichel
• Pastrnak
• Barkov
• Marner
• Boeser
• Barzal
• Rantanen
• Monahan
• Draisaitl
• Nylander
• Tkachuk
• Provorov
• Keller
• Point
• Aho
• Dubois
• Werenski

This might be the most useless post ever made on hfboards

I mean really?

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Add to that list these players that are all arguably better than Buch at a younger age: (not necessarily an indicator of the future)

• Matthews
• Eichel
• Pastrnak
• Barkov
• Marner
• Boeser
• Barzal
• Rantanen
• Monahan
• Draisaitl
• Nylander
• Tkachuk
• Provorov
• Keller
• Point
• Aho
• Dubois
• Werenski

Color me surprised that guys taken with the 1st-5th overall picks (with the exception of like 1 or 2 guys on that list, maybe) turn out to be better players/more NHL ready players than guys taken in the 3rd round.

 

[Dijock94]

This guy was a 3rd round draft pick and still has crazy potential. I can’t believe the abuse this guy gets. You guys understand we drafted Adam Tambellini ahead of him right? Jeez there is no appreciation for any success on these boards. He has already outperformed his draft spot, and has shown flashes of star talent. What more do you want from a third round pick?

 

[Dijock94]

This guy was a 3rd round draft pick and still has crazy potential. I can’t believe the abuse this guy gets. You guys understand we drafted Adam Tambellini ahead of him right? Jeez there is no appreciation for any success on these boards. He has already outperformed his draft spot, and has shown flashes of star talent. What more do you want from a third round pick?