Player Discussion Pavel Buchnevich Part V

[eco's bones]

We had a guy from the Bahamas on our team a few years ago. Anything is possible.

The guy from the Bahamas was Andre Deveaux who actually grew up with Dan Girardi in Welland Ontario. Not a good hockey player by NHL standards. Just saying—not skilled, played a rough style—so-so fighter—caused a big uproar in one of the Swedish leagues about 3/4 years ago attacking another player in warmups—if I’m remembering correctly.

Ndur born in Nigeria—grew up in Toronto.

 

[Krams]

This culture in hockey where players are expected to toe the line, suppress any individuality and essentially be extensions of the coaching staff/public relations in front of the media needs to die.

 

[Machinehead]

The guy from the Bahamas was Andre Deveaux who actually grew up with Dan Girardi in Welland Ontario. Not a good hockey player by NHL standards. Just saying—not skilled, played a rough style—so-so fighter—caused a big uproar in one of the Swedish leagues about 3/4 years ago attacking another player in warmups—if I’m remembering correctly.

Ndur born in Nigeria—grew up in Toronto.

That's it, no more Welland.

They're out.

 

[Machinehead]

This culture in hockey where players are expected to toe the line, suppress any individuality and essentially be extensions of the coaching staff/public relations in front of the media needs to die.

I keep trying to pop your clown's balloons by clicking on them like in Roller Coaster Tycoon.

No success so far.

 

[Rempe73]

We had one

You mean Wolski?

 

[Rempe73]

This culture in hockey where players are expected to toe the line, suppress any individuality and essentially be extensions of the coaching staff/public relations in front of the media needs to die.

I completely agree. I can't think of the word, but I know exactly what you mean. I guess there's this "tradition" in hockey where you have to act and do things in a certain manner, unlike basketball, soccer, or football.

 

[kovazub94]

I completely agree. I can't think of the word, but I know exactly what you mean. I guess there's this "tradition" in hockey where you have to act and do things in a certain manner, unlike basketball, soccer, or football.

Corporate culture

 

[Fvital92]

I hate AV even more after watching this.

 

[UnSandvich]

I hate AV even more after watching this.

Could've been a much longer video if we had a competent coach

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I can see it already

-if he becomes 60+ point player next year...See AV was holding him back

-if he doesn't become 60+ point player...AV ruined kids development

 

[Fvital92]

I can see it already

-if he becomes 60+ point player next year...See AV was holding him back

-if he doesn't become 60+ point player...AV ruined kids development

He would be a 60 point player this season with top 6 5v5 ice time.

 

[chosen]

I can see it already

-if he becomes 60+ point player next year...See AV was holding him back

-if he doesn't become 60+ point player...AV ruined kids development

Hope Buch pots 50 next year, but if he never becomes the great player many believe he will become, the notion that one coach derailed his career, will no doubt be spouted by some.

There are many stupid theories in sports. The one that a specific coach turned a potentially great young player into having a bad career is one of the more stupid.

 

[chosen]

This culture in hockey where players are expected to toe the line, suppress any individuality and essentially be extensions of the coaching staff/public relations in front of the media needs to die.

In his autobiography, Bobby Orr said he didn't know if he could play in today's NHL because of the suppression of individual creativeness.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I can see it already

-if he becomes 60+ point player next year...See AV was holding him back

-if he doesn't become 60+ point player...AV ruined kids development

Yup. It's always AVs fault. The fact that Jesper Fast, Mats Zuccarello, Chris Kreider, Derick Brassard, Oscar Lindberg, Brady Skjei, Kevin Hayes and JT Miller are improved while AV was coaching doesn't matter. See, they developed despite that. I guess we will never know, but some people are acting as if all these players would have been better without AV. It's BS.

Dylan McIlrath failed to develop due to his own actions, injuries etc. But yeah, of course it's AVs fault. No, McIlrath was waived by 3 NHL teams in a single season. He just never developed into the player he was expected to be.

I am glad AV is gone, because we need a new coach and go in a different direction but the hate the guy gets is too much. You can't blame him for the things that go wrong and then not give him credit for the things that go right.

 

[eco's bones]

First part of the season Buch played mostly with Zibanejad and Kreider and they were a good (not great....but good) line. Buch was getting into the corners he was getting in on the goal crease--taking shots from areas he could score from. After his concussion he was more reluctant to go into the corners and when he took shots (which he did less often) they were mostly from the tops of the circles and out and he stopped scoring goals....at the same time AV was playing him with linemates who were lesser scoring threats. So it's not a surprise that his numbers tanked in the second half. AV's decision making had something to do with that but it's also up to an offensive player to put himself in positions that take advantage of the skill he possesses. Buch is not the first player who has been leery of going into the more combative areas of the ice after a head injury. Zibanejad had that issue earlier in the year but eventually got over it. Mika is also a bigger, stronger guy. Which is why Pavel needs to not only only get stronger but he's also going to have to frequent himself more in those danger areas below the circles. These are areas where skilled players accumulate a great many of their points from. Pavel will not become a 50 point player if it's territory he can't or won't claim.

Hopefully he does because he could become a really fine player--perhaps a legit 1st line player.

 

[lilphildub]

I get that Buchnevich was great with Kreider and Zbad but so was everyone. With Fast having as much success with those two it makes me want to see Buch prove that he's more than a passenger. Fast outperformed him in even strength points and was just as successful possession wise when with Kreider and Zbad. What makes Buchnevich better than Fast at this current time? I think Buch has a lot more to show and will eventually be better offensively but idk if I see anything that says he's better right now. Interested to see if anyone can show me different

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I get that Buchnevich was great with Kreider and Zbad but so was everyone. With Fast having as much success with those two it makes me want to see Buch prove that he's more than a passenger. Fast outperformed him in even strength points and was just as successful possession wise when with Kreider and Zbad. What makes Buchnevich better than Fast at this current time? I think Buch has a lot more to show and will eventually be better offensively but idk if I see anything that says he's better right now. Interested to see if anyone can show me different

I’m not sure I agree with this because after firing AV, there is no longer a Russian bias, so Buch should be earning or at least finishing very close to capturing his first Art Ross Trophy.

Fast on the other hand is player who does a lot of the thankless jobs for a team, but in all fairness , Fast is not Russian, so his stats were not effected by the Russian bias when it was here.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Hope Buch pots 50 next year, but if he never becomes the great player many believe he will become, the notion that one coach derailed his career, will no doubt be spouted by some.

There are many stupid theories in sports. The one that a specific coach turned a potentially great young player into having a bad career is one of the more stupid.

He got 43pts in 74gp this year under AV, I'd be shocked if he doesn't hit 50 next year. I really think he will be as good as Panarin/Kuznetsov

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

In his autobiography, Bobby Orr said he didn't know if he could play in today's NHL because of the suppression of individual creativeness.

It was the “old boys club” suppression of Bobby’s politically infused scat jazz he wanted to share during the post game interviews that accelerated his knee injuries.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He got 43pts in 74gp this year under AV, I'd be shocked if he doesn't hit 50 next year. I really think he will be as good as Panarin/Kuznetsov

I don't see it.

He lacks the explosiveness and elusiveness of the bolded. I fully expect a 50+ point season out of him next year, but I'm not sure how much higher his ceiling is than that.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He got 43pts in 74gp this year under AV, I'd be shocked if he doesn't hit 50 next year. I really think he will be as good as Panarin/Kuznetsov

In no way, shape, or form is Buch an 80 point player...

 

[Harbour Dog]

He got 43pts in 74gp this year under AV, I'd be shocked if he doesn't hit 50 next year. I really think he will be as good as Panarin/Kuznetsov

Strongly disagree.

Buch could turn out to be a perennial 55-65 point player, but those guys get game-planned against and still dominate when they're on the ice.

Whole 'nother tier.

 

[kovazub94]

First part of the season Buch played mostly with Zibanejad and Kreider and they were a good (not great....but good) line. Buch was getting into the corners he was getting in on the goal crease--taking shots from areas he could score from. After his concussion he was more reluctant to go into the corners and when he took shots (which he did less often) they were mostly from the tops of the circles and out and he stopped scoring goals....at the same time AV was playing him with linemates who were lesser scoring threats. So it's not a surprise that his numbers tanked in the second half. AV's decision making had something to do with that but it's also up to an offensive player to put himself in positions that take advantage of the skill he possesses. Buch is not the first player who has been leery of going into the more combative areas of the ice after a head injury. Zibanejad had that issue earlier in the year but eventually got over it. Mika is also a bigger, stronger guy. Which is why Pavel needs to not only only get stronger but he's also going to have to frequent himself more in those danger areas below the circles. These are areas where skilled players accumulate a great many of their points from. Pavel will not become a 50 point player if it's territory he can't or won't claim.

Hopefully he does because he could become a really fine player--perhaps a legit 1st line player.

If AV remained NYR coach I’d worry about long term impact on Buch use and therefore development. However there’s no way I will put a blame on how Buch’s career turns out on AV’s influence through two injuries ridden seasons.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Panarin age 19 KHL: 40gp 21pts
Panarin age 20 KHL: 59gp 31pts
Buchnevich age 19 KHL: 48gp 30pts
Buchnevich age 20 KHL: 58gp 37pts

Kuznetsov age 21 NHL: 17gp 9pts
Kuznetsov age 22 NHL: 80 gp 37pts
Buchnevich age 21 NHL: 41gp 20pts
Buchnevich age 22 NHL: 74gp 43pts

By every metric Buchnevich has been ahead of Panarin & Kuznetsov at every stage of their development so far. I think people are being pessimistic or are tempering expectations to avoid being letdown. Watch some footage of Panarin & Kuzy playing when they were younger and you'll see they were nowhere near polished at this age either. Buchnevich has elite hockey IQ and makes the nicest/smartest passes I've seen a Ranger make in years, he consistently makes impossible breakout passes that send players on breakaways, gorgeous no look passes from behind the net, etc. He has great hands, a rocket of a shot, and a lot of the tools to be a great player, the main issue he has is confidence which leads him to make the safe plays, not use his shot enough, and make him play neutered. He was the only Ranger to come out and speak his mind about AV after the season ended and completely reaffirmed the idea that he was playing afraid because of him. I think we're going to see a huge leap for Buch this season under a new coach

 

[eco's bones]

Well Kuznetsov is 6'2 and over 200 lbs. It doesn't hurt developing under the shadow of Ovechkin and Backstrom either.

Panarin seems more like Buchnevich's size though I might be off with that. Pavel is very skinny. He was stronger in his second season though and hopefully we'll see him continue to get bigger and stronger.

Head injuries can absolutely derail a player's progress. Both Panarin and Kuznetsov are constantly in on and attacking the net all the time. If Buch is going to replicate what those guys are doing he's going to have to do much the same.