Player Discussion Patrik Laine: ruining the tank

[waitin425]

Are you a professional athlete? The impact of the flu on someone with a regular job is vastly different from its effect on someone whose work requires high physical demands.

I'm not. I know a couple former ones though. I'll ask them about illness for a team and whether they knew anyone who gamed the system for "time off".

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

give the guy break

when you miss work for a few days. are you faking or sick?

Team has shown they can win without him for the time being , not the end of the world , Laine is our little luxury anyways

 

[Frankenheimer]

Woah! Easy there. I am taking a shit kicking for being slightly concerned about a 10 day flu absence. I've never missed work for 10 days because of a flu, but apparently some have here and there is nothing to be concerned about. We shouldn't even discuss it. In fact it is alarmist and offensive to talk about concerns for a player.

I hope he is just fine and comes back roaring at the same pace he had at the end of 2024, and that I am proven to be an idiot.

I think it depends on the line of work. In professional sports, you can be replaced, and unless you perform better than your replacement, you're better off recovering until fully ready.

10 days for a flu is not excessive especially if its a gastro and you end up losing some weight/muscle. Some jobs that don't require world class conditioning and physical strength can be peformed adequately at the tail end of a flu. The threshhold for a professional athlete is significantly higher, particularly in Montreal where fans are ready to go for the jugular when you're not performing well. So yeah, better to be in optimal condition before hitting the ice for the habs.

 

[InsideLaine]

Seems more and more like the Columbus game broke Laine. 0+1 in 4 games with just 4 shots on goal since going back to Columbus and now sitting out for the 4th straight time. That's 8 straight games of basically nothing from Laine. Hate to say it but this might be a situation were both Laine and @thebus88 were right. Laine was right about Columbus and the terrible mindset that the team had when it comes to winning and loosing, while bus might be right that Laine is just getting by because he has one of the best shots of all time and pretty much nothing else...

I agree on the first part, which is the effect of the Columbus game. To me it seems like Laine maybe fell back, at least momentarily now, to the mental health struggles which he hoped he was free from. Nothing uncommon about that though, it happens, and it takes time to bounce back.

Maybe he has the flu as well. Maybe he is feeling fatigued due his brain having to work overtime in order to handle the additional stress from the Columbus-hassle. And yes, it can happen.

I will not guess any more specific details, but I definitely feel for him. I myself have struggled with anxiety for over a decade, which then brought depression and extreme fatigue for the past few years. Was finally diagnosed with ADHD, and after receiving the correct medication for it the fatigue and the depression disappeared. Anxiety stayed but became a tad easier to deal with.

Im not trying to diagnose Laine, only saying that the issues he is dealing with might affect him more than him or others thought. He is also very young when it comes to dealing with e.g. mental health issues. Here's to hoping that he can find ways to minimize the negative effects of mistakes, failure, not reaching his own expectations etc.

 

[Marioesque]

Team has shown they can win without him for the time being , not the end of the world , Laine is our little luxury anyways

Exactly. And that's what excites me a lot here. This team is now showing it's a solid playoff candidate, you don't beat so many top teams in a row by chance. So now we have a playoff bound young team that's capable of challenging the other top teams.

This reminds me a lot of the situation Laine found himself in with Tappara in Finland. Top level team, he came in and played 3rd line minutes in regular season (mind you he was 16 and it's a great feat). In playoffs he broke the scoring record, was MVP and team won the championship. His unicorn shot decided every playoff series, one against my favorite team. I couldn't even be mad, because I was watching evolution of hockey. I was excited.

Now he's playing with the best offensive defenseman he has ever played with, someone who draws attention and can find Laine in space. That's going to amount to so much. Especially on PP, but you can get more from him if you surround him with top talent 5 on 5 as well.

 

[VT]

Team has shown they can win without him for the time being , not the end of the world , Laine is our little luxury anyways

But:

1 win against Avs
1 win against Nucks, what are in crisis
1 win against Caps

1 loss against Chicago

Compare shots versus goals.

How many games do you think you can win with an AHL player on the fourth line and one of the Heineman/Armia/Gallagher (+Newhook) trio on the second line? Especially if Newhook doesn't have a very good shot and Dach is just wondering who to pass to?

Or do you think you can play with 11 forwards forever? You have extremely tough games ahead of you, you need a quality second line, especially if Slafkovský alternates good games with bad ones according to unknown holidays. And if you don't ruin your top third and fourth lines.

 

[Marioesque]

But:

1 win against Avs
1 win against Nucks, what are in crisis
1 win against Caps

1 loss against Chicago

Compare shots versus goals.

How many games do you think you can win with an AHL player on the fourth line and one of the Heineman/Armia/Gallagher (+Newhook) trio on the second line? Especially if Newhook doesn't have a very good shot and Dach is just wondering who to pass to?

Or do you think you can play with 11 forwards forever? You have extremely tough games ahead of you, you need a quality second line, especially if Slafkovský alternates good games with bad ones according to unknown holidays. And if you don't ruin your top third and fourth lines.

They have effectively shown that the depth can compete.

The 2nd line was awful, but now Dach is showing clear signs of coming back. Laine is a 1st line talent and will elevate Dach even more. I don't feel Newhook should be there.

 

[HHel]

I have to put my tinfoil hat on and have a little snacks, when I read this thread.

 

[HuGort]

I don't think Laine stable enough to go through a deep playoff run. If he did it be a fluke. Playoffs usually are more physical. Refs keep whistle in their pockets more. He seems to go down easier than most players. Because of his shot he's going to be a target. Of big heavy mobile defensemen

 

[Mulletman]

I agree on the first part, which is the effect of the Columbus game. To me it seems like Laine maybe fell back, at least momentarily now, to the mental health struggles which he hoped he was free from. Nothing uncommon about that though, it happens, and it takes time to bounce back.

Maybe he has the flu as well. Maybe he is feeling fatigued due his brain having to work overtime in order to handle the additional stress from the Columbus-hassle. And yes, it can happen.

I will not guess any more specific details, but I definitely feel for him. I myself have struggled with anxiety for over a decade, which then brought depression and extreme fatigue for the past few years. Was finally diagnosed with ADHD, and after receiving the correct medication for it the fatigue and the depression disappeared. Anxiety stayed but became a tad easier to deal with.

Im not trying to diagnose Laine, only saying that the issues he is dealing with might affect him more than him or others thought. He is also very young when it comes to dealing with e.g. mental health issues. Here's to hoping that he can find ways to minimize the negative effects of mistakes, failure, not reaching his own expectations etc.

You should start going to the gym and lifting heavy shit, that will help. And look into your diet. Stop eating sugar and excessive carbohydrates. And if you really want to make some change you'll want to grow a mullet. It's not a coincidence that many of the greatest men in history has had a mullet. Hell even in hockey the top 2 guys on the all time points list had mullets.

 

[Mulletman]

you don't beat so many top teams in a row by chance

Chance is a hell of a thing. I once hit black 9 times in a row playing roulette. It happens...

 

[Lshap]

Chance is a hell of a thing. I once hit black 9 times in a row playing roulette. It happens...

A roulette spin is a single event governed by pure luck. It makes no difference who spins it.

A hockey game is a large sample size of thousands of bounces and dozens of shots, generated by elite athletes. A lucky bounce will happen. Players get hot and cold. But overall, the results are 100% dependant on the skill of the players. The better team always wins.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

But:

1 win against Avs
1 win against Nucks, what are in crisis
1 win against Caps

1 loss against Chicago

Compare shots versus goals.

How many games do you think you can win with an AHL player on the fourth line and one of the Heineman/Armia/Gallagher (+Newhook) trio on the second line? Especially if Newhook doesn't have a very good shot and Dach is just wondering who to pass to?

Or do you think you can play with 11 forwards forever? You have extremely tough games ahead of you, you need a quality second line, especially if Slafkovský alternates good games with bad ones according to unknown holidays. And if you don't ruin your top third and fourth lines.

I don't know but I'm certainly not gonna cry over Laine being made out of glass , not like he's our *Guy* , he's our luxury mercenary for now , we are obviously better with him than without him but this isn't like we are losing Suzuki , Hutson, Matheson or Montembeault here..


Let's see how Laine ends the season

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I think it depends on the line of work. In professional sports, you can be replaced, and unless you perform better than your replacement, you're better off recovering until fully ready.

10 days for a flu is not excessive especially if its a gastro and you end up losing some weight/muscle. Some jobs that don't require world class conditioning and physical strength can be peformed adequately at the tail end of a flu. The threshhold for a professional athlete is significantly higher, particularly in Montreal where fans are ready to go for the jugular when you're not performing well. So yeah, better to be in optimal condition before hitting the ice for the habs.

Agree with the latter half of your post.

However, there is no such thing as a "gastro" flu, also commonly called the "stomach flu". Influenza is a respiratory illness that is in no way linked to gastrointestinal symptoms that could lead to weight/muscle loss. Some may experience a loss of appetite that could result in minimal weight loss or forms of mild gastrointestinal symptoms as a result of a high fever but that is it.

If Laine did not get a flu shot it is possible that he may experience severe symptoms that could keep him out of the lineup for close to two weeks. I think this management group are very wary of being judgmental with Patrick and are simply continuing with the supportive role that they have embraced since acquiring him.

Keeping him away from the team and being supportive of his circumstance is the right move with little risk as opposed to strong arming him into the lineup and exposing teammates to influenza.

The fact that this team shows genuine care and concern for it's players is a major factor in the positive environment that is allowing the team to grow and flourish. The need for some to fans to chastise and ridicule Laine for something that they know nothing about says much more about their lack of civility and poor judgement than it does about any perceived flaws that they are projecting on to Laine.

 

[Calendal]

Just a reminder that pushing too hard while sick or before fully recovered can lead to damage to your heart. So everyone please take time to recover as adviced.

Laine is dealing with at least two other ailments (knee and shoulder) so risking it in a year when management is not committed to making a push seems like a bad idea

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

They have effectively shown that the depth can compete.

The 2nd line was awful, but now Dach is showing clear signs of coming back. Laine is a 1st line talent and will elevate Dach even more. I don't feel Newhook should be there.

Newhook has a very hard shot and you are misinterpreting stats from actuality in order to reach that ill conceived conclusion.

Newhook absolutely has the skating and shooting tools to do some damage. I think his hands are perhaps not where they need to be to take advantage of these tools as well as he just hasn't quite found his niche in the offensive game at the NHL level. I think he needs to use his speed to create his own shot rather than looking to dish it as much as he does. The problem is they use him as a zone entry machine where he is accustomed to using his speed to set up possession rather than to attack the net.

When he finds a better balance between passing and shooting and figures out what angles to take and where to cut/pull up he will start scoring more. He gets into trouble when he pulls the puck into traffic where his hands and ability to attack a defenders triangle are not at the level of a top six NHL forward. Alex just hasn't quite been able to figure out how to best marry the different strong points of his game into a cohesive package. Once he does he will feel as though he has more of an identity and a more clearly defined role that he can thrive in.

I see him as a smaller version of Josh Anderson with more offensive upside. Much like Josh has done this season, Alex will need to accept a slightly different chair than he may have initially believed that he should be in and to his surprise he likely will come closer to the player that he wants to be.

 

[Dagistitsyn]

Newhook has a very hard shot and you are misinterpreting stats from actuality in order to reach that ill conceived conclusion.

Newhook absolutely has the skating and shooting tools to do some damage. I think his hands are perhaps not where they need to be to take advantage of these tools as well as he just hasn't quite found his niche in the offensive game at the NHL level. I think he needs to use his speed to create his own shot rather than looking to dish it as much as he does. The problem is they use him as a zone entry machine where he is accustomed to using his speed to set up possession rather than to attack the net.

When he finds a better balance between passing and shooting and figures out what angles to take and where to cut/pull up he will start scoring more. He gets into trouble when he pulls the puck into traffic where his hands and ability to attack a defenders triangle are not at the level of a top six NHL forward. Alex just hasn't quite been able to figure out how to best marry the different strong points of his game into a cohesive package. Once he does he will feel as though he has more of an identity and a more clearly defined role that he can thrive in.

I see him as a smaller version of Josh Anderson with more offensive upside. Much like Josh has done this season, Alex will need to accept a slightly different chair than he may have initially believed that he should be in and to his surprise he likely will come closer to the player that he wants to be.

A smaller Josh Anderson isn't really a good thing.
They do have a few things in common, speed and horrible hockey IQ.
Except Anderson is a bigger body with the same speed that plays physical this year and actually finishes his checks, brings energy, can stand up for his team when needed (Beat Wilson and Trouba this year), been great on the penalty kill.

Though he is definitely overpaid and should be on the contract Newhook is on.

Newhook played with our two best goal scorers for a large period and it still took him nearly half a season to record his first assist. He is an overrated, one dimensional player. For as much hate as Anderson gets, I take him over Newhook. Can not wait for Demidov to come over to bump Newhook from the top 6, hopefully forever. Heineman could do it right now and we'd be better off, but they don't want to split up that line he's on since they've been consistently a menace on the forecheck and spending time in the ozone.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

A smaller Josh Anderson isn't really a good thing.
They do have a few things in common, speed and horrible hockey IQ.
Except Anderson is a bigger body with the same speed that plays physical this year and actually finishes his checks, brings energy, can stand up for his team when needed (Beat Wilson and Trouba this year), been great on the penalty kill.

Though he is definitely overpaid and should be on the contract Newhook is on.

Newhook played with our two best goal scorers for a large period and it still took him nearly half a season to record his first assist. He is an overrated, one dimensional player. For as much hate as Anderson gets, I take him over Newhook. Can not wait for Demidov to come over to bump Newhook from the top 6, hopefully forever. Heineman could do it right now and we'd be better off, but they don't want to split up that line he's on since they've been consistently a menace on the forecheck and spending time in the ozone.

Newhook should have better numbers than he does. I mean it makes absolutely no sense that he went two or three months without an assist.

But yeah, at some point you have to wonder why he's not putting up points. I still think he can be a good offensive player but better suited to the 3rd line.

 

[Redux91]

So is he still ruining the tank orrrrr can we lay off him a little lol

 

[Kennerback]

Newhook should have better numbers than he does. I mean it makes absolutely no sense that he went two or three months without an assist.

But yeah, at some point you have to wonder why he's not putting up points. I still think he can be a good offensive player but better suited to the 3rd line.

He’s not been helping us offensively but he sometimes provokes things with his speed and in man on man defense his skating can keep up with anyone.

 

[JianYang]

Newhook should have better numbers than he does. I mean it makes absolutely no sense that he went two or three months without an assist.

But yeah, at some point you have to wonder why he's not putting up points. I still think he can be a good offensive player but better suited to the 3rd line.

When I tune in, he usually makes a nifty play or two in a game that leads to scoring chances. But the finish hasn't been there, so I'm wondering if that's just what he is or how much of it is just bad luck?

He's certainly got the ability to have good rushes and he does a good job of getting shots off quickly in the slot when he gets passes. It looks like he knows what he's doing but its just not getting converted.

 

[Rapala]

ones sick here at work, hacking for 2 weeks. crazy

They are wearing a mask to protect you right...

 

[Whalers Fan]

A roulette spin is a single event governed by pure luck. It makes no difference who spins it.

A hockey game is a large sample size of thousands of bounces and dozens of shots, generated by elite athletes. A lucky bounce will happen. Players get hot and cold. But overall, the results are 100% dependant on the skill of the players. The better team always wins.

Disagree. In a low scoring game, there are many factors that can result in an "upset" -- a hot goaltender, officiating, weird bounces of the puck, tiredness due to travel, adrenaline from a home crowd, etc. Does anyone believe that the 1980 US Olympic hockey team was the better team over the Soviets?

 

[ahmedou]

In the mix it's Laine!

Laine is on the mix!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

When I tune in, he usually makes a nifty play or two in a game that leads to scoring chances. But the finish hasn't been there, so I'm wondering if that's just what he is or how much of it is just bad luck?

He's certainly got the ability to have good rushes and he does a good job of getting shots off quickly in the slot when he gets passes. It looks like he knows what he's doing but its just not getting converted.

It reminds me so much of Chris Higgins. I think a big part of it was being saddled with w Dach who was so bad in the first half. That didn’t help. Still though, he should have a lot more points.

Hopefully the 2nd half goes better than the first.