Why didn't Gaudreau play with Touch, but moved to center where Jenner already was, so Laine who was far enough away had to fly it to the space between Touch and Thompson? How Johnny played defense, I won't comment on. By the way, if anyone thinks Patrik could have play with his stick in the front of the net, let try it. Also interested in Gavrikov's reaction to not starting after Touch. Plus Jenner didn't run after Thompson too fast.
Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)
- Thread starter Viqsi
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Yeah that should have been Jenner coming back with Tage and tying his stick, but for some reason Jenner was too far behind. Johnny could have maybe attempted to harrass Thompson but I don't know if he had any chance of doing that due to size difference and the speed he came in.
Laine could have maybe dove and hit the stick of TT at the moment the puck comes to him and saved it. But I don't expect that even from selke candidates, so I don't expect that from him either.
Watching the 2nd replay, you can see that Gaudreau was actually attempting to “step up” on Thompson at the blue line. It’s done very half assed and softly, and very similar to the play/effort defensively/without the puck we see from Laine constantly.Laine was the furthest CBJ player away from his own net when Tuch received the pass and you're seriously implying that the goal is in any way his fault? You REALLY need to rethink some of this stuff.
But, Gaudreau’s momentum is going the other way as Thompson is going past him. Gaudreau doesn’t block the pass (what he seemingly attempts) and, more importantly, doesn’t slow down Thompson really in any way. THIS is where/when TT crosses over directly towards Laine, and ends up VERY close to him entering the zone.
Gaudreau should be expected to do more before Thompson got past him, but, it would be nearly impossible to turn/pivot and catch TT after stepping up at the blue line like that with not much speed.
This is where the “miscommunication” comes in. The thing is, there is NO COMMUNICATION. Laine doesn’t seem to look up at either of his teammates OR Thompson. There’s a small chance exaggeration there as imagine he can see TT there, but, he doesn’t skate like it.
Gaudreau clearly thought Laine was going to continue skating and the puck (and Thompson) ended up on that side of the ice. Laine coild have easily made the play to break up the pass with MINIMAL effort if he just kept moving his feet to get back. He wasn’t “hustling” in any way.
Gaudreau stepped up at the blue line and I’m not sure people are seeing that after watching the 1st part of the video. There’s a saying, “play the puck, or play the body”. It was an extremely weak attempt and he should have done more to slow TT down, but, at that point, IT IS the responsibility of another forward to try to get back.
Also in the replay, Darren Pang mentions that it was all after a good pass and a high and wide shot by Laine that caused the odd man break the other way. I wonder what Laine’s per/60 numbers are on shots like that…
I would like you guys to dispute the points I have made about the actual on ice play in question before just dismissing my opinion. Quite frankly, it doesn’t seem like I’m the 1 whose emotions or personal feelings of a player are clouding opinions and perceptions.
Great point on Gavrikov. Regular complaint of mine on him and I wanted to point it out. Left it alone, because I’m a noted Gavrikov “hater” as well. That guy out on the “far side” isn’t/wasn’t a threat at all. As I felt it needed to be pointed out, Gaudreau was actually stepping up at the blue line.
Yes, the CBJ hockey team have become borderline LITERALLY unwatchable over the last few years.
This is where I disagree. Thompson is THE DANGER. The only threat. Those defensemen that aren’t even on screen are less of a threat than that other forward on the far side.
Where do Jenner and Gaudreau go in this hypothetical scenario that Laine goes to where he should have and blocked that pass?? Wouldn’t THEY cover the trailing defensemen??
No, Laine is supposed to cover the trailing defenseman on his side. Thompson becomes a danger in the situation because neither Jenner or Gaudreau can slow him down. Once he's broken through there with no resistance he's alone with the goalie. If Laine drifted to the middle when it's already worked by the C and LW, would have opened up both defensemen coming in late, because Johnny was already drifting towards Tage, just did nothing with it. It was a 3 on 5, CBJ had the numbers to cover everyone, but TT changed it by breaking through middle with no resistance.
The problem in this situation is not Laine, he's playing the position he should be playing and defending the correct threat. TT creates a threat in the middle by rushing through Jenner and Gaudreau. that's what creates this situation. Laine isn't close enough to react in any realistic way, the crease should not be defended by him in this situation.
They'd be showing him video and asking "what were you doing here when you're supposed to be over there", and he'd be like "There's this guy on the internet who says I should forget about my position and just be there for every situation where someone breaks through center". And they'd be like "oh yeah that guy. Welp, I guess you need to keep running around then and just reacting to everything happening around you".
Maybe your argument is more about team strategy, not Laine. You'd want them to play Collapsing in the D zone? That would maybe explain what you'd want him to do differently here. I'd say the coaching maybe showed video of that goal to Jenner and Gaudreau afterwards but not to Laine, because he's not the culprit on that one.
I just don't think the chosen defensive strategy is up to him, or something you can play jazz with because that'll keep you on the bench. If you can't keep desired position and cover the guy you're supposed to cover, NHL is a tough league.
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Most/all of the ACTUAL best teams in the league pretty much are like that. Those are the team where player decisions and “set play” type strategy decisions by the coach are more important. Playoff type situations.Arguably one of Jenner or Gaudreau could have switched to take the point in that last scenario, since they've already been caught in back. But that requires that everybody make very good reads almost instantaneously, and... yeah, that's a bit rough. We have systems for this sort of thing because it's inherently confusing; if all folks could always Just Know and Do The Right Thing in those situations we wouldn't need coaches.
This team still couldn’t be much farther away from that, until I see otherwise. My entire point is that Larsen, or any other NHL coach, can’t be teaching these guys hockey fundamentals at this point.
It’s almost like we went from an OVERLY structured coach/“gameplan” to a coach that allowed the players the freedom to react and play using their instincts, and it shows that our current makeup of players are not capable of playing in either “system”….
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I suspect then that, once again, you're hunting for more unicorns than actually exist in the League.
Look carefully. Gaudreau left the position, with his backchecking being horrendous, Jenner not pursuing, Laine blocked free ice. Bjork (47 is him) didn't play aggressive enough against Touch and Gavrikov against Thompson. Besides, why did Laine have to go in front of the net when there were two defensemen there. Here's a question to the d-men and Gaudreau.
I know Patrik isn't a Selke Trophy candidate, but to blame him for not being in on every defensive mistake is pretty silly.
If Laine was so horrible defensively you'd imagine he'd be the most scored on forward in the team. Instead for the past two seasons he has the lowest rate of GA/60 of the team (21-22 & 22-23 combined). His underlying defensive metrics are not great, but neither are they bad, they are pretty average. Combined with the offensive stuff he's the most net positive player on the team for the second year in a row.
This is just non-sense ignoring 100+ games of results and focusing on a single play like it matters more. You can find plenty of plays where he makes poor defensive choices or executes a D-zone play poorly, but the same is true for 9 out of 10 players who give similar or better offensive value. Comparing to similar offensive players, I'd say his back checking is very good and his overall defense is OK. He's not a well rounded defensive player, but for a guy expected to the drive the offense and/or score goals, he's doing pretty well in what I consider probably the most important facets of D-game for that role - back checking and covering passing lanes / breaking up plays when the other team is transitioning.
And perhaps most importantly he seems to have a good attitude about it, in fact at times I'd like him to think more offense first because with his finishing ability playing a bit higher event hockey might not be such a bad thing, but it also depends on what the coach wants.
This is just non-sense ignoring 100+ games of results and focusing on a single play like it matters more. You can find plenty of plays where he makes poor defensive choices or executes a D-zone play poorly, but the same is true for 9 out of 10 players who give similar or better offensive value. Comparing to similar offensive players, I'd say his back checking is very good and his overall defense is OK. He's not a well rounded defensive player, but for a guy expected to the drive the offense and/or score goals, he's doing pretty well in what I consider probably the most important facets of D-game for that role - back checking and covering passing lanes / breaking up plays when the other team is transitioning.
And perhaps most importantly he seems to have a good attitude about it, in fact at times I'd like him to think more offense first because with his finishing ability playing a bit higher event hockey might not be such a bad thing, but it also depends on what the coach wants.
alas, the vicious cycle continues
- thebus posts negative comment (usually about laine)
- posters reply, point out flaw in negative comment
- thebus doubles down, asks for evidence disputing their point << YOU ARE HERE
- more posters jump in, provide a big ol' mountain of evidence
- thebus either ignores those comments or starts arguing about something else
- "brad larsen's body language is proof that the whole team hates patrik laine!" (point refuted, no reply)
- "patrik laine never injured his ankle, he's just lazy and weak" (point refuted, no reply)
- "patrik laine is slow and weak like a child" (cue lots of comments showing big guys going fast but looking slow, no reply)
- "the blue jackets didn't change anything this offseason" (they changed a lot, actually; pivoted to weird conspiracy-talk about the previous coaching staff)
Farmboy Patty
Senior Hockey Analyst
- Nov 2, 2017
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Although I enjoy reading this thread, it’s kind of sad that most of it seems to revolve around one posters irrational takes and other posters having/needing to counter them with rational countering posts. It’s a never ending cycle and I’ve given up on it.
I just don’t understand the discrepancy between posts with interesting and knowledgeable thoughts in some threads and crusade like negative focus on specific players, in this case Laine, that give me the impression that all that hockey knowledge goes out the window as soon as the conversation is about certain players
I just don’t understand the discrepancy between posts with interesting and knowledgeable thoughts in some threads and crusade like negative focus on specific players, in this case Laine, that give me the impression that all that hockey knowledge goes out the window as soon as the conversation is about certain players
One of the best identifiers of who is supposed to be who is social media. So I looked to Instagram. In addition to Bean, Robinson, Gaudreau (but sitting next to him), Chinakhov (who he sits next to) and Marchenko he is followed by the entire team, including Gudbranson, Provorov and some wives, girlfriends, including Gudbranson's wife. I also looked at some former players. He's followed by Atkinson, Bjorkstrand, Jones, Domi. Honestly I haven't looked any further. So much for the lectures on body language.
I very apologize in advance to Patrik and those I mentioned, but I'm tired of hearing "the universe hates Laine" talk.
P.S. @thebus88 hates Laine with the hatred of an inquisitor. So I've definitely stopped paying attention to his views on Laine.
Sebastian Aho was drafter as a LW, and as I recall played center only in Finland U20 national team. Also started as a winger in NHL, and transitioned to C after few seasons.
Just from that same team, Mikko Rantanen was a winger and has since played #1 C in NHL successfully. Hintz started as winger in NHL too I think.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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When McKinnon is injured, Rantanen plays C in first line
mattihp
Registered User
Makes sense, they are on the same CSGo team
OldGoaltender
Registered User
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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I have a take on why that is but whatever, the coach is gone, all hail the new coach
He probably followed the good old "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything".Just imagine Babcock shouting "rush B cyka blyat" on a CSGO server
So I learned the name of the third game
, although I'll soon forget that one, I don't like them. P- Status
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